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Big Ten cancelling fall football...


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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

How'd that work for MLB? 

Last I knew, games still being played and the season is progressing. Some teams have been affected, but life goes on.

Players know what they're getting into. Believe it or not, college athletes are adults and should be treated like they are. Let them make their own decisions on what's best for them. If an individual is uncomfortable and wants to opt out, no repercussions to that decision, even if it occurs mid-season. 

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18 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Schools can't control what students do with their personal life, but they have put measures in place to enforce mask wearing and social distancing. They don't feel they can safely do that for sports. 

But just having students and staff on campus poses a risk even with masks and social distancing.   If they were truly concerned about the well being of students and staff their stance would have been online courses and no campus housing.   I'm not for that btw but just saying it should be all or nothing.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

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2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

It is just not abut people dying from the virus but the unknown on what this virus can do to your long term health.

You are right...it's an unknown. So why is it being treated like it's an absolute? Until proven that there are long term implications to one's health, why are athlete's being dictated to?

The young man from IU who developed some heart issues, and whose mother made an impassioned plea on social media. We'll never know due to HIPPA laws, but what if he had pre-existing conditions, even undetected, that led to the challenge he now faces.

Life has to go on. People must be able to make decisions about their own lives, their own health, their own futures. If allowed to decide, and they decide to participate, then if things go bad they can opt out. In the right environment, no one but the players are going to be exposed to each other. Let them be in control of their own lives

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27 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

You are right...it's an unknown. So why is it being treated like it's an absolute? Until proven that there are long term implications to one's health, why are athlete's being dictated to?

The young man from IU who developed some heart issues, and whose mother made an impassioned plea on social media. We'll never know due to HIPPA laws, but what if he had pre-existing conditions, even undetected, that led to the challenge he now faces.

Life has to go on. People must be able to make decisions about their own lives, their own health, their own futures. If allowed to decide, and they decide to participate, then if things go bad they can opt out. In the right environment, no one but the players are going to be exposed to each other. Let them be in control of their own lives

A Boston Red Sox pitcher you tested positive for the virus is now out for the year due to a new heart condition.  You also know if they went ahead and play and a player dies from getting the virus while playing, that family will be there to sue the school.

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What bothers me most about this, and why I am so adamant that young adults should be able to determine their own fate really was reinforced when I listened to the press conference with Kevin Warren after the announcement to shut down the season was made.

He was asked several times what changed from 6(now 7) days ago when the schedule was announced, and he provided no details.

He was asked what medical information specifically came to light that caused the decision....nothing.

He was asked what they would look for, specifically, as indicators that there was enough improvement to consider restarting....nothing.

As I have said before, this decision was less about protecting athletes--those measures are already in place--and more about protecting jobs, livelihoods, and reputations-of the administrators. 

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17 hours ago, Indy1987 said:

If I started smoking when I was 15 and continued smoking until I was 70 and then get Covid and died... My dumbass died from smoking!!!    Likewise if I ate McDonald's everyday then get Covid and died...my unhealthy dumbass died from a poopy diet.  

Not trying to sound heartless here but maybe if people would take responsibility for their own daily health in the 1st place they would be fairing better.   I personally know 3 people that have had Covid.  All recovered although the one that is overweight and does not live a healthy/active lifestyle suffered for a month in the hospital.

Sure some people are born with conditions that make them susceptible.  They(along with the elderly) are they ones we need to isolate and help.   

Go Hoosiers!!!

Disagree. If you have an underlying condition for a long time and live with it, then get Covid and die, then Covid finished you off. My grandma smoked for over 60 years and died after a mistake in the manufacturing of the blood thinner she was on. My family and I spent the next 5 years following up on a class action lawsuit against the company that made the medicine. We didn't blame her death on cigarettes. 

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23 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

What bothers me most about this, and why I am so adamant that young adults should be able to determine their own fate really was reinforced when I listened to the press conference with Kevin Warren after the announcement to shut down the season was made.

He was asked several times what changed from 6(now 7) days ago when the schedule was announced, and he provided no details.

He was asked what medical information specifically came to light that caused the decision....nothing.

He was asked what they would look for, specifically, as indicators that there was enough improvement to consider restarting....nothing.

As I have said before, this decision was less about protecting athletes--those measures are already in place--and more about protecting jobs, livelihoods, and reputations-of the administrators. 

I don't totally agree that these kids should chose whether or not to make this decision.  If your a parent you sometimes have to make unpopular decisions that your kids don't agree with.  Sometimes you have t save people from themselves.

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4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

So far for 27 of 30 teams it's working perfect.

I wouldn't say those numbers are accurate because when those teams who has people with covid effects everyone on their schedule. Like the Reds they have played 17 games so far but the Cardinals has played 5 games because of the virus.  So every team that was on the Cardinals schedule is effected.

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32 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

 You also know if they went ahead and play and a player dies from getting the virus while playing, that family will be there to sue the school.

Is the player dying on the field because of Covid?  Or, are they dying at the hospital?

I ask because it's going to be difficult to 100% prove exactly where an individual first came into contact with the virus.  And, you typically need 100%, or close to it, when filing a lawsuit.

There is no guarantee the athlete acquired the virus while playing a sport.  The could have got it from going to school.  Eating in a restaurant.  Maybe picked it up at the grocery.  Possibly could have caught it at home from an asymptomatic family member. 

Unless the player actually dies on the field and the medical experts can directly tie the death to Covid while the player was on the field, I don't see where a lawsuit like that has any legs to it.  I know if I'm a defense attorney, you're going to have top proved to me that not only did participating in a sport while having Covid caused death, you're going to have to prove to me that the player actually acquired the virus in the first place because they were playing that sport.  

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Just now, 5fouls said:

Is the player dying on the field because of Covid?  Or, are they dying at the hospital?

I ask because it's going to be difficult to 100% prove exactly where an individual first came into contact with the virus.  And, you typically need 100%, or close to it, when filing a lawsuit.

There is no guarantee the athlete acquired the virus while playing a sport.  The could have got it from going to school.  Eating in a restaurant.  Maybe picked it up at the grocery.  Possibly could have caught it at home from an asymptomatic family member. 

Unless the player actually dies on the field and the medical experts can directly tie the death to Covid while the player was on the field, I don't see where a lawsuit like that has any legs to it.  I know if I'm a defense attorney, you're going to have top proved to me that not only did participating in a sport while having Covid caused death, you're going to have to prove to me that the player actually acquired the virus in the first place because they were playing that sport.  

I guess it depends how often they get tested. If it is daily it would be pretty easy to figure it out

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28 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Disagree. If you have an underlying condition for a long time and live with it, then get Covid and die, then Covid finished you off. My grandma smoked for over 60 years and died after a mistake in the manufacturing of the blood thinner she was on. My family and I spent the next 5 years following up on a class action lawsuit against the company that made the medicine. We didn't blame her death on cigarettes. 

First off... so sorry for your loss.   My point was people's disregard for their own health in most instances leads to the main cause of their lives ending sooner.  Smoking leads to poor lungs which leads to a weakened immune system which leads to a shorter lifespan.  Yes covid "finished off" but it wouldn't have if living healthy lifestyle.

I do think your grandmother's case is different and hope you won.

Go Hoosiers!!!

 

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33 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Is the player dying on the field because of Covid?  Or, are they dying at the hospital?

I ask because it's going to be difficult to 100% prove exactly where an individual first came into contact with the virus.  And, you typically need 100%, or close to it, when filing a lawsuit.

There is no guarantee the athlete acquired the virus while playing a sport.  The could have got it from going to school.  Eating in a restaurant.  Maybe picked it up at the grocery.  Possibly could have caught it at home from an asymptomatic family member. 

Unless the player actually dies on the field and the medical experts can directly tie the death to Covid while the player was on the field, I don't see where a lawsuit like that has any legs to it.  I know if I'm a defense attorney, you're going to have top proved to me that not only did participating in a sport while having Covid caused death, you're going to have to prove to me that the player actually acquired the virus in the first place because they were playing that sport.  

Exactly. Been saying this since the news broke yesterday. Proximate cause and chain of causation are two terms everyone should familiarize themselves with. No attorney that's ever been in a deposition or courtroom would go to battle knowing they would have to absolutely prove where the virus was contracted. Settlement central. Could be some $ sure but this fear of liability and potential lawsuits is BS compared to the revenues lost this season....and all of the communities who employ thousands for 7-8 home football weekends.

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26 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I guess it depends how often they get tested. If it is daily it would be pretty easy to figure it out

I'm not so sure about that.  You get tested on Monday and are clean, but get tested on Tuesday and are positive.  I don't know that you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person was infected on Monday.  Maybe they picked it up Sunday while at home visiting with family and friends.  

And, you also have to factor in reliability of the tests.  From Matthew Stafford, to Jimmie Johnson, to the Governor of Ohio, how many people have tested positive one day only to turn around and test negative multiple times afterwards?  

Let me be clear.  I'm not advocating whether they should or should not play.  I think there are compelling arguments to support both positions.  But, one thing I do caution anyone on is in expecting perfection.  We are not going to be there in 2020, 2021, or even 2052.  People are going to be getting sick and dying of the Coronavirus in 2120, just like people are still getting sick and diseases that have been around for centuries before now.  A vaccine is not a cure.  

What we need to decide on is when to get back to normal, or properly define what our new normal looks like.  It seems to me that the expectations some have of what that new normal looks like does not have room in it for team sports.  

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2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm not so sure about that.  You get tested on Monday and are clean, but get tested on Tuesday and are positive.  I don't know that you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person was infected on Monday.  Maybe they picked it up Sunday while at home visiting with family and friends.  

And, you also have to factor in reliability of the tests.  From Matthew Stafford, to Jimmie Johnson, to the Governor of Ohio, how many people have tested positive one day only to turn around and test negative multiple times afterwards?  

Let me be clear.  I'm not advocating whether they should or should not play.  I think there are compelling arguments to support both positions.  But, one thing I do caution anyone on is in expecting perfection.  We are not going to be there in 2020, 2021, or even 2052.  People are going to be getting sick and dying of the Coronavirus in 2120, just like people are still getting sick and diseases that have been around for centuries before now.  A vaccine is not a cure.  

What we need to decide on is when to get back to normal, or properly define what our new normal looks like.  It seems to me that the expectations some have of what that new normal looks like does not have room in it for team sports.  

There seems to be a lot of misconception out there about a vaccine.  Most of the people I've talked to seem to think that the vaccine will be some cure all like a polio vaccine.   You get it and then you're completely immune for the next decade or maybe life.  That's not going to be the case, right?  It's going to be like the flu vaccine where it just decreases your risk of getting it or getting serious complications.  I think Dr. Fauci said it will likely be about 50% effective.  That will probably vary year by year and whether the virus mutates or not.  Bottom line, this isn't going away and there will never be a perfect time to resume sports.  We can either accept this and some risk or give up the things we love forever. 

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41 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Is the player dying on the field because of Covid?  Or, are they dying at the hospital?

I ask because it's going to be difficult to 100% prove exactly where an individual first came into contact with the virus.  And, you typically need 100%, or close to it, when filing a lawsuit.

There is no guarantee the athlete acquired the virus while playing a sport.  The could have got it from going to school.  Eating in a restaurant.  Maybe picked it up at the grocery.  Possibly could have caught it at home from an asymptomatic family member. 

Unless the player actually dies on the field and the medical experts can directly tie the death to Covid while the player was on the field, I don't see where a lawsuit like that has any legs to it.  I know if I'm a defense attorney, you're going to have top proved to me that not only did participating in a sport while having Covid caused death, you're going to have to prove to me that the player actually acquired the virus in the first place because they were playing that sport.  

Here's an interesting read on tracing that was done in China.

https://www.newsweek.com/china-superspreader-travel-elevator-1517320

So I suppose you could trace where a player got it.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

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10 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Exactly. Been saying this since the news broke yesterday. Proximate cause and chain of causation are two terms everyone should familiarize themselves with. No attorney that's ever been in a deposition or courtroom would go to battle knowing they would have to absolutely prove where the virus was contracted. Settlement central. Could be some $ sure but this fear of liability and potential lawsuits is BS compared to the revenues lost this season....and all of the communities who employ thousands for 7-8 home football weekends.

I am not just  looking at law suites but if a kid has a long term illness the school could be liable for the medical bills for his lifetime.  I guess if it is proven he got it while at school.

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11 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm not so sure about that.  You get tested on Monday and are clean, but get tested on Tuesday and are positive.  I don't know that you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person was infected on Monday.  Maybe they picked it up Sunday while at home visiting with family and friends.  

And, you also have to factor in reliability of the tests.  From Matthew Stafford, to Jimmie Johnson, to the Governor of Ohio, how many people have tested positive one day only to turn around and test negative multiple times afterwards?  

Let me be clear.  I'm not advocating whether they should or should not play.  I think there are compelling arguments to support both positions.  But, one thing I do caution anyone on is in expecting perfection.  We are not going to be there in 2020, 2021, or even 2052.  People are going to be getting sick and dying of the Coronavirus in 2120, just like people are still getting sick and diseases that have been around for centuries before now.  A vaccine is not a cure.  

What we need to decide on is when to get back to normal, or properly define what our new normal looks like.  It seems to me that the expectations some have of what that new normal looks like does not have room in it for team sports.  

Actually I don't really know how accurate my test was.  I tested positive but a couple months later I tested negative for the antibodies.

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My heart

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Actually I don't really know how accurate my test was.  I tested positive but a couple months later I tested negative for the antibodies.

My heart breaks for you.  It has been a long struggle for you.  Stay tough. And know that Hoosier Nation is pulling for you.

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3 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

Here's an interesting read on tracing that was done in China.

https://www.newsweek.com/china-superspreader-travel-elevator-1517320

So I suppose you could trace where a player got it.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

I can argue several things that would question the certainty of who the initial carrier was.  Yes.  a line can be drawn from point A to point B in this instance.  But, there are an infinite number of intersecting line possibilities that the story does not consider. 

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Just now, milehiiu said:

My heart

My heart breaks for you.  It has been a long struggle for you.  Stay tough. And know that Hoosier Nation is pulling for you.

For the most part I am doing well but some days I feel more fatigued than others.  I am actually more relaxed now not working and I was working but that will end when my unemployment dries up

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