UL post game thread

[Proud2BAHoosier]

2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

One of the problems with this year's team, as I alluded to above, is that, let's face it.... for the most part they are not a good three point shooting team. That makes if difficult running an inside out game, when the opposing team feels they don't have to honor shots outside of the three point line, and just pack their defenses in the paint.  Then we run into problems, when De'Ron is having to sit due to foul trouble, or just take a blow as we saw in the UL game.   There is no doubt in my mind, that by season's end, Archie will have this figured out.  Not that he is not already aware of our issues with hitting the three.  Yeah, Dan.... I agree the UL game would have had a different outcome, had IU been able to hit threes as in year's past. 

mile..... Zach Osterman seems to agree with you about IUs shooting woes:

http://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/12/09/insider-iu-basketball-needs-3-s-fall-but-what-if-they-dont/934949001/

[CampHoosier]

I have to eat crow on McRoberts. Kid plays hard and makes some key plays. While some look lost he seems to always be in the place he needs to be. He absolutely deserves the minutes he is getting. 

[milehiiu]

42 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

mile..... Zach Osterman seems to agree with you about IUs shooting woes:

http://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2017/12/09/insider-iu-basketball-needs-3-s-fall-but-what-if-they-dont/934949001/

Shortly after we merged HSN1.0 with Inside Indiana on 247, Zach left us to take over the vacancy left by Terry Hutchins who had gotten fired from the Indy Star.  At the time, I thought it was a bad move on Zach's part, in that to this day, I believe that hard copy newspapers are a dying breed.  It's always good to hear from and see an old friend who is doing well.   Thanks for the link. 

 

[cohete15]

3 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Didn’t do anything to cost you the game? Not scoring a single point is a pretty big reason why you guys lost the game. I thought I read he was like a -19 yesterday? 

Its interesting because there was a heated battle on the main rivals college b-ball board as to who was better between Mathis and RoJo. It was agreed RoJo was the better player his first two years but Mathias was clearly better last year and easily so this year. I expected more from RoJo this year. 

Our point guards cost us the game. Al Durham had 5 turnovers. Josh Newkirk had 4 turnovers, including one to seal the game. Those 2 players gave UL 9 possessions that didn’t come off a shot. That is stuff that costs you a game. RoJo not scoring didn’t cost us the game. First half foul trouble is another factor that cost us the game. 

Overall, I think we need to play a bigger lineup. Morgan, Davis, Hartman, Smith, McRoberts rotate 3-5 all game. Green/Durham/RoJo competing for starts at 1 and 2. Personally I am not big on freshmen starting. So I would go Green and RoJo. Then Newkirk and Durham off the bench. Our guards are just not good enough offensively to play a 3 guard lineup. 

[rico]

6 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

Our point guards cost us the game. Al Durham had 5 turnovers. Josh Newkirk had 4 turnovers, including one to seal the game. Those 2 players gave UL 9 possessions that didn’t come off a shot. That is stuff that costs you a game. RoJo not scoring didn’t cost us the game. First half foul trouble is another factor that cost us the game. 

Overall, I think we need to play a bigger lineup. Morgan, Davis, Hartman, Smith, McRoberts rotate 3-5 all game. Green/Durham/RoJo competing for starts at 1 and 2. Then Newkirk. Our guards are just not good enough offensively to play a 3 guard lineup. 

Bah........a 4 year starter like RoJo cost us the game.  The guy is supposed to be a seasoned vet.......I don't see it.

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

Blaming Newkirk instead of Johnson is ludicrous. 

[cohete15]

14 minutes ago, rico said:

Bah........a 4 year starter like RoJo cost us the game.  The guy is supposed to be a seasoned vet.......I don't see it.

There’s a difference in a seasoned vet and a seasoned vet ready to take on the opportunity to be the lead player on a team. He’s clearly not the latter. We can agree on that. He’s not what we hoped he would be and it’s left us all very disappointed. I just didn’t think he *cost* us the game. 

[cohete15]

2 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Blaming Newkirk instead of Johnson is ludicrous. 

In what way? He gave them the ball 4 times. And at a critical point, he got the ball stolen from him 12 feet beyond the arc. He took shots from 8 feet beyond the arc. 

[rico]

10 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

There’s a difference in a seasoned vet and a seasoned vet ready to take on the opportunity to be the lead player on a team. He’s clearly not the latter. We can agree on that. He’s not what we hoped he would be and it’s left us all very disappointed. I just didn’t think he *cost* us the game. 

And I will agree on that.  RoJo is a flaming star.

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

32 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

In what way? He gave them the ball 4 times. And at a critical point, he got the ball stolen from him 12 feet beyond the arc. He took shots from 8 feet beyond the arc. 

RoJo literally contributed nothing. Newkirk scored 13 points. 

[Leathernecks]

6 hours ago, milehiiu said:

One of the problems with this year's team, as I alluded to above, is that, let's face it.... for the most part they are not a good three point shooting team. That makes if difficult running an inside out game, when the opposing team feels they don't have to honor shots outside of the three point line, and just pack their defenses in the paint.  Then we run into problems, when De'Ron is having to sit due to foul trouble, or just take a blow as we saw in the UL game.   There is no doubt in my mind, that by season's end, Archie will have this figured out.  Not that he is not already aware of our issues with hitting the three.  Yeah, Dan.... I agree the UL game would have had a different outcome, had IU been able to hit threes as in year's past. 

I agree that this team was never destined to be a great shooting team, but as the article said, everyone has regressed since last year except Newkirk who is basically even.

I know that Archie is preaching good shots and sometimes benches people for bad shots, but has that taken away some of the confidence of the shooters?

[KoB2011]

3 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

RoJo literally contributed nothing. Newkirk scored 13 points. 

He had some be great passes too. I thought it was his best game of the year until about two minutes left. 

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

He had some be great passes too. I thought it was his best game of the year until about two minutes left. 

Yeah his 4 assists shouldn’t go unnoticed. Rob 0. Rob did have 2 rebounds to Newkirks 6. Wait...

[FWIUFan]

1 minute ago, Leathernecks said:

I agree that this team was never destined to be a great shooting team, but as the article said, everyone has regressed since last year except Newkirk who is basically even.

I know that Archie is preaching good shots and sometimes benches people for bad shots, but has that taken away some of the confidence of the shooters?

Call me unwise but I'm still not ready to throw Rojo and Newkirk completely under the bus yet. I truly think some of the problems we're seeing with Rojo and Newkirk are that I don't think they are yet sure enough to know what CAM would rate as a good shot or not within the system he is wanting to play.  CTC seemed to give the green light to the first open opportunity irrespective of the shot clock.  CAM seems to be more like CBK and wanting to "probe" the defense with a few passes, picks, and cuts before shooting.  Neither of them are playing "free"  within the constructs of CAM's offense yet.  They seem to be hesitant and thinking too much at times.  I can only hope that this will improve as the season continues.

[FW_Hoosier]

13 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

Call me unwise but I'm still not ready to throw Rojo and Newkirk completely under the bus yet. I truly think some of the problems we're seeing with Rojo and Newkirk are that I don't think they are yet sure enough to know what CAM would rate as a good shot or not within the system he is wanting to play.  CTC seemed to give the green light to the first open opportunity irrespective of the shot clock.  CAM seems to be more like CBK and wanting to "probe" the defense with a few passes, picks, and cuts before shooting.  Neither of them are playing "free"  within the constructs of CAM's offense yet.  They seem to be hesitant and thinking too much at times.  I can only hope that this will improve as the season continues.

The issue is that RoJo’s slump has lasted an entire calendar year.  He was just as bad in Crean’s system for most of last season.  Not too optimistic he’s going to turn it around at this point.

[slojoe]

This team is just bad.

[cohete15]

1 hour ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

RoJo literally contributed nothing. Newkirk scored 13 points. 

I’m not defending Rob’s absence. But you’re blaming the game on a guy who you said did nothing. I’m pointing at statistics that contributed to UL scoring more than us. The guy is very disappointing. But it’s also not his fault that we all, every year, EXPECT him to be something he’s not. As a matter of fact, if you listened to Archie’s interviews in preseason, you would have known we have absolutely nothing special in Robert Johnson. He’s at best, a streaky, supporting guard. He’s not an alpha dog.

I appreciate Newkirk’s effort and hustle, and he does have some positive attributes, but he tried to be something he’s not. “He had 4 and 6 to go with his points”. So for those good things, he matched his 4 assists with 4 turnovers. He matched his 6 rebounds with 8 missed shots. Robert didn’t turn it over and didn’t insist on jacking up shots. The money is in Morgan and Davis (12-19 FG). Newkirk is the worst shooter we have, yet he led the team in FGA. After every game we lose, on this board, its “Newkirk needs to stop shooting and RoJo needs to get his $hit together”. Well RoJo has his stuff together, he just is what he is whether we like it or not. Newkirk can choose to not be what he is. Morgan and Davis were 12-19 from the field, but Newkirk got 12 shots up at 33% in a losing effort. Just Be a hustle guy, drive the lane, shoot when you’re open from a reasonable distance, get physical. You’re not Yogi, stop acting like it. 

[FW_Hoosier]

6 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

I appreciate Newkirk’s effort and hustle, and he does have some positive attributes, but he tried to be something he’s not. “He had 4 and 6 to go with his points”. So for those good things, he matched his 4 assists with 4 turnovers. He matched his 6 rebounds with 8 missed shots. Robert didn’t turn it over and didn’t insist on jacking up shots. The money is in Morgan and Davis (12-19 FG). Newkirk is the worst shooter we have, yet he led the team in FGA.

The worst shooter we have?  Newkirk is shooting a respectable 38.9% on 3.6 attempts a game... that’s the second-highest 3FG% on the team behind Hartman’s 40%.  He’s one of the best shooters and scorers on this team.  With RoJo providing absolutely nothing on the offensive end, Newkirk is one of our only options.  

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

33 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

The worst shooter we have?  Newkirk is shooting a respectable 38.9% on 3.6 attempts a game... that’s the second-highest 3FG% on the team behind Hartman’s 40%.  He’s one of the best shooters and scorers on this team.  With RoJo providing absolutely nothing on the offensive end, Newkirk is one of our only options.  

Newkirk is either our first or second best shooter. Hartman his only competition. 

[milehiiu]

19 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Newkirk is either our first or second best shooter. Hartman his only competition. 

While it may not be a fair comparison, since he works primarily under the bucket..... and I do agree with you on those two guys.  But De'Ron has a 54 % plus career average..... and is hitting at better than 65%, this season.

Plus De'Ron is the second leading scorer on the team so far this year.  Some times.... things tend to go unnoticed.  LOL

De'Ron Davis College Stats

[KoB2011]

23 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

While it may not be a fair comparison, since he works primarily under the bucket..... and I do agree with you on those two guys.  But De'Ron has a 54 % plus career average..... and is hitting at better than 65%, this season.

Plus De'Ron is the second leading scorer on the team so far this year.  Some times.... things tend to go unnoticed.  LOL

De'Ron Davis College Stats

Shooting refers to jump shots, not dunks and layups. I'm assuming Davis is one of the last people you want taking one of those?

[FW_Hoosier]

46 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Newkirk is either our first or second best shooter. Hartman his only competition. 

And maybe Green when he’s on.  Outside of those three, we can really only count on Durham for a spot-up three now and then.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Newkirk is either our first or second best shooter. Hartman his only competition. 

Priller has not missed a shot yet this year 😎

[rico]

18 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

Priller has not missed a shot yet this year 😎

Neither have I.

[Drroogh]

4 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

I agree that this team was never destined to be a great shooting team, but as the article said, everyone has regressed since last year except Newkirk who is basically even.

I know that Archie is preaching good shots and sometimes benches people for bad shots, but has that taken away some of the confidence of the shooters?

I wonder if the shooting problems we have this year aren't similar to Yogi's freshman year. I love the Clif Marshall addition but the big changes in strength these guys went through this summer have to have affected their shots, combine that with having to work so much on the new systems and the guys just haven't been able to get their shots going. As I said just wondering?