IU Leading the Charge on NIL Rights

[IU Scott]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29519579/senators-urge-ncaa-widen-scope-reform-college-athlete-compensation

Found this article discussing what we have been discussing in this thread.

[dbmhoosier]

2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Indiana's Alford Suspended for 1 Game : Photo in Charity Fund-Raising Calendar Brings Action by NCAA - Los Angeles Times

Didn't we lose to UK by like a point and Knight then blamed it all on Steve?

[milehiiu]

12 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Didn't we lose to UK by like a point and Knight then blamed it all on Steve?

As memory serves me. We lost to UK by more than one point... yet I do think Coach Knight blamed the loss on Steve.  Oh, the days !

[Steubenhoosier]

I suspect that there are gonna be some disappointed kids when reality hits them in the face and they realize that they aren’t as valuable as they think. I agree, this is free market commerce. Maybe in the first year or so, some donors will overpay a kid whose Q value isn’t worth the investment. The donors will figure it out, and market prices will settle to where their value exists. No reason to regulate a problem that doesn’t exist. Keep the government out of this and let the process determine who deserves to be paid and who doesn’t 

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

As memory serves me. We lost to UK by more than one point... yet I do think Coach Knight blamed the loss on Steve.  Oh, the days !

Just looked it up that we lost that game 63-58

[dgambill]

I do worry about kids getting jealous and it creating division. I also worry about boosters funneling money through companies maybe not theirs but by donation or making quid quo pros. I don’t know if you are allowed to set them up before hand...like say having a deal with Kroger’s (as official team sponsor) and then they agree to pick an athlete to do commercials/promos or car dealers etc etc...but certainly you can show them that you have a whole department set up to work in their advantage and show them past deals your players have gotten...so even more reason to hit the ground running. I’m not sure if Addidas and Nike can sign kids in return for them going to certain schools etc like it was before but if that is the case it could get big money real fast.

[milehiiu]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Just looked it up that we lost that game 63-58

And Alford most likely would have made the difference, had he played.  Yet hard to condemn Steve for attempting to raise money for  charity,  Something that would not be an issue with the current NCAA rulings. 

[milehiiu]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

I do worry about kids getting jealous and it creating division. I also worry about boosters funneling money through companies maybe not theirs but by donation or making quid quo pros. I don’t know if you are allowed to set them up before hand...like say having a deal with Kroger’s (as official team sponsor) and then they agree to pick an athlete to do commercials/promos or car dealers etc etc...but certainly you can show them that you have a whole department set up to work in their advantage and show them past deals your players have gotten...so even more reason to hit the ground running. I’m not sure if Addidas and Nike can sign kids in return for them going to certain schools etc like it was before but if that is the case it could get big money real fast.

Boosters have always been an issue.  Check into the history of UCLA, during the Wooden years.

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Boosters have always been an issue.  Check into the history of UCLA, during the Wooden years.

Yes I know...in some ways this makes it easier and could make that more wide spread...but other ways it puts everyone on a more even playing field.

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, go_iu_bb said:

There is a limit. That limit is how many companies are what a player to endorse them and how much those companies are willing to pay. In other words, it's the players' market values.

Exactly.  Most of the time it's not going to be a lot, but I can't see any arbitrary cap flying.

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29519579/senators-urge-ncaa-widen-scope-reform-college-athlete-compensation

Found this article discussing what we have been discussing in this thread.

I see the NCAA reps are trying to put limits on like you've mentioned, but it's interesting that members of commerce don't seem to be having it.  Of course, they were trying to get an exemption from the kind of lawsuits I referenced earlier as well, so for sure, they would LIKE to do what you proposed, but it appears they are fighting an uphill battle.

I don't like this any more than you do, Scott.  I'm a purist that wants to watch kids play for an education and for the love of the game.  What will happen here is that each university will end up with semi-pro "club" teams made up of non-students just there for the game experience and the bucks and it will look more like the pro game and less like the less predictable college game that I love...

BUT...

...once you open this pandora's box, I can't see any reasonable way to put arbitrary limits  on endorsement deals, which will undoubtedly piss off the more talented kids and cause all sorts of legal problems for the NCAA unless congress gives them the exemption they are trying to get (they obviously saw the legal quicksand as well).  I think the California rule is stupid.  Let the kids good enough to earn endorsement dollars go straight to the pros and let the kids who want to be a student and earn a degree play the college game.  Reminds me of how the IOC managed to screw up the Olympics, frankly.  Make the call...either a game or sport is professional or it's amateur.  I hate how the lines are blurred between the two.

[Steubenhoosier]

1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

I see the NCAA reps are trying to put limits on like you've mentioned, but it's interesting that members of commerce don't seem to be having it.  Of course, they were trying to get an exemption from the kind of lawsuits I referenced earlier as well, so for sure, they would LIKE to do what you proposed, but it appears they are fighting an uphill battle.

I don't like this any more than you do, Scott.  I'm a purist that wants to watch kids play for an education and for the love of the game.  What will happen here is that each university will end up with semi-pro "club" teams made up of non-students just there for the game experience and the bucks and it will look more like the pro game and less like the less predictable college game that I love...

BUT...

...once you open this pandora's box, I can't see any reasonable way to put arbitrary limits  on endorsement deals, which will undoubtedly piss off the more talented kids and cause all sorts of legal problems for the NCAA unless congress gives them the exemption they are trying to get (they obviously saw the legal quicksand as well).  I think the California rule is stupid.  Let the kids good enough to earn endorsement dollars go straight to the pros and let the kids who want to be a student and earn a degree play the college game.  Reminds me of how the IOC managed to screw up the Olympics, frankly.  Make the call...either a game or sport is professional or it's amateur.  I hate how the lines are blurred between the two.

I bet that the attorneys that represented O’Bannon to begin with are getting their ducks in a row if there is any legal movement to restrict what kids can earn. They litigated long and hard for this and compromising is probably not what they were hired for.

[FKIM01]

2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I bet that the attorneys that represented O’Bannon to begin with are getting their ducks in a row if there is any legal movement to restrict what kids can earn. They litigated long and hard for this and compromising is probably not what they were hired for.

It's stupid to try to police this.  Pandora's box is open and the NCAA might as well quit fighting and get used to it.

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I see the NCAA reps are trying to put limits on like you've mentioned, but it's interesting that members of commerce don't seem to be having it.  Of course, they were trying to get an exemption from the kind of lawsuits I referenced earlier as well, so for sure, they would LIKE to do what you proposed, but it appears they are fighting an uphill battle.

I don't like this any more than you do, Scott.  I'm a purist that wants to watch kids play for an education and for the love of the game.  What will happen here is that each university will end up with semi-pro "club" teams made up of non-students just there for the game experience and the bucks and it will look more like the pro game and less like the less predictable college game that I love...

BUT...

...once you open this pandora's box, I can't see any reasonable way to put arbitrary limits  on endorsement deals, which will undoubtedly piss off the more talented kids and cause all sorts of legal problems for the NCAA unless congress gives them the exemption they are trying to get (they obviously saw the legal quicksand as well).  I think the California rule is stupid.  Let the kids good enough to earn endorsement dollars go straight to the pros and let the kids who want to be a student and earn a degree play the college game.  Reminds me of how the IOC managed to screw up the Olympics, frankly.  Make the call...either a game or sport is professional or it's amateur.  I hate how the lines are blurred between the two.

If it comes to that and they no longer are students than I am done with college sports.  To me I would like to see the NCAA standup and say if the players don't like it then go somewhere else.  Don't bow down to the players because there are plenty of players out there that will be ready to take their places.

[IU Scott]

I love watching high school basketball more than I do the NBA so if the talent level is a little down at the college level I will still watch it.  If college would go back to having players staying four years it would make a better product.  I truly enjoy watching mid major teams like Belmont and Davidson and wouldn't mind seeing more college programs like them.

[Steubenhoosier]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

If it comes to that and they no longer are students than I am done with college sports.  To me I would like to see the NCAA standup and say if the players don't like it then go somewhere else.  Don't bow down to the players because there are plenty of players out there that will be ready to take their places.

All due respect, Scott. I know you have kids in college. If they were told that they could make a stipend for whatever their talents were, you would rather the principle take precedent over your child benefiting?

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

All due respect, Scott. I know you have kids in college. If they were told that they could make a stipend for whatever their talents were, you would rather the principle take precedent over your child benefiting?

Well my daughter got a full ride to IU and received a check for $11,000 every semester.  That was plenty for her to live off for the semester so an athletic scholarship should be no different.  Athletes get stipends already and get money for housing so athletes should ever cry poverty.

[Steubenhoosier]

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well my daughter got a full ride to IU and received a check for $11,000 every semester.  That was plenty for her to live off for the semester so an athletic scholarship should be no different.  Athletes get stipends already and get money for housing so athletes should ever cry poverty.

Good for her! But if she was offered a pot of $$$, enough to pay off loans, buy a home, start a business,  you don’t think she deserves it?

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Good for her! But if she was offered a pot of $$$, enough to pay off loans, buy a home, start a business,  you don’t think she deserves it?

I tell her to leave school and go to work and make that money just like I would tell the athletes to do.  I am saying that the scholarship money is more than enough for these athletes and don't need anymore.  If they don't like it go elsewhere to work on your craft.  They get the top of of the art facilities and everything else that goes to being a college athlete.

[Steubenhoosier]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I tell her to leave school and go to work and make that money just like I would tell the athletes to do.  I am saying that the scholarship money is more than enough for these athletes and don't need anymore.  If they don't like it go elsewhere to work on your craft.  They get the top of of the art facilities and everything else that goes to being a college athlete.

Why should they have to choose? If they can have both, good for them. Who is to say what a person needs, and that they don’t need any more? Our country was built on the concept of capitalism. Make as much as you can, for as long as you can, when you can. 

Many of these kids are being asked to provide for their families, multiple generations. Their windows to make money from their athletic gifts is only open for a short period. I have no issues with them earning whatever they can, whatever the market will pay them, during that time. If they can capitalize on that, and at the same time earn a degree, in my mind, that’s the best of all worlds 

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Why should they have to choose? If they can have both, good for them. Who is to say what a person needs, and that they don’t need any more? Our country was built on the concept of capitalism. Make as much as you can, for as long as you can, when you can. 

Many of these kids are being asked to provide for their families, multiple generations. Their windows to make money from their athletic gifts is only open for a short period. I have no issues with them earning whatever they can, whatever the market will pay them, during that time. If they can capitalize on that, and at the same time earn a degree, in my mind, that’s the best of all worlds 

I am sorry college sports are not professional sports.  If these kids wants to be paid go pro and leave college sports for actual student athletes.  

[Steubenhoosier]

Scott, I am not going to go on with this. Last thing I will say on this topic...

You put yourself out there as being old school and that you are a huge proponent of college athletics, college athletes, and the way things used to be. How you come across is that you support kids while they attend/play for IU, or any school, for that matter, but once they are done, you don’t seem to care whether they have taken care of their future. All you appear to care about is that these kids give their blood, sweat, and maybe even tears, for good ol’ state U.

Like many on this board, I am a huge college fan, hugeIU fan. We wouldn’t be here if we weren’t. But I also know that kids move on. Kids have a future. I want their futures to be enhanced by their time in Bloomington. And if that means that they can prosper financially, good for them.

Last thing I’ll say on this. How successful do you think CAM would be on the recruiting trail if the message he endorsed was,  “Your scholarship money should be enough. If you want more, go somewhere else.”

Do you really think that message would bring in the level of recruits to bring the program back to where we all want it to be?

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Scott, I am not going to go on with this. Last thing I will say on this topic...

You put yourself out there as being old school and that you are a huge proponent of college athletics, college athletes, and the way things used to be. How you come across is that you support kids while they attend/play for IU, or any school, for that matter, but once they are done, you don’t seem to care whether they have taken care of their future. All you appear to care about is that these kids give their blood, sweat, and maybe even tears, for good ol’ state U.

Like many on this board, I am a huge college fan, hugeIU fan. We wouldn’t be here if we weren’t. But I also know that kids move on. Kids have a future. I want their futures to be enhanced by their time in Bloomington. And if that means that they can prosper financially, good for them.

Last thing I’ll say on this. How successful do you think CAM would be on the recruiting trail if the message he endorsed was,  “Your scholarship money should be enough. If you want more, go somewhere else.”

Do you really think that message would bring in the level of recruits to bring the program back to where we all want it to be?

I think He would do just fine in the recruiting trail.  What I want is the college game to go back to the way it was supposed to be.  It was for student athletes and that is what I prefer and don't want to be an NBA feeder system.  I would rather college basketball be where everyone stayed at least 3 years and wanted to be there.  I am starting to wish they would just let everyone who has no interest in playing college sports to go pro.  If that means the best players are at the level of the top mid major teams I would be all for it.

Also you are right I only care for IU sports and not the I individuals who plays for us.  If they come here and play their hearts out and do the right things I will back them.  Once they leave I wish them well but probably not pay that much attention to what they do in the pros.

[Steubenhoosier]

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think He would do just fine in the recruiting trail.  What I want is the college game to go back to the way it was supposed to be.  It was for student athletes and that is what I prefer and don't want to be an NBA feeder system.  I would rather college basketball be where everyone stayed at least 3 years and wanted to be there.  I am starting to wish they would just let everyone who has no interest in playing college sports to go pro.  If that means the best players are at the level of the top mid major teams I would be all for it.

Also you are right I only care for IU sports and not the I individuals who plays for us.  If they come here and play their hearts out and do the right things I will back them.  Once they leave I wish them well but probably not pay that much attention to what they do in the pros.

I feel sorry for you Scott. Would never want to share your viewpoint. Would never want to work in a place where you have any say in my future. 

How you come across is that these kids are commodities. Use ‘em then lose ‘em.

Glad my kids have never run into a coach, teacher or boss with your mindset 

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I feel sorry for you Scott. Would never want to share your viewpoint. Would never want to work in a place where you have any say in my future. 

How you come across is that these kids are commodities. Use ‘em then lose ‘em.

Glad my kids have never run into a coach, teacher or boss with your mindset 

If those players stay at least 3 years and do the right things I am all for them a hope they do well in whatever they do after they leave.  I did not say I hope they fail if they go to the NBA but just say I won't make the effort to watch them mainly because I don't like the NBA.  I guess it might have came off wrong but what I meant is that I root for the name on the front of the jersey and not the back of it.  When I say that is that I will root for IU no matter who is on the team and will back any player that plays at IU.

Actually I went over to the idiot board the other day just to check it out and their is one guy over their who hopes Romeo fails in the NBA.  This guy must had this huge expectations of him because for some reason he hates him because he did not meet his expectation at IU.  I am not like that since I don't want nay IU player to fail at all and hope they all make the all star team and be all pros.