7 college basketball fans living in the past

[BobSaccamanno]

Just now, Sark said:

Never said they were. What are the structural problems you see there?

I’m not going to write an essay on it but Indiana has access to tremendous in state basketball talent that is simply lacking in Nebraska for football.  They are in no position to go and get an Irving Fryar out of New Jersey as they once did.  Can they be good and maybe win the junior division?  Maybe at some point.  But it’s an unforeseeable leap to think they could beat anyone in the senior division, then go in the playoff and do any damage against the SEC or Clemson.  IU’s potential is far greater.  

Archie is suffering from a rebuild but he’s getting close to developing a sound roster that makes sense. Once it’s established—and I’d submit it just about is—and IU will be able to build on that much more easily year over year.  IU is handicapped in the sense we aren’t going to go and lease a home for Zion or buy a car and hand out cash like Kansas.  But we can get competitive kids that can compete.  We are still in the stage of building the foundation and almost all of the concrete has arrived.  

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Since I have not ever had to put someone on ignore on this board before could some tell me how to do it.  I looked for ways but I guess I can't find the ignore button.

Never mind I found out how to ignore Sark and it would be good if all of us do the same thing.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

Haven't found that ignore button yet? 😂😂😂

found it

[FKIM01]

It's refreshing...really cleaned up my feed!

[BobSaccamanno]

4 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

Don't bother. Her doesn't understand the nuances of the English language so he thinks "closer" is the same as "more recent." That they have a more recent championship is what he actually means.

Thanks.  I didn’t get that out of the post.  

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Thanks.  I didn’t get that out of the post.  

Earlier this week he said that Nebraska was closer to winning a championship.  Most people reading that would think he meant as of right now they have a better chance of winning.  I guess he meant they have won a championship most recently than we have yet I basketball has been in a championship game more recently.

[FKIM01]

30 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Earlier this week he said that Nebraska was closer to winning a championship.  Most people reading that would think he meant as of right now they have a better chance of winning.  I guess he meant they have won a championship most recently than we have yet I basketball has been in a championship game more recently.

That's really an odd way of looking at it...who really cares if it's 23 vs. 33 years since your national championship?  Either way, it's been awhile.  I'm much more interested in the current state of the program than exactly how many years it's been since IU Basketball's last national championship.  I feel blessed to have witnessed three.  Most fans at most schools (here's looking at you, toiletmakers) have never seen their team win one..  I agree though...I'm ready for another one.

I'll say this...I don't mind intelligent debate.  I have a grand total of four members on my ignore list and I'm not even sure if three of them are still active or even members here.  I have people I disagree with...some people a lot, but t's very rare when I feel like a member contributes so little as to be worthy of being ignored.

This is a good forum for a reason.  The moderation is fair and active.  Trolls don't last long and there's plenty of self-policing among the membership.  I try to be mostly respectful, but I don't mind calling out repeated ridiculousness when I see it.  Anyone who doesn't think that John Calipari has knowingly benefited from NCAA rules being broken is as willfully ignorant as the "just-win-baby!!!" UK administration that hired him.

[go_iu_bb]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

That's really an odd way of looking at it...who really cares if it's 23 vs. 33 years since your national championship?  Either way, it's been awhile.  I'm much more interested in the current state of the program than exactly how many years it's been since IU Basketball's last national championship.  I feel blessed to have witnessed three.  Most fans at most schools (here's looking at you, toiletmakers) have never seen their team win one..  I agree though...I'm ready for another one.

I'll say this...I don't mind intelligent debate.  I have a grand total of four members on my ignore list and I'm not even sure if three of them are still active or even members here.  I have people I disagree with...some people a lot, but t's very rare when I feel like a member contributes so little as to be worthy of being ignored.

This is a good forum for a reason.  The moderation is fair and active.  Trolls don't last long and there's plenty of self-policing among the membership.  I try to be mostly respectful, but I don't mind calling out repeated ridiculousness when I see it.  Anyone who doesn't think that John Calipari has knowingly benefited from NCAA rules being broken is as willfully ignorant as the "just-win-baby!!!" UK administration that hired him.

Yep, even 23 years ago is a generation. Only a small percentage of current players were alive in '97 and certainly don't remember it. None of the incoming recruits and high school players were born yet.

[BGleas]

This whole “show me proof, or it doesn’t exist” thing is nonsense. That’s not how corruption works. Corrupt people typically do everything in their power to cover tracks, hide proof and prevent people from knowing their corrupt. Cal and K aren’t just going to admit their corrupt.

A lot of people make a ton of money off of UK and Duke being good, including the NCAA which is the institution that’s supposed to “investigate” them. Even when the NCAA does investigate schools, they don’t have any real power to find anything. They have no supeana power to demand records or force people to admit anything or tell them the truth. 

That doesn’t mean the cheating isn’t happening. These kids are getting paid. Some are getting houses and cars for their families, etc.  We know it’s happening. 

On Cal specifically, I don’t buy that he doesn’t need to cheat at UK. Yes, UK is a power with tons of tradition, a huge spotlight and all of the amenities, but that sells itself when you’re recruiting again Iowa, Northwestern, Wake Forest, etc., etc., but that’s not who Cal is recruiting against. Cal is recruiting the elite of the elite against schools like Duke and KU. 

We know Duke players and KU players are getting paid, so people don’t think Cal has to compete against that? We know Anthony Davis got money from somewhere. We know Bledsoe had his grades messed with. 

Specific proof or not, it’s happening.  

[IU Scott]

To me cheating is in the culture at UK and it is not like they just stopped after 60 years of cheating.  A few years ago on another site someone posted all the major violations UK had and it was extensive.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Sark said:

Have never understood the “everyone cheats but I can’t prove and don’t care about facts” mentality. If people pointed a finger at IU, we’d sure be upset if they didn’t have proof, but some are willing to allege all sorts of things against others without any support. Never agreed with that hypocrisy.

That's ridiculous. We know there's corruption in college basketball. We know a sizable chunk of the top 100 are getting benefits that are against the rules and we know what schools those kids go to. We know of a handful of high major coaches that have been proven to have corruption in their programs (Pitino, Self, Wade, Sean Miller). We know that specific players at the schools (Duke and UK) that have been accused in this thread have been taken impermissible benefits. 

You act like fans are pulling these opinions out of thin air. There is enough smoke, evidence and proof to be able to make an educated guess that many of the top players that go to the top programs are getting what are currently deemed illegal benefits. 

And yes, I think players that have gone to IU have received impermissible benefits. I think Tom Crean was up to something when IU was having their second bad season in a row and then all of the sudden had Thon Maker and I believe Thomas Bryant attend the same game in late-Feb/early March (might have the date wrong), while also being in on Ray Kasongo (I think that was the name), while also eventually recruiting Billy Preston. So no, I wouldn't be mad or dumbfounded is someone accused IU. I don't think IU does it as deep or consistently as Duke, UK or KU, but I think IU has participated. 

My sister lives on the opposite side of the country than me. I don't have proof she ate breakfast today, but I can make a pretty educated guess that she did. 

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That's ridiculous. We know there's corruption in college basketball. We know a sizable chunk of the top 100 are getting benefits that are against the rules and we know what schools those kids go to. We know of a handful of high major coaches that have been proven to have corruption in their programs (Pitino, Self, Wade, Sean Miller). We know that specific players at the schools (Duke and UK) that have been accused in this thread have been taken impermissible benefits. 

You act like fans are pulling these opinions out of thin air. There is enough smoke, evidence and proof to be able to make an educated guess that many of the top players that go to the top programs are getting what are currently deemed illegal benefits. 

And yes, I think players that have gone to IU have received impermissible benefits. I think Tom Crean was up to something when IU was having their second bad season in a row and then all of the sudden had Thon Maker and I believe Thomas Bryant attend the same game in late-Feb/early March (might have the date wrong), while also being in on Ray Kasongo (I think that was the name), while also eventually recruiting Billy Preston. So no, I wouldn't be mad or dumbfounded is someone accused IU. I don't think IU does it as deep or consistently as Duke, UK or KU, but I think IU has participated. 

My sister lives on the opposite side of the country than me. I don't have proof she ate breakfast today, but I can make a pretty educated guess that she did. 

I think most IU fans would acknowledge that we did something wrong if their was this much smoke around our program.  Just look at the Sampson era and most IU fans was totally against the hire in the first place.  Then in that February when things started coming out most IU fans I saw was calling for Sampson's head.  I did not see many fans trying to justify it or trying to down play the problem.

[IUFLA]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That's ridiculous. We know there's corruption in college basketball. We know a sizable chunk of the top 100 are getting benefits that are against the rules and we know what schools those kids go to. We know of a handful of high major coaches that have been proven to have corruption in their programs (Pitino, Self, Wade, Sean Miller). We know that specific players at the schools (Duke and UK) that have been accused in this thread have been taken impermissible benefits. 

You act like fans are pulling these opinions out of thin air. There is enough smoke, evidence and proof to be able to make an educated guess that many of the top players that go to the top programs are getting what are currently deemed illegal benefits. 

And yes, I think players that have gone to IU have received impermissible benefits. I think Tom Crean was up to something when IU was having their second bad season in a row and then all of the sudden had Thon Maker and I believe Thomas Bryant attend the same game in late-Feb/early March (might have the date wrong), while also being in on Ray Kasongo (I think that was the name), while also eventually recruiting Billy Preston. So no, I wouldn't be mad or dumbfounded is someone accused IU. I don't think IU does it as deep or consistently as Duke, UK or KU, but I think IU has participated. 

My sister lives on the opposite side of the country than me. I don't have proof she ate breakfast today, but I can make a pretty educated guess that she did. 

And it's not like UK doesn't have the history of cheating dating all the way back to Rupp...

With that history, and the tainted success it led to, its not like they would become bastions of morale decency just because. 

And @Sark excusing away Calapari's "predicaments" at UMass and Memphis is laughable...again, leopards never change their spots...

 

[BobSaccamanno]

2 hours ago, Sark said:

IU’s football potential is far greater than Nebraska’s, or IU’s basketball potential is? In football, they’ve always recruited nationally, and continue to do so. That hasn’t changed at all.

Of course it has.  They aren’t getting the caliber of player they got nationally long ago.  It’s a tough sell to get the Irving Fryar type of athlete to go to Lincoln now.  And the elite player in-state is few and far between.  The notion that “nothing has changed” in terms of their ability to recruit nationally is on its face absurd.  

The point isn’t whether they can get a three star player from Texas to go to Nebraska.  They will get solid players.  I’m talking about big time, difference maker players.  It was quite different when you had Tom Osborne to sell and another with Scott Frost.  Turning that around is like turning around the Titanic.  It will be very difficult.  

 

[milehiiu]

25 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

And it's not like UK doesn't have the history of cheating dating all the way back to Rupp...

With that history, and the tainted success it led to, its not like they would become bastions of morale decency just because. 

And @Sark excusing away Calapari's "predicaments" at UMass and Memphis is laughable...again, leopards never change their spots...

 

Let's not forget that back in 1989. Kentucky was put on probation for three years.  And banned from post season play for two years by the NCAA.  As I said earlier in this thread. Breaking the rules is in Kentucky's DNA.  It has been going on for decades. 

[BGleas]

7 minutes ago, Sark said:

Since Archie is Sean’s brother and worked for him and since Cal is his mentor and like a family member, how many of his current or former players do you think we’ve cheated to get?

No idea. Nothing would shock me in college basketball, though I tend to feel that outside of Langford, Miller hasn't recruited a ton of kids that seem to be the getting paid type. I'm not making an accusation, but it wouldn't floor me if something came out at some point about Langford. 

I think you have your head buried pretty deep in the sand if you don't think there is pretty big cheating going on at the highest levels of college basketball. 

 

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

No idea. Nothing would shock me in college basketball, though I tend to feel that outside of Langford, Miller hasn't recruited a ton of kids that seem to be the getting paid type. I'm not making an accusation, but it wouldn't floor me if something came out at some point about Langford. 

I think you have your head buried pretty deep in the sand if you don't think there is pretty big cheating going on at the highest levels of college basketball. 

 

I think the difference in the fan bases is that if we found out Archie did something wrong we would want him gone. At places like UK their fans don't care if the coach cheats as long as they win.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I think the difference in the fan bases is that if we found out Archie did something wrong we would want him gone. At places like UK their fans don't care if the coach cheats as long as they win.

I tend to agree with that. Another example is KU fans applauding Bill Self basically giving the NCAA the middle finger. I don’t think IU would operate that way. IU would force their coach out. 

[IU Scott]

Just now, BGleas said:

I tend to agree with that. Another example is KU fans applauding Bill Self basically giving the NCAA the middle finger. I don’t think IU would operate that way. IU would force their coach out. 

When something came up last year and Romeo's name came up I was on here calling for Archie's head if he did something wrong.

[BDB]

[BGleas]

33 minutes ago, Sark said:

How much was Archie involved in cheating at Arizona?

I don’t know. 

[BGleas]

30 minutes ago, Sark said:

Scott and many believe Self is a serial cheater. How was IU able to compete with him to get RL? And since both are Addidas schools, what role did they play do you think?

You do know Kansas was mentioned in the NCAA investigation before Langford committed, right? It’s the same reason he eliminated Louisville. Just last week Langford’s Dad gave the answer to this question. 

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, Sark said:

What would you have expected him to say? There were plenty of rumors that TL had his hand out during RL’s recruitment, leading schools like Duke and UK to take a pass. Allegedly.

He didn’t have to say anything and he hadn’t until last week, it was the Langford’s track record. He did the same thing with Louisville. Scandal and they were out. 

Langford passed on UK and Duke, not the other way around. You’re out of your mind if you think UK and Duke passed because they’re squeaky clean. How do you explain Zion, Anthony Davis, Bledsoe, etc., etc,?

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

He didn’t have to say anything and he hadn’t until last week, it was the Langford’s track record. He did the same thing with Louisville. Scandal and they were out. 

Langford passed on UK and Duke, not the other way around. You’re out of your mind if you think UK and Duke passed because they’re squeaky clean. How do you explain Zion, Anthony Davis, Bledsoe, etc., etc,?

As for UK I heard that the Langford's did not like Cal when Romeo played for him in International play.  Also Romeo's final two schools were IU and Vanderbilt.

You must still be arguing with Sark, so do what I did and put him on ignore.  He is not worth it because he will never admit he is wrong.

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

As for UK I heard that the Langford's did not like Cal when Romeo played for him in International play.  Also Romeo's final two schools were IU and Vanderbilt.

You must still be arguing with Sark, so do what I did and put him on ignore.  He is not worth it because he will never admit he is wrong.

I’ve made it a point to never put anyone on ignore, though I do highly doubt he’s actually an IU fan, though admittedly I don’t have “proof”.