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State of Emergency in Louisville


5fouls

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5 minutes ago, rico said:

I agree that it appears the police acted erroneously.  But is it worth looting and burning Louisville?  I mean come on, you disagree with what has happened and is happening and people vent their frustrations with criminal activity of their own?  2 wrongs don't make a right.

Oh definitely not into the looting and burning. That's not cool. But at same time, I understand why people get angry and take to the streets.

Two wrongs definitely do not make a right, but often people only focus on the second wrong (looting and burning) without acknowledging the first wrong. Not saying you are, Rico.

I'll tap out of this thread as I don't want to make the moderators job a living hell today.

Also hoping for peace in Louisville when the announcement comes.

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1 minute ago, Lostin76 said:

Oh definitely not into the looting and burning. That's not cool. But at same time, I understand why people get angry and take to the streets.

Two wrongs definitely do not make a right, but often people only focus on the second wrong (looting and burning) without acknowledging the first wrong. Not saying you are, Rico.

I'll tap out of this thread as I don't want to make the moderators job a living hell today.

Also hoping for peace in Louisville when the announcement comes.

Amen Bro...praying for cooler heads and some sense of civility.

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1 hour ago, Lostin76 said:

I agree with this statement with a slight twist - I guess it's too much to ask *police* to act like adults and control themselves. It wouldn't be such a mess if they did so in the first place. Sounded like a small gang of Barney Fife's were involved in this one.

I'll agree on this point. Police officers need to drop a little of the "machismo" and act like professionals. Case in point...

About 8 months ago BC (Before Covid), my wife and I had a late Friday night dinner at one of our favorite spots. We were on the main road in the small town we live in, about a mile from home. A Texas State cop pulls up behind me, and lights me up. Now, the small town I live in, and the string of towns on that part of I-59 are well known for deriving at least some of their revenue from traffic citations. I got the only traffic citation of my life at 5 am going to work (40 in a 35) there. So I strictly obey all traffic laws when I'm driving there...

So the officer comes up, and the first thing he asks is "Where ya going?" The first response that came to my mind was, "Why does that matter?"(with a few words that are against forum policy sprinkled in), but I said, "Going home." He asked me if I knew why he'd stopped me, and I said " I have no idea." He asked me if I knew how fast I was going, and I said, " the posted speed limit, 35" which was true. He then said, "you sure you weren't doing 40?" I told him "positive."

Then he asked me where we were coming from. Although it was none of his business, I told him. He the asked for my DL and insurance. He stuck his face pretty close, I think trying to see if I'd been drinking (I hadn't). He was very cocky the whole time.

While getting out my DL, he had a light trained on my wallet. I have a double paned insert that I keep my DL on one side, and my military ID on the other. He spots the military ID and says, "You're military?" I said, "yes, retired." 

He immediately says " Have a nice night." Gets in his car and leaves.

Now, I'm proud of my service to this country, and I enjoy and appreciate it when someone recognizes it and thanks me, but in that case, I was pissed. He had no reason to pull me over. His questions were BS. He was "fishing" for a DUI or something else. 

I could have made a stink by saying what I really thought, and I can see why some people do. But I was always taught hands on the wheel, be polite, and answer the question. 

I don't think that should be what law enforcement in this country should be. 

But I also think that the idea that police brutality is rampant is wrong as well. 

There's middle ground here. I'm all for training the police force in handling situation they face differently sometimes. I'm also think these people who want change need to acknowledge that compliance with a reasonable law officer is key. 

We can't let fringe groups or thinking decide the issue. 

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9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I'll agree on this point. Police officers need to drop a little of the "machismo" and act like professionals. Case in point...

About 8 months ago BC (Before Covid), my wife and I had a late Friday night dinner at one of our favorite spots. We were on the main road in the small town we live in, about a mile from home. A Texas State cop pulls up behind me, and lights me up. Now, the small town I live in, and the string of towns on that part of I-59 are well known for deriving at least some of their revenue from traffic citations. I got the only traffic citation of my life at 5 am going to work (40 in a 35) there. So I strictly obey all traffic laws when I'm driving there...

So the officer comes up, and the first thing he asks is "Where ya going?" The first response that came to my mind was, "Why does that matter?"(with a few words that are against forum policy sprinkled in), but I said, "Going home." He asked me if I knew why he'd stopped me, and I said " I have no idea." He asked me if I knew how fast I was going, and I said, " the posted speed limit, 35" which was true. He then said, "you sure you weren't doing 40?" I told him "positive."

Then he asked me where we were coming from. Although it was none of his business, I told him. He the asked for my DL and insurance. He stuck his face pretty close, I think trying to see if I'd been drinking (I hadn't). He was very cocky the whole time.

While getting out my DL, he had a light trained ony wallet. I have a double paned insert that I keep my DL on one side, and my military ID on the other. He spots the military ID and says, "You're military?" I said, "yes, retired." 

He immediately says " Have a nice night." Gets in his car and leaves.

Now, I'm proud of my service to this country, and I enjoy and appreciate it when someone recognizes it and thanks me, but in that case, I was pissed. He had no reason to pull me over. His questions were BS. He was "fishing" for a DUI or something else. 

I could have made a stink by saying what I really thought, and I can see why some people do. But I was always taught hands on the wheel, be polite, and answer the question. 

I don't think that should be what law enforcement in this country should be. 

But I also think that the idea that police brutality is rampant is wrong as well. 

There's middle ground here. I'm all for training the police force in handling situation they face differently sometimes. I'm also think these people who want change need to acknowledge that compliance with a reasonable law officer is key. 

We can't let fringe groups or thinking decide the issue. 

I would venture to say a helluva lot of people on this board have had bad interactions with police.  Lord knows I have.  But I have lived to talk about it.

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15 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

That's a very interesting question.  The man was absolutely revered in the city.   I think he would have had major influence in how all of this evolved.

I would say the complexion of the events to unfold would be extremely tempered if Ali was around.

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32 minutes ago, rico said:

I would venture to say a helluva lot of people on this board have had bad interactions with police.  Lord knows I have.  But I have lived to talk about it.

I will say this in defense of law enforcement...The vast majority of my interactions with them have been positive. 

I will also say, it's got to be one of the toughest, most stressful jobs around. Think about it. Think about going up to a complete stranger's car who is probably already pissed/nervous for getting pulled over in the first place. That has to be stressful. I wouldn't want to do it, and I was in a job that's considered on the high end of the stress scale (ATC) for 20 years. But I was pretty sure none of the planes I talked to were going to take a shot at me.

I do not agree with the no knock warrants. Sounds like a recipe for more of this type of stuff to take place.

That said, if the officers were operating under the current laws and rules of engagement, then follow the laws.  

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18 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

All I know from my experience is, pounding on someone's door in the middle of the night is a recipe for disaster. Police should not be executing warrants of any kind in the middle of the night. 

Looks like a decision coming this afternoon. 

It would be a recipe for disaster at my house...

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One 'expert' is suggesting that the charges indicate that it is unlikely that the shots from this officer are the ones that killed her.  Otherwise, he feels the charges would have been different.  If true, combined with the fact the other officers were not charged at all, it raises the question about who actually fired the fatal shots.

 

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4 hours ago, IUFLA said:

I'll agree on this point. Police officers need to drop a little of the "machismo" and act like professionals. Case in point...

About 8 months ago BC (Before Covid), my wife and I had a late Friday night dinner at one of our favorite spots. We were on the main road in the small town we live in, about a mile from home. A Texas State cop pulls up behind me, and lights me up. Now, the small town I live in, and the string of towns on that part of I-59 are well known for deriving at least some of their revenue from traffic citations. I got the only traffic citation of my life at 5 am going to work (40 in a 35) there. So I strictly obey all traffic laws when I'm driving there...

So the officer comes up, and the first thing he asks is "Where ya going?" The first response that came to my mind was, "Why does that matter?"(with a few words that are against forum policy sprinkled in), but I said, "Going home." He asked me if I knew why he'd stopped me, and I said " I have no idea." He asked me if I knew how fast I was going, and I said, " the posted speed limit, 35" which was true. He then said, "you sure you weren't doing 40?" I told him "positive."

Then he asked me where we were coming from. Although it was none of his business, I told him. He the asked for my DL and insurance. He stuck his face pretty close, I think trying to see if I'd been drinking (I hadn't). He was very cocky the whole time.

While getting out my DL, he had a light trained on my wallet. I have a double paned insert that I keep my DL on one side, and my military ID on the other. He spots the military ID and says, "You're military?" I said, "yes, retired." 

He immediately says " Have a nice night." Gets in his car and leaves.

Now, I'm proud of my service to this country, and I enjoy and appreciate it when someone recognizes it and thanks me, but in that case, I was pissed. He had no reason to pull me over. His questions were BS. He was "fishing" for a DUI or something else. 

I could have made a stink by saying what I really thought, and I can see why some people do. But I was always taught hands on the wheel, be polite, and answer the question. 

I don't think that should be what law enforcement in this country should be. 

But I also think that the idea that police brutality is rampant is wrong as well. 

There's middle ground here. I'm all for training the police force in handling situation they face differently sometimes. I'm also think these people who want change need to acknowledge that compliance with a reasonable law officer is key. 

We can't let fringe groups or thinking decide the issue. 

I'll add that the large majority of police are good and do things the right way. A few are power hungry types and there will always be a few bad apples (in any profession).

I've witnessed police "fishing" before. Minorities get pulled over partly because there is more crime in some minority areas and, therefore, more police. Police are going to be put where there is crime. Another group that gets targeted are teenagers. My son has been pulled over 5 times or so in the past year because he worked late and drove a truck that, well, looked like a teenagers truck. These were all "fishing" attempts as he was never given a warning or a ticket.  It was very common 30 years ago during the age of SADD and MADD that police would pull over teens driving late at night looking for dui arrests.

As for the Louisville incident, 20 shots may seem like a lot until you consider there were multiple officers shooting and it lasted only a few seconds. They were doing what they were trained to do which is likely why you saw the result that came out today. 

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1 minute ago, Reacher said:

I'll add that the large majority of police are good and do things the right way. A few are power hungry types and there will always be a few bad apples (in any profession).

I've witnessed police "fishing" before. Minorities get pulled over partly because there are more violence in some minority areas. Another group that gets targeted are teenagers. My son has been pulled over 5 times or so in the past year because he worked late and drove a truck that, well, looked like a teenagers truck. These were all "fishing" attempts as he was never given a warning or a ticket.  It was very common 30 years ago during the age of SADD and MADD that police would pull over teens driving late at night looking for dui arrests.

As for the Louisville incident, 20 shots may seem like a lot until you consider there were multiple officers shooting and it lasted only a few seconds. They were doing what they were trained to do which is likely why you saw the result that came out today. 

My brother and I were driving down to Bloomington for a basketball game a few years back. I was driving a 10 year old Lexus SUV and was wearing my IU hoodie. My brother had a flat cap on. We got pulled over on I-69 and when I asked the officer why, he told me "he'd let me know if a few minutes." Certain that I was being profiled. Once the guy determined I was not a drug runner, he made up some story about me following to closely to the car in front of me. Meanwhile, semis passed us within a few feet of the cars they were following. 

If two old white dudes can be pulled over just because, I can only imagine what a black man goes through every time he sees a police car in his rear view mirror.

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22 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

One 'expert' is suggesting that the charges indicate that it is unlikely that the shots from this officer are the ones that killed her.  Otherwise, he feels the charges would have been different.  If true, combined with the fact the other officers were not charged at all, it raises the question about who actually fired the fatal shots.

 

So was this expert suggesting her boyfriend fired the fatal shot(s)? Someone on the grassy knoll?

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7 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

So was this expert suggesting her boyfriend fired the fatal shot(s)? Someone on the grassy knoll?

Attorney general just announced that the fatal shot was fired by one of the other officers (not the one that was charged or the one that was shot) and it was a justified shooting.

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