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This argument is asinine. The team can be younger than last season but still not be considered a young team. 

Last year's team graduated 2 seniors and lost to transfer a rising senior and a rising junior. Incoming are 4 freshman. 

Returning are players with a lot of experience. 2 upperclassmen with redshirt years. A redshirt sophomore (although Hunter's redshirt year didn't help him he is still old for his class now). A rising junior with 2 years of starting experience. A rising sophomore whip started all of last year while playing almost 30mpg.

So I'd say the team is younger with 15 seasons of experience returning versus 17 from last season. Neither of those count Hunter's redshirt season but if anyone wants to count that it doesn't change the difference between the two. Next year's team, while slightly "younger" will also be returning over 140 mpg versus 136 last season.

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6 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

This argument is asinine. The team can be younger than last season but still not be considered a young team. 

Last year's team graduated 2 seniors and lost to transfer a rising senior and a rising junior. Incoming are 4 freshman. 

Returning are players with a lot of experience. 2 upperclassmen with redshirt years. A redshirt sophomore (although Hunter's redshirt year didn't help him he is still old for his class now). A rising junior with 2 years of starting experience. A rising sophomore whip started all of last year while playing almost 30mpg.

So I'd say the team is younger with 15 seasons of experience returning versus 17 from last season. Neither of those count Hunter's redshirt season but if anyone wants to count that it doesn't change the difference between the two. Next year's team, while slightly "younger" will also be returning over 140 mpg versus 136 last season.

I would also point out that those 136 minutes returning for last season were skewed by Anderson and his almost 10 mpg average. His effective mpg was more like 1/2 that since he had a bunch of DNPCD. Also, Durham and Phinisee had more mpg the session before than they had last season.

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Justin Smith is clearly athletic, but his athleticism is overrated in terms of its basketball application. His vertical is obviously incredible, but his athleticism was reduced because of his lack of skill and his lack of motor. He probably would do great in combine type of setting, but his athleticism doesn’t usually translate to the game.

Basketball is a game where athleticism needs to be matched with skill and effort. For example, I can’t remember too many times where Smith used his athleticism to blow by a defender from the perimeter to get to the basket, or used his athleticism to sprint down the court for a track down block, or sprint down the court and beat guys down court for a fast break dunk. 

I rarely watched Smith and thought, “wow this guy is dominating with his athleticism”. He isn’t in Oladipo or Troy Williams class as a an athlete. I think Geronimo probably is, but that obviously remains to be seen. 

On the youth point, IU may be chronologically younger, but we only lost two regular rotation players. There can’t be many Power 5/6 schools that only lost two rotation players. Saying we lost 4 upperclassmen is a little disingenuous, given that Davis and Anderson hardly played.

We basically return 4 starters, as well as Hunter, Franklin and Thompson. I guess you can argue youth in that our best player is a sophomore and potentially our next best player is a freshmen, but overall we return a lot of minutes, starts and production. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Sark said:

No, it means we return production. We can do that and still get younger. Not sure how or why you continue to deny this fact. I realize you’re now trying to change the parameters so it’s clear you understand you were making an inaccurate point. As for the athleticism issue, you claimed Smith’s replacement was more athletic than he was, and you’ve continued to deny it even though it’s your own words and based so.ely on a picture and a highlight video. Lol.  Sorry, but you’re 0 for 2. 

 

 

I will fully admit that I was equating experience and age, you apparently are not equating them. We objectively return more experience this year than we did last year. I have no idea about the age of each team, but if there is a difference it isn't much. As far as minutes returned not equating to experience.... How do you figure? That's literally a measure of how much time those players played. What would you call that if not experience?

Now the question is why in the world are you more focused on age that experience? In what other setting has someone talking about college sports refered to the age of a team and meant the year they were born and not how much they've played?

As far as athleticism, you're so clearly wrong. You posted about it multiple times before I ever posted, it's right there for you or anyone else to verify. Then I simply asked how you're defining athleticism and you've refused to answer. From my perspective I don't find Justin to be any more athletic than Jordan so I'm curious what you're looking at to say otherwise. Can you enlighten me?

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32 minutes ago, Sark said:

I regularly mentioned we got younger, not older, and that’s unquestionably true. Not sure how you continue to deny this fact. As for athleticism, you made the claim that Geronimo is more athletic than Smith, yet you’ve only seen a highlight video of him and really have no way of knowing whether this is true or not. Have no idea why you continue to deny these facts, but you do.

First, there are no facts. It’s a subjective opinion. Can you prove that cinnamon is tastier than caramel? Same concept. I believe one thing, you believe another.

 I have read your crap for long enough to come to the conclusion that you are a legend in your own mind. Tired of your constant belittling of others and tired of your condescending attitude. 

Scott and I don’t always agree, but on you, I do. You only exist to create dissenting opinions. Not sure why you even bother posing as a supporter of IU

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21 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

First, there are no facts. It’s a subjective opinion. Can you prove that cinnamon is tastier than caramel? Same concept. I believe one thing, you believe another.

 I have read your crap for long enough to come to the conclusion that you are a legend in your own mind. Tired of your constant belittling of others and tired of your condescending attitude. 

Scott and I don’t always agree, but it on you, I do. You only exist to create dissenting opinions. Not sure why you even bother posing as a supporter of IU

I still don't know why the mods et him stay here.  Even since I put him on ignore I can see you guys arguing with him all the time.

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On 8/3/2020 at 11:42 AM, Sark said:

We lost probably the most athletic player on the team and our best defender and three other guys, one of whom played a lot, another of whom played some, and the last of whom played sparingly. They’ll be replaced by four newcomers, only one of whom is likely to log significant minutes. I know Miller wants us to “get older”, but we really just got younger, which means we took a big step back in experience. You almost always pay a near term price for that.

 

On 8/3/2020 at 6:13 PM, Sark said:

I regularly mentioned we got younger, not older, and that’s unquestionably true. Not sure how you continue to deny this fact. As for athleticism, you made the claim that Geronimo is more athletic than Smith, yet you’ve only seen a highlight video of him and really have no way of knowing whether this is true or not. Have no idea why you continue to deny these facts, but you do.

The first quote is your first response to me. Keep pretending you weren't talking about experience...the data says we did not get younger if you get means less experience as you defined it in your first response to me. 

My very first post in this thread was asking you how you're measuring athleticism. Do you agree that was my first post and you never answered that question? 

My second post in this thread asked you to define it again in the first sentence of the post. Only after asking you to define it multiple times did I assert my opinion that Jordan is more athletic. I'm open to a discussion that he's not but you've got to define your terms. 

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2 hours ago, Sark said:

We got younger as  team. I’ve consistently said this and it’s fact no matter how much you want to argue to the contrary. As for athleticism, you’ve never once seen Geronimo play but you consider him a better athlete than Smith. Again, that’s a fact. Why are you still trying to argue your way out of this? 

I literally quoted you contradicting your own point. It was the first point you made in our discussion and framed the conversation. 

I do consider Jordan a better athlete with limited information. You consider Justin a better athlete with the same Iimited information. Those are equally hard to prove positions, but you made the first claim. 

Just walk away. You've lost buddy. 

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1 hour ago, Sark said:

You’ve gone completely off the reservation with this one, making stuff up as you go. You’ve lost on all points, though at least you admitted your comment about JG was without any basis. Game, set, match. Lol.

Yes. I'm quoting you and pointing out you made a claim that I disagreed with based on the same amount of information. You've really bested me...

I've got data backing up my points and your own quotes.... You've got your vivid imagination. 

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As far as the "older" argument goes, I think you have to look at experience getting the minutes, and not overall roster experience. What counts is who's playing.

So if you assign a "years experience" number (1-Fr, 2-So, 3-Jr, 4-Sr and adding a year for Red Shirt status, because I think years in a college program is a better indicator of experience)

Last years starters (for the most part}

Fr (TJD 1) 

Jr (Justin 3)

Jr (Al 3)

So (Rob 2)

RS Jr (Joey 4)

Our main Starting lineup was at 13 so divided by 5 Starting lineup averaged 2.6 years in a college program.

Significant minutes (8+ MPG) played

Sr (Devonte 4)

RS So (Race 3)

RS Fr (Jerome 2)

Fr (Armaan 1)

Sr (De'Ron 4)

So (Damezi 2)

Reserves were at 16 also 2.6. If you take off Damezi (who didn't play much in the 2nd half of the season and De'Ron (who only averaged 8 MPG) you have 10 and 2.5

This years probable lineup (and we can argue this after we total up)...

So (TJD 2)

Sr (Al 4)

RS Sr (Joey 5)

Jr (Rob 3)

RS So (Jerome 3) 

We're at 17 and 3.4 years in a college program. Even if you replace Jerome with Kristian you're still at 15 and 3 years in a college program.

Off the bench

Fr (Kristian 1)

So (Armaan 2)

RS Jr (Race 4)

3 Fr (and I'm not going to go by minutes with them...They'll fight it out 3) 

We have 10...But I only think 4 players (if that) will get any significant minutes off the bench...

Discuss...

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12 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

As far as the "older" argument goes, I think you have to look at experience getting the minutes, and not overall roster experience. What counts is who's playing.

So if you assign a "years experience" number (1-Fr, 2-So, 3-Jr, 4-Sr and adding a year for Red Shirt status, because I think years in a college program is a better indicator of experience)

Last years starters (for the most part}

Fr (TJD 1) 

Jr (Justin 3)

Jr (Al 3)

So (Rob 2)

RS Jr (Joey 4)

Our main Starting lineup was at 13 so divided by 5 Starting lineup averaged 2.6 years in a college program.

Significant minutes (8+ MPG) played

Sr (Devonte 4)

RS So (Race 3)

RS Fr (Jerome 2)

Fr (Armaan 1)

Sr (De'Ron 4)

So (Damezi 2)

Reserves were at 16 also 2.6. If you take off Damezi (who didn't play much in the 2nd half of the season and De'Ron (who only averaged 8 MPG) you have 10 and 2.5

This years probable lineup (and we can argue this after we total up)...

So (TJD 2)

Sr (Al 4)

RS Sr (Joey 5)

Jr (Rob 3)

RS So (Jerome 3) 

We're at 17 and 3.4 years in a college program. Even if you replace Jerome with Kristian you're still at 15 and 3 years in a college program.

Off the bench

Fr (Kristian 1)

So (Armaan 2)

RS Jr (Race 4)

3 Fr (and I'm not going to go by minutes with them...They'll fight it out 3) 

We have 10...But I only think 4 players (if that) will get any significant minutes off the bench...

Discuss...

Earlier in this thread I did a similar post (except used 0,1,2,3 and +1 for RS to show college experience entering the season - didn't count Hunter's RS) that got completely ignored. Maybe yours will do better. 

Last year's team had a total of 2 more years experience which averages out to less than 0.2 years per player (maybe 6 games). Slightly younger but negligible consisting there is a bit more returning mpg.

I like that you broke it down into starters and reserves.

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On 8/3/2020 at 5:17 PM, go_iu_bb said:

This argument is asinine. The team can be younger than last season but still not be considered a young team. 

Last year's team graduated 2 seniors and lost to transfer a rising senior and a rising junior. Incoming are 4 freshman. 

Returning are players with a lot of experience. 2 upperclassmen with redshirt years. A redshirt sophomore (although Hunter's redshirt year didn't help him he is still old for his class now). A rising junior with 2 years of starting experience. A rising sophomore whip started all of last year while playing almost 30mpg.

So I'd say the team is younger with 15 seasons of experience returning versus 17 from last season. Neither of those count Hunter's redshirt season but if anyone wants to count that it doesn't change the difference between the two. Next year's team, while slightly "younger" will also be returning over 140 mpg versus 136 last season.

Sorry, just saw it...

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experience, returning minutes, and returning points are all more valuable than age.  The argument went on and on and on over semantics of the word "younger".  No one ever defined what younger is.  Is it strictly age which is what sark kept coming back to or experience related which is what kob kept coming back to.  

So, data is showing this years team will have more college experience returning.  anyone care to do the math on age?  Sark, why don't you since it was your side of the argument?

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7 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

experience, returning minutes, and returning points are all more valuable than age.  The argument went on and on and on over semantics of the word "younger".  No one ever defined what younger is.  Is it strictly age which is what sark kept coming back to or experience related which is what kob kept coming back to.  

So, data is showing this years team will have more college experience returning.  anyone care to do the math on age?  Sark, why don't you since it was your side of the argument?

Age would be a skewed indicator in my eyes...heck, Evan Boudreaux was, what, 59 last year? He'd throw off Purdue's whole number...

I did mean to ask @Stlboiler23 if Boudreaux was going to go start collecting SS now or wait til full retirement age...

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2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Age would be a skewed indicator in my eyes...heck, Evan Boudreaux was, what, 59 last year? He'd throw off Purdue's whole number...

I did mean to ask @Stlboiler23 if Boudreaux was going to go start collecting SS now or wait til full retirement age...

I believe he’s eligible but is going to wait until 70 to take it. So in 2 or 3 years I believe. 

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30 minutes ago, Sark said:

Two seniors, a junior and a sophomore have been replaced by four freshmen, one of whom who should be a senior in high school. It’s a team. They play, prepare and practice as a team. For anyone who ever played, they understand that it’s more than just play games. It’s play, prepare and practice.  And they got younger. 

 

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Call it whatever you want...I can care less if we are technically younger...I care if we are better. We added a 5 star freshman and 3 really solid wings. We return 4 of 5 starters...lost 4 guys and 2 gave us nothing..1 hurt us as much as he helped with his shot selection and the other bogged down the offense although he was active on the boards and could defend his position well. Everyone else got a year older...our leading scorer did, our leading assister did, our leading 3pt shooter did, our two best rebounders did, and yes probably our 6th and 7th likely new starter Armaan and Race and Hunter did. I’ll let you guys play around with the math and use whatever statistics you want...just understand getting younger doesn’t mean worse. 

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52 minutes ago, Sark said:

Two seniors, a junior and a sophomore have been replaced by four freshmen, one of whom who should be a senior in high school. It’s a team. They play, prepare and practice as a team. For anyone who ever played, they understand that it’s more than just play games. It’s play, prepare and practice.  And they got younger. 

hey thanks for calculating the average age all while neglecting that the entire rest of the team got a year older.  

why did I try?  for anyone who ever played.  I'm not going to stoop to your level.   just do the math so this stupid argument you have created can disappear.

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2 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

hey thanks for calculating the average age all while neglecting that the entire rest of the team got a year older.  

why did I try?  for anyone who ever played.  I'm not going to stoop to your level.   just do the math so this stupid argument you have created can disappear.

He knows the math doesn't add up to his point. 

We return more experience than last year and more production. It's an objective fact but he is stuck on his usual schtick of idiotic, negative points. 

He says we got you get but completely ignores that last year lost our two top producers by far in Romeo and Juwan and didn't return anyone with near the experience of Al. 

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