7 college basketball fans living in the past

[BGleas]

To me, Indiana fans living in the past is less about just wanting to return to winning and more about how "holding on to the past" prevents the program from moving forward. I understand the thought process that Indiana isn't 'like everywhere else' and that IU is unique from everywhere else and the tradition is a big part of the selling points. I understand that and I don't disagree with it. 

With that said, I think Indiana and the fans hold onto to the past to a point where it can sometimes be a detriment. First, this has nothing to do with recruiting one and dones, that's not what I'm talking about whatsoever. But, programs like Duke, UNC, UK and KU have done a great job of continually honoring their past players, teams and traditionals while also moving their programs forward with things that appeal to the current environment and trends. 

Things like new uniforms, names on the jerseys (not saying IU has to do this), crazy alternate uniforms (it doesn't all have to be uniform based, it's just what I could think of while typing this), the type of game day atmosphere stuff, etc., etc. I'm not advocating for all of those things, I'm just saying the thought of many of those things throw a vocal segment of the IU fan base into a massive tizzy. At those other schools they've been doing those things that appeal to current players for years, while also maintaining a strong connection to honoring their past. It's a balancing that I think IU is at least perceived as not really managing well. 

I think nationally IU is viewed as "old school" and a sort of uncool. I do think Tom Crean made strides on improving this balance (IU did add some cool alternate uniforms during his tenure and made some other changes) and I think Archie is continuing to carry that torch with a lot of the facility upgrades and player amenities he's pushed for.  

It seems to me that sometimes IU and it's fans cling to the past as opposed to honoring it but also moving forward. 

 

[rico]

22 minutes ago, BGleas said:

To me, Indiana fans living in the past is less about just wanting to return to winning and more about how "holding on to the past" prevents the program from moving forward. I understand the thought process that Indiana isn't 'like everywhere else' and that IU is unique from everywhere else and the tradition is a big part of the selling points. I understand that and I don't disagree with it. 

With that said, I think Indiana and the fans hold onto to the past to a point where it can sometimes be a detriment. First, this has nothing to do with recruiting one and dones, that's not what I'm talking about whatsoever. But, programs like Duke, UNC, UK and KU have done a great job of continually honoring their past players, teams and traditionals while also moving their programs forward with things that appeal to the current environment and trends. 

Things like new uniforms, names on the jerseys (not saying IU has to do this), crazy alternate uniforms (it doesn't all have to be uniform based, it's just what I could think of while typing this), the type of game day atmosphere stuff, etc., etc. I'm not advocating for all of those things, I'm just saying the thought of many of those things throw a vocal segment of the IU fan base into a massive tizzy. At those other schools they've been doing those things that appeal to current players for years, while also maintaining a strong connection to honoring their past. It's a balancing that I think IU is at least perceived as not really managing well. 

I think nationally IU is viewed as "old school" and a sort of uncool. I do think Tom Crean made strides on improving this balance (IU did add some cool alternate uniforms during his tenure and made some other changes) and I think Archie is continuing to carry that torch with a lot of the facility upgrades and player amenities he's pushed for.  

It seems to me that sometimes IU and it's fans cling to the past as opposed to honoring it but also moving forward. 

 

How about retiring or honoring jersey #'s from the all-time greats?

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, rico said:

How about retiring or honoring jersey #'s from the all-time greats?

Love it! That's a cool way to honor the past and connect it with the future. You don't even have to actually retire the #, maybe have the number in the rafters and a list of the retired players names under the # in the rafters. So someone wearing #11 for example would look up into the rafters each game and be striving to have their name added to that jersey in the rafters under Isaiah and Yogi's names. 

I should add to my previous post that the renovations to Assembly Hall (ie the entryway) has also done a great job of connecting and honoring the past/tradition. But those things should suffice and not prevent IU from doing creative things as well to push forward. 

[slojoe]

13 hours ago, Sark said:

He played for Puerto Rico.

No fair trick question!  Cut it out Sark😃!

[Hoosierhoopster]

26 minutes ago, BGleas said:

To me, Indiana fans living in the past is less about just wanting to return to winning and more about how "holding on to the past" prevents the program from moving forward. I understand the thought process that Indiana isn't 'like everywhere else' and that IU is unique from everywhere else and the tradition is a big part of the selling points. I understand that and I don't disagree with it. 

With that said, I think Indiana and the fans hold onto to the past to a point where it can sometimes be a detriment. First, this has nothing to do with recruiting one and dones, that's not what I'm talking about whatsoever. But, programs like Duke, UNC, UK and KU have done a great job of continually honoring their past players, teams and traditionals while also moving their programs forward with things that appeal to the current environment and trends. 

Things like new uniforms, names on the jerseys (not saying IU has to do this), crazy alternate uniforms (it doesn't all have to be uniform based, it's just what I could think of while typing this), the type of game day atmosphere stuff, etc., etc. I'm not advocating for all of those things, I'm just saying the thought of many of those things throw a vocal segment of the IU fan base into a massive tizzy. At those other schools they've been doing those things that appeal to current players for years, while also maintaining a strong connection to honoring their past. It's a balancing that I think IU is at least perceived as not really managing well. 

I think nationally IU is viewed as "old school" and a sort of uncool. I do think Tom Crean made strides on improving this balance (IU did add some cool alternate uniforms during his tenure and made some other changes) and I think Archie is continuing to carry that torch with a lot of the facility upgrades and player amenities he's pushed for.  

It seems to me that sometimes IU and it's fans cling to the past as opposed to honoring it but also moving forward. 

 

Starting with the point that there was a great deal of effort by one poster above to downgrade IU while purportedly saying he is an IU fan (not buying that transparently tired game), and that anyone could put this article together when times get slow (as also pointed out above), I agree on uni's etc. but have a slightly different take.

We're still living in the past, to an extent, as a program because we're still dealing with the RMK-enraptured fans who are still angry over how things went down with RMK, and the fan base is still somewhat split over that.

As a fanbase IU fans hold its coaches, like Crean, to a different standard -- that's OK, but when as a fanbase you ridicule your own coach, and won't accept any coach because RMK always would be better, it just looks bad. As a fanbase, there's a segment that does still live in the shadow of RMK, imo. No one is good enough. CAM isn't good enough. Why aren't we running a motion offense, you know, like RMK? (Leaving aside that that motion offense is in fact a thing of the past.) RMK would move the ball, he wouldn't have players just "pound the air" out of the ball, the dribble drive offense is stupid, CAM, Crean, aren't really good coaches. Just wait and see - I know they'll fail!

That kind of mentality is  unfortunate, imo, it makes us look bad as a program, and it is living in the past. Some people need to move on. 

Jerseys and facilities matter to young recruits, but winning, consistency in coaching, NBA placement, TV time, NCAA exposure, etc. all matter to the recruits too.

We're moving in the right direction under CAM. As a fanbase, I'd hope we see the split continue to get narrowed, with the fanbase getting behind what CAM is building. Crean started things back with academics and exposure, we weren't 'back' but we were definitely (but not consistently) winning at a high level again. CAM has continued that with steady growth, and in his recruiting is consistently bringing defense, toughness, depth among positions and classes, kids who have a long track record of winning, from winning programs/cultures, and he's reconnecting IU well with high school coaches and AAU programs. We were clearly in the tourney this past year but for COVID.

We've got 3 straight Mr. Basketballs and growing depth. This is how you build a program, it generally isn't an overnight deal, but man it's pretty clearly moving in the right direction, and we should be looking ahead, not backwards.

[rico]

12 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Starting with the point that there was a great deal of effort by one poster above to downgrade IU while purportedly saying he is an IU fan (not buying that transparently tired game), and that anyone could put this article together when times get slow (as also pointed out above), I agree on uni's etc. but have a slightly different take.

We're still living in the past, to an extent, as a program because we're still dealing with the RMK-enraptured fans who are still angry over how things went down with RMK, and the fan base is still somewhat split over that.

As a fanbase IU fans hold its coaches, like Crean, to a different standard -- that's OK, but when as a fanbase you ridicule your own coach, and won't accept any coach because RMK always would be better, it just looks bad. As a fanbase, there's a segment that does still live in the shadow of RMK, imo. No one is good enough. CAM isn't good enough. Why aren't we running a motion offense, you know, like RMK? (Leaving aside that that motion offense is in fact a thing of the past.) RMK would move the ball, he wouldn't have players just "pound the air" out of the ball, the dribble drive offense is stupid, CAM, Crean, aren't really good coaches. Just wait and see - I know they'll fail!

That kind of mentality is  unfortunate, imo, it makes us look bad as a program, and it is living in the past. Some people need to move on. 

Jerseys and facilities matter to young recruits, but winning, consistency in coaching, NBA placement, TV time, NCAA exposure, etc. all matter to the recruits too.

We're moving in the right direction under CAM. As a fanbase, I'd hope we see the split continue to get narrowed, with the fanbase getting behind what CAM is building. Crean started things back with academics and exposure, we weren't 'back' but we were definitely (but not consistently) winning at a high level again. CAM has continued that with steady growth, and in his recruiting is consistently bringing defense, toughness, depth among positions and classes, kids who have a long track record of winning, from winning programs/cultures, and he's reconnecting IU well with high school coaches and AAU programs. We were clearly in the tourney this past year but for COVID.

We've got 3 straight Mr. Basketballs and growing depth. This is how you build a program, it generally isn't an overnight deal, but man it's pretty clearly moving in the right direction, and we should be looking ahead, not backwards.

I love the RMK take and it is true.  It is also true we are "stuck" in the mud with how RMK ran this program.  And that includes the uni's, retired numbers, no names on the back, etc.  Just the little things other than winning.

[milehiiu]

51 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Love it! That's a cool way to honor the past and connect it with the future. You don't even have to actually retire the #, maybe have the number in the rafters and a list of the retired players names under the # in the rafters. So someone wearing #11 for example would look up into the rafters each game and be striving to have their name added to that jersey in the rafters under Isaiah and Yogi's names. 

I should add to my previous post that the renovations to Assembly Hall (ie the entryway) has also done a great job of connecting and honoring the past/tradition. But those things should suffice and not prevent IU from doing creative things as well to push forward. 

Cook Hall has an interactive touch screen honoring former IUBB players, on top of what exists in Assembly Hall. Also Cook Hall has an interactive touch screen dedicated to entire former IU teams.  On top of that, there are pics of former players displayed just inside the entrance to Cook Hall.

[IowaHoosierFan]

The ideology of IU's leadership, fan base, faculty and student body has been fractured since the firing of Coach Knight.  You can bet that Duke, UNC, Kentucky and Kansas have a unified thought on the university and its basketball program.  From President to ball boy, they all believe the same thing.  Their basketball programs are their schools.  The same can be said for OSU, Alabama, LSU, and Clemson in football.  They work relentlessly to ensure that these programs are the university, even to the point of cheating (not saying we should cheat).  But they understand what drives students to choose their schools when selecting a college.  It drives everything.  Fans want to be a part of something, even if they are not a member of the team.  IU doesn't embrace its fans from a leadership standpoint in my opinion.  IU doesn't want to be a Basketball school like it used to.  it doesn't want to be a sports school at all from my standpoint.  They want to be just good enough but not to distract from the academics (which were as good then as it is now).  The leadership doesn't want another Coach Knight being king of their castle ever again.   And this is just basketball.  How we haven't managed to generate a national recognized football program is beyond me.

[rico]

47 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Cook Hall has an interactive touch screen honoring former IUBB players, on top of what exists in Assembly Hall. Also Cook Hall has an interactive touch screen dedicated to entire former IU teams.  On top of that, there are pics of former players displayed just inside the entrance to Cook Hall.

That is all fine and dandy...I want jerseys in the rafters in AH.

[rico]

56 minutes ago, Sark said:

I think you got a great deal right here, but I didn’t see any evidence that any poster isn’t an IU fan. On what basis do you make that accusation?

LOL...are you biting yourself in the "Sark Tank?"  Or is it "Snark Tank?"  Well whichever it is...your "IU fandom" puzzles me quite frankly.

[milehiiu]

28 minutes ago, rico said:

That is all fine and dandy...I want jerseys in the rafters in AH.

They would have to have names under the jerseys, since IU does not put names on jerseys. And multiple players have worn the same number over the years.  Personally, I prefer to use a state of the art method to honor former players.  Hanging uni's from the rafters is old school, IMHO. 

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

They would have to have names under the jerseys, since IU does not put names on jerseys. And multiple players have worn the same number over the years.  Personally, I prefer to use a state of the art method to honor former players.  Hanging uni's from the rafters is old school, IMHO. 

Well if they hang #11, Dackich probably would think it was for him.

[cybergates]

10 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

They would have to have names under the jerseys, since IU does not put names on jerseys. And multiple players have worn the same number over the years.  Personally, I prefer to use a state of the art method to honor former players.  Hanging uni's from the rafters is old school, IMHO. 

Maybe Mark Cuban can fund a hologram of IU legends program...

[milehiiu]

43 minutes ago, cybergates said:

Maybe Mark Cuban can fund a hologram of IU legends program...

I don't know about a hologram. However, as I was typing what I did. The Mark Cuban Center for media and technology in Assembly Hall did enter my mind.  It cost $5 million to build.  We have already seen what they can do.  Perhaps expanding that to projecting images of former players on McCracken Court, during time outs ?

[mrflynn03]

I would like to retain our traditions and not forget history but dammit I just want to win!  If some things have to change to do it go for it. I just want to experience a National Championship in my lifetime.  2002 was as close as it got. And what a heartbreaking moment.

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I would like to retain our traditions and not forget history but dammit I just want to win!  If some things have to change to do it go for it. I just want to experience a National Championship in my lifetime.  2002 was as close as it got. And what a heartbreaking moment.

The only change I don't want to see IU cheat to win.  We can change uniforms it anything like that but I don't want us to go the UK way.  I guess my viewpoint might be different than yours since I have seen 3 national championships

[IowaHoosierFan]

13 hours ago, IU Scott said:

The only change I don't want to see IU cheat to win.  We can change uniforms it anything like that but I don't want us to go the UK way.  I guess my viewpoint might be different than yours since I have seen 3 national championships

While i agree about the cheating for IU, i just don't think Kentucky cheats.  I think we so want them to be cheaters to make us feel better that they are so much more successful than us.  Kentucky has always been a basketball destination, so i don't think Cal cheats.  I don't think he needs too.

But that is just my opinion

[FKIM01]

11 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

While i agree about the cheating for IU, i just don't think Kentucky cheats.  I think we so want them to be cheaters to make us feel better that they are so much more successful than us.  Kentucky has always been a basketball destination, so i don't think Cal cheats.  I don't think he needs too.

But that is just my opinion

Oh I don't think there is any question Anthony Davis's family was paid and Eric Bledsoe's grades were "fixed", among other very shady things that have happened with Kentucky recruits (Terrence Jones' last minute flip, for example).  You can question how involved Teflon John was in each situation, but I have zero doubt he knows and doesn't discourage the cheating.

[IU Scott]

41 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

While i agree about the cheating for IU, i just don't think Kentucky cheats.  I think we so want them to be cheaters to make us feel better that they are so much more successful than us.  Kentucky has always been a basketball destination, so i don't think Cal cheats.  I don't think he needs too.

But that is just my opinion

Cal himself might not do it  but I would bet that they still cheat.  They have the culture of cheating for years and that does not go away.  They have the most NCAA major violations in the history of college sports so you think they just stopped when Cal go there.  Also Cal had left 2 other programs when violations occurred and vacated 2 final four appearances.

[FKIM01]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

...and violated 2 final four appearances.

He may have violated them as well, but I think you're looking for vacated.

Cal has a long history of being in the vicinity of a lot of smoke.  I'm with you...he didn't turn into a choirboy when he arrived at UK.

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

He may have violated them as well, but I think you're looking for vacated.

Cal has a long history of being in the vicinity of a lot of smoke.  I'm with you...he didn't turn into a choirboy when he arrived at UK.

Yes vacated and I changed it.  I never buy the excuse that he does not have to cheat.  Coach K does not have to as well but it appears that he turned to the dark side.  Coach K won a championship in 2010 with good college players yet he turned to going after the one and done players to keep up with others.

[FKIM01]

1 minute ago, Sark said:

I think you’re right on the mark, and it’s a symptom of the living in the past mindset that the article discussed. Many IU fans have fluffed up our accomplishments by emphasizing that we’ve won without cheating, while everyone else breaks the rules. In the last 20 years, it’s been a way to explain and even justify the decline of the program. They never have proof, they add 1 and 1 and get 11, they knit together all kinds of links and claim it’s “proof”, but they never have proof. Good and accurate post.

 

As usual, you're being ridiculous...and delusional as well.  They'd love you in the UK forums.

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

As usual, you're being ridiculous...and delusional as well.  They'd love you in the UK forums.

He is back to start more arguments even when he does not have a foot to stand on.  He had been shown many articles about coach K and Cal, yet he still argues that they don't cheat.  He is either naive or he is really a UK fan who is here to troll.

[milehiiu]

25 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Cal himself night not do it  but I would bet that they still cheat.  They have the culture of cheating for years and that does not go away.  They have the most NCAA major violations in the history of college sports so you think they just stopped when Cal go there.  Also Cal had left 2 other programs when violations occurred and vacated 2 final four appearances.

Cal has left a  very suspect trail  behind him. Everywhere he has gone. Back to UMass, when he expressed surprise that he knew nothing about Marcus Camby getting paid to go  there. Oh. And we won't talk about the prostitutes that were brought in for Camby while at UMass.  Then there is Memphis. And the curious thing about Derek Rose.

IMHO. Over time. Cal has gotten proficient at covering his tracks.... considering his history.

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Cal has left a trail of trash behind him. Everywhere he has gone. Back to UMass, when he expressed surprise that he knew nothing about Marcus Camby getting paid to go  there. Oh. And we won't talk about the prostitutes that were brought in for Camby while at UMass.  Then there is Memphis. And the curious thing about Derek Rose.

IMHO. Over time. Cal has gotten proficient at covering his tracks.... considering his history.

Also at UK with Bledsoe passing Algebra 2 without even taking Algebra 1.  Also some how he got his goal high enough to get into UK even though he had a lie gpa before.  Also the stories of Anthony Davis's father getting $200,000

I compare Cal to a mob boss where they order the hit but it never comes back to them.