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At What Point......


5fouls

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56 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said:

Hmm...it's a bit surprising to see some of us are ok with no championship for the next decade as long as CAM can get us to top 10-12 ish level nationally. 

No championship in the next 10 years will make it 40-year drought. I will definitely stop considering us a blue blood. 

I'm more concerned with what's going to happen moving forward and what Archie can do, than making bad decisions because of some drought or status label such as "blue blood". IMO once you find "the guy" it's mostly about patience, support, and giving him the tools and all he needs to be successful. 

If Archie can accomplish the example, or close to it, of MSU's last 10 years then it would be foolish to fire him because he didn't bring a National Title in that time frame. In a sport with a playoff as random as the NCAA Tournament it's more about being a high seed as often as possible, therefore increasing your chances of breaking through, than anything else. 

Get IU consistently competing for and winning Big Ten Titles, consistently getting high seeds and then the rest will eventually (final fours, titles, etc.) come into play. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm more concerned with what's going to happen moving forward and what Archie can do, than making bad decisions because of some drought or status label such as "blue blood". IMO once you find "the guy" it's mostly about patience, support, and giving him the tools and all he needs to be successful. 

If Archie can accomplish the example, or close to it, of MSU's last 10 years then it would be foolish to fire him because he didn't bring a National Title in that time frame. In a sport with a playoff as random as the NCAA Tournament it's more about being a high seed as often as possible, therefore increasing your chances of breaking through, than anything else. 

Get IU consistently competing for and winning Big Ten Titles, consistently getting high seeds and then the rest will eventually (final fours, titles, etc.) come into play. 

Of course we need someone who can regularly get us to the position to keep knocking that door. And if he's as good as Izzo, I have no doubt he'll be safe for a long term. But don't you think at least in one of his numerous tries, he'd need to open that door that's been closed to IU for more than 3 decades? 

In the next 10 years, Coach K, Williams, Boeheim will be gone. Pitino's already gone. Self and Calipari will be in their mid to late 60's and Izzo will be over 70. I'm sure CAM will be right there among the best coaches in collegiate level. I know we gotta have some good luck to win it all, but to me, it's the banner that truly defines a coach's career at IU. I"m sure all coaches that came here after Knight had one thing in mind. That is they could win championships at IU. Why should we lower the bar?

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21 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

When did I ever say they were not efficient.  I am talking about tempo and they were a deliberate half court team for many years.

I went back and looked up every one of RMK's teams.  They averaged 88.0 ppg in......................'74-'75.  And that was without a shot clock!!!!

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1 minute ago, addictedtoIU said:

Of course we need someone who can regularly get us to the position to keep knocking that door. And if he's as good as Izzo, I have no doubt he'll be safe for a long term. But don't you think at least in one of his numerous tries, he'd need to open that door that's been closed to IU for more than 3 decades? 

In the next 10 years, Coach K, Williams, Boeheim will be gone. Pitino's already gone. Self and Calipari will be in their mid to late 60's and Izzo will be over 70. I'm sure CAM will be right there among the best coaches in collegiate level. I know we gotta have some good luck to win it all, but to me, it's the banner that truly defines a coach's career at IU. I"m sure all coaches that came here after Knight had one thing in mind. That is they could win championships at IU. Why should we lower the bar?

Who said anything about lowering the bar?  If you think Archie is one of the best coaches at the collegiate level, then why would you make a change if he had a ton of success over a 10-year period but for whatever reason didn't break through the national title? You going to go hire one of the other best coaches and then fire him if he doesn't win a title in 10 years? Once you get the coach right, it's about patience. If he's the right guy, and you think you have one of the best coaches in the nation, then ride it out, enjoy the success and hold firm that he'll eventually break through. 

For the most part, the best organizations in sports (college or pro) are patient once they have their guy. 

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22 minutes ago, rico said:

I went back and looked up every one of RMK's teams.  They averaged 88.0 ppg in......................'74-'75.  And that was without a shot clock!!!!

Then why did you not post the next 6 years.

1976- 82pts

77- 70.8pts

78-70.3pts

79- 67.3pts

80- 68.2pts

81- 70.0pts(championship team)

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12 minutes ago, rico said:

Because he only won one?

Just out of curiosity, I took a look at coach Heathcote's career at MSU. In his 19 year career at MSU, he had 1 championship, 1 EE, and 2 SS (340 wins and 220 losses). 

Izzo, during his 22 seasons at MSU (by end of last season), he had 1 championship, 6 FF, 2 EE, 4 SS (542 wins 220 losses). 

Izzo IS the best coach MSU has ever had. 

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8 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

College stats don’t mean much to pro scouts if a player doesn’t have the traits to succeed at the NBA level.  Just look at OG, who hardly produced anything stat-wise in college and is now thriving as a rookie first round pick.  The big trait I think Juwan is lacking is NBA-level athleticism.

I can’t speak for others, but of the players you listed, the only one who I personally thought made a mistake by leaving early was Bryant, and that was only because I thought one more year under Archie could boost his draft stock into the first round.  All of those players had the level of athleticism required to make it in the NBA, and it showed in where they ended up getting drafted.

If Juwan left after this season, there is absolutely no chance he would be drafted.  I think he knows this, just like RoJo did last year.  And as shown by his play this season, the fact that RoJo declared after last year was a total joke.  Although Juwan is a much better college player than RoJo, the scouts won’t tell him he’s an NBA prospect if he decides to test the waters after this season.

I agree with you here.  The only people I remember questioning guys like OG or Zeller going are guys that openly claim to not watch much or any NBA.  There was sometimes talk about should a guy like OG come back to boost his stock to higher in the first round, but no one questioned rather or not he would get drafted in the first round.  It was an issue of where in the first round. 

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5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree with you here.  The only people I remember questioning guys like OG or Zeller going are guys that openly claim to not watch much or any NBA.  There was sometimes talk about should a guy like OG come back to boost his stock to higher in the first round, but no one questioned rather or not he would get drafted in the first round.  It was an issue of where in the first round. 

I am positive that you are not talking about me. Though I admit to being one who does not watch, nor care much for the NBA. I never said that either OG or Cody were not ready for the NBA. Although I had doubts about Thomas.   My only gripe with them is that they left early. Knowing what they could have offered, had they stayed.

Just wanted to make that clear.  Everyone has the right to move on.... I just don't like it.

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3 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I am positive that you are not talking about me. Though I admit to being one who does not watch, nor care much for the NBA. I never said that either OG or Cody were not ready for the NBA. Although I had doubts about Thomas.   My only gripe with them is that they left early. Knowing what they could have offered, had they stayed.

Just wanted to make that clear.  Everyone has the right to move on.... I just don't like it.

I was not talking about you, you are correct!  I know your issue is guys leaving early, not rather or not they are ready. 

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2 hours ago, addictedtoIU said:

Mile, you said it best!

That’s exactly (worded better and more succinct) what I’ve been saying. The only difference is you’re saying we should fire the coach if the title doesn’t come in the first 10 years, I’m saying if we’re consistently one of the top teams in the country but the title hasn’t come yet I wouldn’t fire the coach. 

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2 hours ago, addictedtoIU said:

Just out of curiosity, I took a look at coach Heathcote's career at MSU. In his 19 year career at MSU, he had 1 championship, 1 EE, and 2 SS (340 wins and 220 losses). 

Izzo, during his 22 seasons at MSU (by end of last season), he had 1 championship, 6 FF, 2 EE, 4 SS (542 wins 220 losses). 

Izzo IS the best coach MSU has ever had. 

To be honest I liked Heathcoate.  But if you take those Magic teams off his resume and it doesn't look stellar.  Winning the championship probably gave him a job for life.

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