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Indykev

IPFW post game

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7 hours ago, BGleas said:

It’s going to be tough to win games consistently for this team when our guards/wings are a bunch of streak, 6’1” guards that aren’t overly athletic, can’t shoot, and constantly turn the ball over. It’s just a team terrible guard play. 

The guard play is abysmal, but we can't even count on Deron to have a semi- decent game against competition he should dominate.  He has become a complete joke as well.  This team has severe issues all over the roster.  

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8 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

My impression is that if he doesn't really want to come to IU, he doesn't come to that lame matchup last night on a week night.

Agree- sorry read that wrong.   He may have watched this mess and said "I can start from day 1 with this program."  Who knows, but I think it's clear he is very interested in IU

Edited by hoosier10
Reading Comprehension

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2 minutes ago, hoosier10 said:

He's made a bunch of trips to IU so I think your impression is incorrect.  He may have watched this mess and said "I can start from day 1 with this program."  Who knows, but I think it's clear he is very interested in IU

I think he meant that he's clearly interested or he would not have come to such a lame matchup.

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28 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Decided to look up if Archie’s Dayton teams got torched from three like we have been this season.  Through 12 games, IU is allowing its opponents to shoot 41.3% from three (wow), which puts us at 342nd in the nation.  Here are those stats from Archie’s years at Dayton:

11-12: 33.5% (137th)

12-13: 35.3% (253rd)

13-14: 33.2% (115th)

14-15: 32.4% (81st)

15-16: 34.9% (203rd)

16-17: 32.5% (56th)

So his Dayton teams finished in the top 100 in 3FG% defense twice, they were a bad 3FG% defense twice, and they were a middle of the pack 3FG% defense twice.  I agree with BGleas that this should improve when Archie gets the length he wants into the program.  At the same time, we all wanted a coach who could adapt to the roster he has.  It’s on Archie to change up the game plan when we’re getting lit up from beyond the arc.

Thanks for the stats. As has been said, there's only so much that can be done to fix the problem with this defensive strategy. I can see as we have a team full of 6'6+ guys all over the court playing more of a hybrid defense and what the Warriors do with the Death lineup. 

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Perimeter defense.  IU looks like they are two steps slower than the other teams guards.  It has been this way for the last 5 or 6 years.  Other teams beat our guards off the dribble time after time.  They cannot keep them in front of them and this causes the help situations. Then, come all of the open kick-outs the other teams get for open 3's.  How many times just last night did you see Davis and Morgan help only to have their guy wide open to drain a three.

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1 hour ago, hoosier10 said:

Agree- sorry read that wrong.   He may have watched this mess and said "I can start from day 1 with this program."  Who knows, but I think it's clear he is very interested in IU

He could start today for this team.

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Next year if everyone stays. 

Deron: 6-9, Juwan: 6-7, Clifton: 6-10, Race: 6-8, Hunter: 6-7, Justin Smith: 6-7, Jake Forrester: 6-9, Demezi: 6-5.  

We will have tons of length next year.  It will be interesting to see what happens.  I have a strange feeling we will be much better with an influx of young talent and the graduation of scrubs.

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I thought this team was bad before ND, but had some hope after ND.   However, last night's performance leads me to believe that Saturday was a fluke.

We have book-end losses by 21 & 20 at home to middle of the pack (at best) teams from mid or low conferences.  How many B1G teams can we beat at home?  We beat Iowa, but who else do we have any hope of beating at home?

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12 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I'll be honest.  This forum, which I am very fond of, is the only thing that will keep me engaged with IU hoops the rest of the season.  Not sure how many games I'll watch.  And, I certainly will not go out of my way to watch them.

I just can't do that because no matter how bad we play or upset I get I will still watch every game.  To me if I can't stick with this team during the bad times then I don't deserve to come back when things get better so I will be watching Thursday night.

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12 hours ago, CTrojan88 said:

I am so glad that Crean is gone and have faith that Archie is the guy that will get this ship sailing in the right direction again.  With that said, the more he plays Newkirk and Freddie, the more I question if he is the answer.  Those guys offer nothing......there should be a 3 guard rotation, and a 4-5 man front court rotation.  Shortening the bench to 7 or 8 guys needs to happen to hopefully salvage something out of this season.  Newkirk and Freddy would be behind Priller from this point forward.

Sorry this is ridiculous because you can't judge a coach after 12 games to see if he is the right guy.  Until he gets his players in his system and has a full recruiting cycle then you can judge him

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3 minutes ago, slojoe said:

I thought this team was bad before ND, but had some hope after ND.   However, last night's performance leads me to believe that Saturday was a fluke.

We have book-end losses by 21 & 20 at home to middle of the pack (at best) teams from mid or low conferences.  How many B1G teams can we beat at home?  We beat Iowa, but who else do we have any hope of beating at home?

Saturday's performance was not a fluke. We've played like that in other games this season, just haven't closed the deal.

Monday's performance was a combination of bad leadership and Fort Wayne's national championship game approach. 

I'm just not getting wrapped up in how we looked against FW or ISU as a judgment on our future success. I've been on the mid-major team playing against Big Ten, SEC, ACC, PAC-12 and other Top 25 ranked teams. We beat a good number of them, and rarely got blown out. Really had no business beating some of them, but we got them for one game and we looked forward to it. Our coaches recruited players, and used those scheduled games in part of the pitch. They didn't care about us, we knew that...and it showed on the field. Then those teams would go on to the College World Series, or finish near the top of their conference.

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One has to wonder if the players are doing some thing they shouldn't be doing  - like going to Kilroy's.  Some of them look slow and not sharp.  I will go on to say that Archie preaches toughness - both mentally and physically - these are players recruited by Crean who have played in Crean's system for years (upperclassman) and these guys aren't mentally tough. 

Newkirk is a joke.  I had hope for him when he transferred cause he was coached by Jamie Dixon, but this guy does not fit into Archie's system.  Archie should just play the underclassman, as they have spent less time in Crean's system thus being far more productive on the floor than upperclassman. 

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1 hour ago, hoosier10 said:

I'd challenge anyone to find a worse 1000 point scorer in IU history.  I hate his game so much 

After reading your post, the name Bracey Wright immediately came to mind. I looked up his statistics while at IU, and they aren't nearly as bad as Johnson's have been.

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57 minutes ago, tmoneynow said:

Perimeter defense.  IU looks like they are two steps slower than the other teams guards.  It has been this way for the last 5 or 6 years.  Other teams beat our guards off the dribble time after time.  They cannot keep them in front of them and this causes the help situations. Then, come all of the open kick-outs the other teams get for open 3's.  How many times just last night did you see Davis and Morgan help only to have their guy wide open to drain a three.

Seth Davis alluded to this last night. Said that IU's roster was "slow". Don't know how CAM can coach foot speed. Either you are blessed with it or your not. Yes, conditioning drills can improve speed, but I don't think that's the issue. I think that on the current roster, the ceiling is only so high.

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I didn't see the game last night.  I was too busy showing my 2 boys replay of IU basketball winning Saturday over Notre Dame. 

So my question is why can't we play this defense that  works against Notre Dame with outside shooters but doesn't work against the likes of ISU and Fort Wayne?

One side of me wants to blame the players for not following through, and the other side of me wants to blame the coaching staff because we should never lose to average teams at home, definitely not blown out!

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11 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

I didn't see the game last night.  I was too busy showing my 2 boys replay of IU basketball winning Saturday over Notre Dame. 

So my question is why can't we play this defense that  works against Notre Dame with outside shooters but doesn't work against the likes of ISU and Fort Wayne?

One side of me wants to blame the players for not following through, and the other side of me wants to blame the coaching staff because we should never lose to average teams at home, definitely not blown out!

Notre Dame was a fluke.  The Irish had open looks they just weren't falling or weren't being taken for whatever reason.  ND played a bad game and still should have beat us.  Throw that one out the window.

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27 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

After reading your post, the name Bracey Wright immediately came to mind. I looked up his statistics while at IU, and they aren't nearly as bad as Johnson's have been.

Bracey Wright would wreck shop on Rojo every day all day.

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I put the majority of the blame for this loss on the players and primarily RoJo and Josh. Also, don't see what Al is bringing to the starting unit.

I'd start Green, McRoberts, Hartman, Morgan and Davis in the next game. The walk ons should be practicing with extra intensity this week.  

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Just now, Reacher said:

I put the majority of the blame for this loss on the players and primarily RoJo and Josh. Also, don't see what Al is bringing to the starting unit.

I'd start Green, McRoberts, Hartman, Morgan and Davis in the next game. The walk ons should be practicing with extra intensity this week.  

I totally agree with your starting lineup.

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Those who know me know that I Iive in Phoenix.  I work with some UA fans and asked them about the pack line defense.

HF: "So, what do you think about the pack line defense?"

Co-worker: "Not sure.  It seems to be hit and miss"

HF: "Give up a lot of threes?"

CW: "Oh, crap, yeah that's definitely the achilles heel."

HF: "Does it seem to only work when you have 3/4 year players?"

CW: "Oh, man, that totally seems to be the case..."

HF: "Any upside?"

CW: "When it looks good, it's amazing."

B- level armchair analysis from a pseudo basketball fan.  Godspeed, gents.

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12 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I guess I don't understand supporting apathy, and apathy is exactly what many of these players have shown on the court multiple times this season.  Players who only get up for the Duke's and the Notre Dame's of the world, but are disinterested against the like of Fort Wayne, don't deserve blind support.

Fort Wayne won tonight, much as Indiana State did, because they WANTED it more.  There simply is no excuse for that. 

I have supported IU for over 40 years through the good and bad years and that will never change.

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12 hours ago, Muddy River said:

Put Priller and Blackmon in.

Since Blackmon doesn't dress for the games I don't think he will be in the games. I think he has to sit the year out after transferring.

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Just now, HoosierFaithful said:

Those who know me know that I Iive in Phoenix.  I work with some UA fans and asked them about the pack line defense.

HF: "So, what do you think about the pack line defense?"

Co-worker: "Not sure.  It seems to be hit and miss"

HF: "Give up a lot of threes?"

CW: "Oh, crap, yeah that's definitely the achilles heel."

HF: "Does it seem to only work when you have 3/4 year players?"

CW: "Oh, man, that totally seems to be the case..."

HF: "Any upside?"

CW: "When it looks good, it's amazing."

B- level armchair analysis from a pseudo basketball fan.  Godspeed, gents.

In all seriousness, while people lash out at players after a loss like this, looking at the plays and sets we're running is worth it. Where we are on the pack line D is something to watch going forward. We've lost two 20-plus games already to unranked opponents, same guys who played last year, minus 3 players in the NBA. 

To what extent are these awful blow-out losses attributable to the pack line D, to our players still learning the pack line D, to not having the right players / length to run pack line D, etc.? 

We're losing these games because of crazy three-point shooting. That's the common denominator. This is why I keep questioning the need to lash out at particular players. It's just not as simple as saying Davis, or Rob, or anyone else is "lazy" etc. We're getting blitzed by threes, not by interior D, etc. The question is why? And to me that's still an open question.

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