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UL post game thread


Indykev

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26 minutes ago, Indykev said:

If you knew we were going to lose and were only looking for improvement, I can see why you aren't upset.  we could have won that game with any good play from our guards. This team is just playing well enough to break our hearts. lol

First of all. I did not know we were going to lose.  Rather, I did not expect it.  As someone said in the game thread.... awfully hard to win on the road.

Second of all.  Considering the way IU played in it's first game, they have come a long way.  Many of the things that were being carped on, are improving.  Particularly on the way they are playing defense, and cutting down on turnovers.   I am not sure that this team will ever turn into a three point shooting machine that we have become accustomed to over the years.  But on the bright side of that, I see a continual improvement when it comes to decision making in terms of when this team does take a three.

Based on the way IU played and lost to Indiana State, the very fact that they are breaking our hearts against superior teams is, in my estimation, something we all should feel inspired by. After Indiana State, I am sure most, if not all felt we would get blown completely out of games against Duke and Louisville.  Clearly, that was not the case.   At least there is hope. Unlike after the first game of the season. 

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9 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

First of all. I did not know we were going to lose.  Rather, I did not expect it.  As someone said in the game thread.... awfully hard to win on the road.

Second of all.  Considering the way IU played in it's first game, they have come a long way.  Many of the things that were being carped on, are improving.  Particularly on the way they are playing defense, and cutting down on turnovers.   I am not sure that this team will ever turn into a three point shooting machine that we have become accustomed to over the years.  But on the bright side of that, I see a continual improvement when it comes to decision making in terms of when this team does take a three.

Based on the way IU played and lost to Indiana State, the very fact that they are breaking our hearts against superior teams is, in my estimation, something we all should feel inspired by. After Indiana State, I am sure most, if not all felt we would get blown completely out of games against Duke and Louisville.  Clearly, that was not the case.   At least there is hope. Unlike after the first game of the season. 

I keep saying to myself....1989, 1989, 1989..............

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4 hours ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

I hope Romeo watched the game today and said... "Damn this team really, really, really needs me"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder if Crean watched the game today and said " Damn I really screwed this up".

And before the bitching comes about the past is the past, and don't pile on Crean.... this team, and all of it's flaws, is the result of the way the previous regime "built " the program. We can wish away, but the fact of the matter is that we are not going to produce what CAM wants us to be until we are at least a year or two removed from the "Crean" version of basketball. 

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48 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

I wonder if Crean watched the game today and said " Damn I really screwed this up".

And before the bitching comes about the past is the past, and don't pile on Crean.... this team, and all of it's flaws, is the result of the way the previous regime "built " the program. We can wish away, but the fact of the matter is that we are not going to produce what CAM wants us to be until we are at least a year or two removed from the "Crean" version of basketball. 

Bilas alluded to this in the Louisville game today.  I thought he was rather succinct.  Just two different systems, run by two coaches.  Previous coach recruited kids for his system.  And succeeding coach, not only inherited those players, but also kept incoming players, that were actually recruited to and for a different system.  It takes time to adjust.  And personally, I feel most of these guys are adjusting.  It just takes time, like Bilas said. 

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1 hour ago, milehiiu said:

First of all. I did not know we were going to lose.  Rather, I did not expect it.  As someone said in the game thread.... awfully hard to win on the road.

Second of all.  Considering the way IU played in it's first game, they have come a long way.  Many of the things that were being carped on, are improving.  Particularly on the way they are playing defense, and cutting down on turnovers.   I am not sure that this team will ever turn into a three point shooting machine that we have become accustomed to over the years.  But on the bright side of that, I see a continual improvement when it comes to decision making in terms of when this team does take a three.

Based on the way IU played and lost to Indiana State, the very fact that they are breaking our hearts against superior teams is, in my estimation, something we all should feel inspired by. After Indiana State, I am sure most, if not all felt we would get blown completely out of games against Duke and Louisville.  Clearly, that was not the case.   At least there is hope. Unlike after the first game of the season. 

I don't think it is fair to compare every game to the disaster that was our Indiana State game.  There really was nowhere to go but up after that game.  I don't think it is so much that we've improved (we have in some areas), it's just that game was so abysmal it would be impossible not to show improvement.

It's like shooting a 12 on the first hole, and bragging about getting an 8 a couple holes later.  Yeah, we improved, but the round still sucks until we can get some pars or birdies.

I know we are moving to the pack line defense which is meant to protect the paint, but until we learn to cover shooters, we're going to keep getting beat up by most teams.  That's the area I'm looking for improvement in the most moving forward.  We can't keep giving up so many wide open threes or we're going to lose a lot of games.  Even bad shooting teams can hit 35% or more on wide open looks.

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I like how now that Crean is gone, people like to throw him under the bus like he never did anything for the program or never won anything while he was here.

Yeah, he wasn't good enough to get it done here, but part of the strength of his teams was they shot with confidence.  Maybe they would have come out hitting shots today and won.  Who the hell knows he would have been blown out?  Maybe they would have shot terribly and got destroyed.  Why do we feel the need to talk crap about Crean just so people can build up something on Miller.  Who cares anymore?

Miller's goal isn't to be better than Crean.  It is to build Indiana into one of the top programs in the country again.  Let's treat him like it and quit comparing his results to "better than Crean would have done."  Sure, the team might have played better today than if Crean were the coach, but can we really say we'd be happy with the season's results if a top 5 coach was coaching this team?  If we would have hired Donovan and had these same results, nobody would be happy right now.  We're hoping Miller will turn into a coach who gets results like Donovan got.  What does being better than Crean have to do with anything?

This roster isn't good enough to finish at the top of the conference, but it isn't nearly as bad as some people want to make it seem.

And just so people don't say it, I'm not giving up on Miller by any means.  I'm going to give him a few years to get this to where it needs to be.  I'm just thinking critically about the season.  At this point I think he's been decent.  I'm not yet convinced he'll be great, but I hope he can grow into it.

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4 hours ago, Indykev said:

If you knew we were going to lose and were only looking for improvement, I can see why you aren't upset.  we could have won that game with any good play from our guards. This team is just playing well enough to break our hearts. lol

I don't like to lose but I am very happy to see the improvement from this team.  If you were expecting this team to be able to win these kind of games early in the season then your expectations were out of whack.

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13 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I don't like to lose but I am very happy to see the improvement from this team.  If you were expecting this team to be able to win these kind of games early in the season then your expectations were out of whack.

I want us to win every game. I hated Mike Davis when he would do interviews and say well we have a hard stretch of games coming up, if we go 5 and 2 or 4 and 3 we will be ok. I love the improvement of some, not everyone is getting better. But we gave away that game today and its ok if some are pissed about it is my point.

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i'm mixed on a lot of things.  personally i don't think you can expect this team to beat teams like Louisville this year, so in that aspect i was encouraged that we played them well.  on the other hand, it's already getting a little old just being excited that we aren't getting blown out.  from a talent aspect, it's like i said coming into the season - talent matters and this isn't a very talented IU team.  as for Rob and Newkirk - would love to see them sit.  they're not going to lead us to wins, so what's the point?  play for next year and let the young guys get experience.  now with that said, that can cause a coach huge problems.  you sit your senior "leaders" and they can really tear a team apart with their attitudes.  i used to be a RoJo fan, but man, he's tough to watch.  pretty much feel the same about Newkirk, but i've never really been a big fan of his.

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13 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Outside of his acceptable defense, I don’t know how you can characterize his performance today as anything other than pathetic.  He is a total liability on offense.

Yeah I know, I’m agreeing with you. Probably just would have used a different word, but ultimately that’s just semantics. 

It’s just a shame that he isn’t having that type of senior season that propels this team. That type of season where it all clicks as a senior and you know you can just count of a guy. I’m not saying he has to average 18ppg or something, but that senior where in a game like yesterday when the game was up for grabs but our offense was nonexistent he just sort of takes over for a stretch and you know you can count on him for buckets. 

RoJo just doesn’t have it, at least not yet. 

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11 hours ago, Drroogh said:

I have no idea what Crean would have done with this batch of HIS players, but can only imagine how horrible this game would have been with his insistence on speed and 3 point shooting???

I was thinking the same thing after this game.  Throw in the usually excessive turnovers and bad defense.  This game, and Duke could have been extremely different.

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Also, I have to say Newkirk drives me nuts, but it seems like we play our best offense when he is in, and sadly he might be our best 3 point shooter lol.  If Rob could just shoot 33% at the 3 regularly I feel like the Duke game and Louisville would have come down to the wire. 

I think we are getting close to being a tournament caliber team, but still have some work to do.  Last stretch of our schedule is very very winnable. I hope we can finish strong, and get a good draw in the Bigten tourney, win a couple games then sneak in, or have a high seed in the NIT.  Then land Romeo ;)

That would be a great first season for Archie.

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Do others agree that the style that CAM is promoting is far more heartening than what we have seen over the past decade?  As I am sure some have said it already, but if we hit  30% of our 3's(not lights out) in the second half, we win.  With his system in place and the players fully integrated into it,  I think we will be a handful for years to come.  I hate losing, but this year's game against UL was way, way better than how we played them last year.  I always felt like we couldn't never really compete with the style and athleticism of teams like UL and Syracuse.  I think this will no longer be true.

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One of the problems with this year's team, as I alluded to above, is that, let's face it.... for the most part they are not a good three point shooting team. That makes if difficult running an inside out game, when the opposing team feels they don't have to honor shots outside of the three point line, and just pack their defenses in the paint.  Then we run into problems, when De'Ron is having to sit due to foul trouble, or just take a blow as we saw in the UL game.   There is no doubt in my mind, that by season's end, Archie will have this figured out.  Not that he is not already aware of our issues with hitting the three.  Yeah, Dan.... I agree the UL game would have had a different outcome, had IU been able to hit threes as in year's past. 

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I am a huge Archie Miller fan, and believe in what he is doing and trying to accomplish.  That said, I sense he is being a bit of a diplomat with the roster he inherited.  Instead of playing seniors Johnson and Newkirk, I wish he’d rip the bandaid off and go with Green and Durham at the guards.   This way, at least the struggle is building toward the future.   

I do not feel that way about senior Hartman.  Kid has had a rough time with injuries but is a HOOSIER to the bone, and is a reliable player, team player. 

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18 minutes ago, Fundamentals said:

I am a huge Archie Miller fan, and believe in what he is doing and trying to accomplish.  That said, I sense he is being a bit of a diplomat with the roster he inherited.  Instead of playing seniors Johnson and Newkirk, I wish he’d rip the bandaid off and go with Green and Durham at the guards.   This way, at least the struggle is building toward the future.   

I do not feel that way about senior Hartman.  Kid has had a rough time with injuries but is a HOOSIER to the bone, and is a reliable player, team player. 

i think you're probably right.  it can really rip a team up if you bench seniors.

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what you can do is make it a little less obvious and ease your way into it.  go ahead and start them if you feel you have to, but start pulling them more and giving them less playing time.  don't start one of them here and there due to effort in practice or poor play.  do this more and more gradually.  by the end of the season, really give the younger guys more time, starts, etc.

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bball society is just so different today.  in the past, coaches would just bench them right here and now and if they pouted or were a detriment to the team, coach would kick their butt.  these days you have to be careful because those kids can tear your team up and it's not easy to do much about it.  

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15 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Don’t think Johnson played poorly? In 35 minutes, he didn’t score and had 2 rebounds. How’s that not poor?

Bad wording on my part, I suppose. What I meant was, he didn’t go out and jack up bad shots, he didn’t turn the ball over, his defense was pretty good. Didn’t do anything to cost us the game. His lack of assertiveness on offense and lack of scoring was pathetic. Grade it as you wish. 

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2 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

Bad wording on my part, I suppose. What I meant was, he didn’t go out and jack up bad shots, he didn’t turn the ball over, his defense was pretty good. Didn’t do anything to cost us the game. His lack of assertiveness on offense and lack of scoring was pathetic. Grade it as you wish. 

F

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18 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

Bad wording on my part, I suppose. What I meant was, he didn’t go out and jack up bad shots, he didn’t turn the ball over, his defense was pretty good. Didn’t do anything to cost us the game. His lack of assertiveness on offense and lack of scoring was pathetic. Grade it as you wish. 

Didn’t do anything to cost you the game? Not scoring a single point is a pretty big reason why you guys lost the game. I thought I read he was like a -19 yesterday? 

Its interesting because there was a heated battle on the main rivals college b-ball board as to who was better between Mathis and RoJo. It was agreed RoJo was the better player his first two years but Mathias was clearly better last year and easily so this year. I expected more from RoJo this year. 

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