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The state of the NBA (and other major professional sports)

FKIM01

By FKIM01
in General Basketball Discussion

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

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1 hour ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I want to love the NBA but why watch a league where only 7-10 teams have a shot to win?

Say what you want about the NFL, but they figured out how to have parity, which no other league has done.

Good point, with some give and take.

The NBA draft and free agency have not worked well for parity, at least in the short term -- you do see teams like Golden State, Cleveland, the Bucks, etc. grow into powerhouses over time, so it's not like it's only 7-10 teams consistently, but it is in the short term.

The NFL has done a much better job, imo, in developing overall parity, but in fairness that's also a reflection of the number of players on a football team -- no one player can fundamentally effect a football team's success -- and the limited number of games in football compared to basketball and other sports.

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FKIM01

FKIM01

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38 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

You know, I always hear "it's the players game."

No it's not...It's the FAN'S game. Without us, in ALL sports, it's just men and women playing youth sports...

We're all here mainly because of Indiana University basketball...How many players have passed through the 57 years I've been an IU fan? Yet, here I am...Same goes for the Bears, Cubs, Pacers, and before the Pacers the Boston Celtics...

While I marvel at the athleticism and dexterity superior athletes possess, watching them is not something I cannot do without. Plenty of other things I can spend my time (and money) on...

Speaking of, the last time I went to a pro sporting event (Cubs Astros baseball game) I spent over $400 all told...

Better things to do with that...

Good post.  For me, the cost of many of these events has simply risen above what I perceive as my value in attending them.  Some of the attitudes I've seen on display recently don't help either.  I've never liked being preached to and lectured on how I should think and behave by millionaires, especially when I observe their  their own personal flaws and care-free financial lifestyle.

More and more what I see when I watch the big three professional sports are tremendously skilled athletes that often appear to have lost their passion and love of the game.  I can't imagine Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson talking about "load management."  They'd be on the floor whether they had the flu or were still hung over from the previous night's bender.  Unless I'm mis-remembering here, Larry Bird played much of the latter part of his career with some serious back pain.  Today, I see more interest in players looking cool than displaying the unbridled love of the game.

There are absolutely some genuinely good people in professional sports.  I'm biased but I love my hometown hero Cody Zeller.  I don't hear him lecturing the masses, but I do see him volunteering his time and being generous with his money.  He seems to get it and I think he very much loves the game.  I used to feel the same way about Vic, but recent rumblings have left me wondering how much he's changed.

I'll never understand the desire to push a narrative that is controversial when your "clients" could possibly have significantly different views on said narrative.  Business 101 says you avoid subjects unrelated to business, especially when they have the potential to be controversial or cause disagreement.  I've always lived by that and served a lot of people with widely diverse views and beliefs.  Of course you have a right to get on your soapbox and share your manifesto, but you must be prepared for the possible consequences, which usually include shrinking your potential customer base.  I don't see why that simple truth appears so hard for some to grasp.

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Hoosierhoopster

Hoosierhoopster

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On the OP, it's a really interesting discussion/point of view. 

I can say I'm less driven by sports generally, now in my 50's, life and work in general have my attention, sports have moved more and more into the background. I still love college basketball, and hope and look forward to the B1G getting it going soon, but I am not devastated of get angry when 'my team' loses. It's a basketball "game." 

And what is 'my team?' I graduated from IU in '88. I love IU, but, well, we're talking college kids playing basketball for a school I attended in the 80s. Yes, it's my school, I love IU/my IU, but -- the but here -- the kids playing for IU are my kids' age, and other than going to/graduating from IU decades ago (and my mom working with the President for years -- hey, she wrote the plaque on the Sample Gates), it's not like I have a real connection to the players, team or school. I root for IU, I want to see IU win another NC, but it doesn't drive my life or mood, and hey, it shouldn't.

A lot of negativity here on the NBA -- I enjoy the NBA, the level of basketball is miles above college ball, it just is. The players are the best in the world. However, I really dislike the way a team like the Lakers can be built overnight and then, even a seriously weak Lakers team other than LBJ and Unibrow (yes, it is) can basically cakewalk to the Finals after a pretty weak playoff schedule courtesy of how things went down. To HF's point earlier, it is generally the same few teams that have any real shot at a title, year in and year out, at least in the short term, and I agree it would really help the NBA overall if they worked out a better system to develop more parity. I think the pendulum has swung too far in giving players power. Players should have power, but I think they have too much now. Ownership, though, too -- the League itself needs more power vis a vis the players, imo.

 

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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 Just a question did you grow up in Indiana and follow Iu as a kid.  Even though I did not attend IU- Bloomington I was an IU fan since i can remember watching sports.  Saying that I just seem to hav emore connection following IU basketball than i do any other team.  I always watched the Pacers and at first they were hirrible but still watched but still not the way I did IU.  I was 14 when the Colts moved to Indy and started following them but still don't have the passion I do with IU.  To me college sports is just not following the best players in the world but the overall experience of the college game over the pros.  Yes the NBA has the best basketball players but i don't don't watch it for talent but watch for the overall atmposphere of the game.

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Steubenhoosier

Steubenhoosier

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Stopped watching the NBA over 20 years ago.

As much as I talk about my beloved Twins, I don't watch baseball on television. Even with the rule changes this year, the games are too slow and it has become either Bomba Squad or strike out. Now going to a game is different.

Love watching the Stanley Cup playoffs, due to the passion the players show from the drop of the puck in game 1 to the champs hoisting the cup at the end. Can't get excited about watching a mid week game played by two mid-tier teams. Like others have said, oversaturation is an issue.

Will watch most NFL games, often due to the Fantasy implications. I try to watch the games for the enjoyment of the level of competition, and not get too wrapped up in the political stuff, although this year that's been tougher.

To the OP, I think one of the main issues that all professional sports have to face and deal with is that more is not necessarily better. From a player's health standpoint to consumer's wallets to quality of play, I think most sports leagues would be better served with shorter calendars, and in some cases, less teams.

 

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IowaHoosierFan

IowaHoosierFan

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I have tried to watch the NBA and its not even basketball.  I don't know if they actually have rules but if they door they all fit on a very small piece of paper.  Its unwatchable to me.  And as mentioned before, their largest fanbase is 10-20 yo kids.

For the NFL, the announcers and the politics have really pushed me off.  Mostly i have it in the background and completely forgot about the games last night, and then right in the middle was a political statement made by a player.  There is enough about politics and everything in all things, i don't need it while watching a game.  Do it afterwards at your press conference that i don't watch.

College has always been low on my priority, although i like watching the Irish.

Haven't watched a baseball game all year, just weird i don't really care anymore.

And as far as IU BB, i am always excited for the season, but i don't get nearly as excited or heartbroken as i did and i don't schedule things around games anymore.  Maybe if we were consistently in the race for a championship i would be that way again, but who know.

Sports just don't really mean much to me anymore.

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Euroclydon

Euroclydon

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The NBA decided they would rather be a woke joke instead of a sports league. I have no interest in what they do and unless they change their ways I won't be watching anything they do. And when it comes to Lebron, I'd rather watch paint dry than a man who is bought and sold by China and has nothing to say about the slave labor used to make him and Nike rich.

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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33 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Stopped watching the NBA over 20 years ago.

As much as I talk about my beloved Twins, I don't watch baseball on television. Even with the rule changes this year, the games are too slow and it has become either Bomba Squad or strike out. Now going to a game is different.

Love watching the Stanley Cup playoffs, due to the passion the players show from the drop of the puck in game 1 to the champs hoisting the cup at the end. Can't get excited about watching a mid week game played by two mid-tier teams. Like others have said, oversaturation is an issue.

Will watch most NFL games, often due to the Fantasy implications. I try to watch the games for the enjoyment of the level of competition, and not get too wrapped up in the political stuff, although this year that's been tougher.

To the OP, I think one of the main issues that all professional sports have to face and deal with is that more is not necessarily better. From a player's health standpoint to consumer's wallets to quality of play, I think most sports leagues would be better served with shorter calendars, and in some cases, less teams.

 

I agree with you that the seasons are to long in the NBA and MLB.  Also it would be better for the sport if each league would eliminate about 6 teams.  To me there are way to many players playing that are not at the quality of a major league player who wouldn't have been in th eleaagued 30 years ago.  This would dispurse the players more evenly and each team would have at leasgt 2 really good players.

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FKIM01

FKIM01

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Random reactions...

Interesting points made on saturation.  I remember growing up, we had three networks.  Sunday meant football until ABC created Monday Night Football, which was WILDLY popular, probably mostly because it was the only game in town.  It literally had no competition, so saturation is likely a contributing factor.

@Hoosierhoopster, we are the same age and graduated the same year, although I was at USI.  I find a lot of similarities with your post.  Sports occupies a much smaller section of my priority list than it used to, so it's not hard for me to lose interest when things change.  I just wonder if I'll ever get it back.  My 86-year-old mother-in-law still watches NASCAR regularly but I couldn't tell you who the main competitors are.  This from a guy who used to love watching Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart go at it and rarely ever missed a race.

Conversely, I DO enjoy MMA...probably due to the action and unpredictability and it's largely devoid of all the outside drama, though it too appears to be getting more political.  Hopefully they see how that's hurt other sports and just get back to the game.  After watching MMA, I can't even watch regular boxing anymore.

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Hoosierhoopster

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

 Just a question did you grow up in Indiana and follow Iu as a kid.  Even though I did not attend IU- Bloomington I was an IU fan since i can remember watching sports.  Saying that I just seem to hav emore connection following IU basketball than i do any other team.  I always watched the Pacers and at first they were hirrible but still watched but still not the way I did IU.  I was 14 when the Colts moved to Indy and started following them but still don't have the passion I do with IU.  To me college sports is just not following the best players in the world but the overall experience of the college game over the pros.  Yes the NBA has the best basketball players but i don't don't watch it for talent but watch for the overall atmposphere of the game.

If directed to me, grew up in Bloomington from the age of 6, was in Bloomington for the 76, 81 and 87 NC, the last as a junior at IU. So yes.

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Hoosierhoopster

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13 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Random reactions...

Interesting points made on saturation.  I remember growing up, we had three networks.  Sunday meant football until ABC created Monday Night Football, which was WILDLY popular, probably mostly because it was the only game in town.  It literally had no competition, so saturation is likely a contributing factor.

@Hoosierhoopster, we are the same age and graduated the same year, although I was at USI.  I find a lot of similarities with your post.  Sports occupies a much smaller section of my priority list than it used to, so it's not hard for me to lose interest when things change.  I just wonder if I'll ever get it back.  My 86-year-old mother-in-law still watches NASCAR regularly but I couldn't tell you who the main competitors are.  This from a guy who used to love watching Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart go at it and rarely ever missed a race.

Conversely, I DO enjoy MMA...probably due to the action and unpredictability and it's largely devoid of all the outside drama, though it too appears to be getting more political.  Hopefully they see how that's hurt other sports and just get back to the game.  After watching MMA, I can't even watch regular boxing anymore.

Both my mother and paternal grandmother played college basketball. My grandmother followed her team -- UVA -- religiously until the end of her days. (I miss those days -- watching college ball with Grans.) 

I think it's hard right now to really think about whether / how our interest levels will change. The world in this COVID environment is so far from normal, and sports are so affected, I think we're just going to be in an unknown area for some time. I am looking forward to getting back to college bball -- real college bball not empty arenas -- at some point.

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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38 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Why? In the grand scheme of things, they're simply passing through. I loved Ernie Banks, but when he retired, I didn't forsake the Cubs...

 

The players shouldn't have the power to determine where each player plays.  They have no investment in the franchise or the league since they did not put any money into the league.  They are an employee who works for the league and nothing more.

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IUFLA

IUFLA

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14 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Players should have the power because our entertainment is watching them play.  They are the product.

I don't watch teams play because of individual players. I watch MY teams play because they've been my team since I was a kid.

Players come and go...

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Steubenhoosier

Steubenhoosier

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I am on both sides of the fence on this.

 I agree that the players should have some share of “the pie.” They are the product, but the revenue produced is based on the quality of said product.

On the other hand, the players are just employees in the aspect that they should not be dictating who the head coach is (Lebron) what teammates are brought in, or frankly, what the franchise represents. 

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