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22 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

A lot of people, me included, haven't seriously considered Franklin to start. But the kid is really solid, and may well have that frosh to soph jump. Regardless if he starts, I'd also like to see

Franklin

Al

Hunter

Race

TJD

Good point...there were times last year I thought he was our second best on the ball defender (when he didn't get caught out of position, which he did a few times)...He keeps his guy in front of him pretty well and has that uncanny knack for taking charging fouls...I think TDH said he led the team, but I watched every game last year and it would surprise me if Armaan didn't have more charge takes than the rest of the team combined...

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I hope Lander starts. We need another elite, impact player, especially a point guard, to go with TJD and IMO if he doesn't start it says a bit that he's not ready for that. This team needs two "stars" and Lander is a 5*, highly rated guy that will of course have growing pains, but you'd hope is largely ready to roll. 

On the "it doesn't matter who starts, only who finishes" thing, it definitely matters to the players. Starting is a a big deal to players and the ones that say it isn't are lying. 1) It's a status thing, 2) starters usually play the most minutes, and 3) the vast, vast majority of coaches typically revert back to their starts to finish close games unless there is a bench guy that is just lights out that night or a starter is in foul trouble. 

 

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3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I hope Lander starts. We need another elite, impact player, especially a point guard, to go with TJD and IMO if he doesn't start it says a bit that he's not ready for that. This team needs two "stars" and Lander is a 5*, highly rated guy that will of course have growing pains, but you'd hope is largely ready to roll. 

On the "it doesn't matter who starts, only who finishes" thing, it definitely matters to the players. Starting is a a big deal to players and the ones that say it isn't are lying. 1) It's a status thing, 2) starters usually play the most minutes, and 3) the vast, vast majority of coaches typically revert back to their starts to finish close games unless there is a bench guy that is just lights out that night or a starter is in foul trouble. 

 

Not sure if Lander will be ready as an 17-18 year old. The player I’m most interested in seeing is him. 

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5 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Not sure if Lander will be ready as an 17-18 year old. The player I’m most interested in seeing is him. 

Yeah, he's either ready or he's not, really nothing we can do about that, but if he's not then that is a tough sign for this team IMO. 

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17 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I hope Lander starts. We need another elite, impact player, especially a point guard, to go with TJD and IMO if he doesn't start it says a bit that he's not ready for that. This team needs two "stars" and Lander is a 5*, highly rated guy that will of course have growing pains, but you'd hope is largely ready to roll. 

On the "it doesn't matter who starts, only who finishes" thing, it definitely matters to the players. Starting is a a big deal to players and the ones that say it isn't are lying. 1) It's a status thing, 2) starters usually play the most minutes, and 3) the vast, vast majority of coaches typically revert back to their starts to finish close games unless there is a bench guy that is just lights out that night or a starter is in foul trouble. 

 

Which also highlights the oddity of Brunk starting throughout but going down to around 9 minutes a game while Race increased to around 20 a game for the last 10 or so games of the year. Race was the real starter, but he didn't start. Again, kind of odd, and imo he (or Hunter) needs to start -- pretty clear to me that CAM recognizes that. Now we'll see.

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15 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Not sure if Lander will be ready as an 17-18 year old. The player I’m most interested in seeing is him. 

He's young -- that was my early concern -- but did you know that both OG and Bryant were 17 coming in? 

I'd be pretty surprised, if not shocked, at this point if Lander didn't start. And fwiw, he was in white consistently in the HH clips, and the talk all summer -- from the players -- has been our running a 3-guard look.

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honestly, i started out asking people who they THOUGHT would start and said not really who you WANT to start.  of course it's CAM's decision and of course we aren't at practices to see who really deserves it.  i'm really honestly not sure who i WANT to start.  i just think it's fun to speculate.  obviously we all agree on TJD.  i think pretty much everyone agrees on Al.  it's a pretty unique year that that's about it.  i still think in 2020 when you have a recruit as highly touted as Lander that he'll start.  just my guess.  from there it's just hard for me to believe RP isn't good enough to start, but that's a tricky small 3 guard lineup.  would CAM do that?  if so, would he also be willing to go with a small 4?  Race or Hunter?  as a coach, i have always believed in starting my 5 most talented guys regardless and yes, they would also be my finishers unless one of them is having a bad game and someone else is playing really well.  that was just my philosophy though.  obviously there are plenty of coaches who do it differently.  

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33 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Which also highlights the oddity of Brunk starting throughout but going down to around 9 minutes a game while Race increased to around 20 a game for the last 10 or so games of the year. Race was the real starter, but he didn't start. Again, kind of odd, and imo he (or Hunter) needs to start -- pretty clear to me that CAM recognizes that. Now we'll see.

The two point guards who reclassified the last couple of years Hagan at UK and Lewis at Alabama both played a lot and started.  Hagan struggled his freshman year but Lewis had a good but not great freshman season.

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Yes I think CAM will run a 3-Guard lineup. He and the players have publicly talked about having 3 ball handlers in the floor and getting out and running. 
The next question though is a tougher one. We know CAM likes size up front that’s how he ran last year’s team. But how much of that was due to the makeup of that team, with Race just getting into his first playing year, and Smith as a strong but offensively challenged forward, and Hunter just getting into his redshirt frosh year. Race doesn’t have Brunk’s size but he took over most of his minutes, on strong play. Who helps the team most in a starting group? Race, I think showed he does. 

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33 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes I think CAM will run a 3-Guard lineup. He and the players have publicly talked about having 3 ball handlers in the floor and getting out and running. 
The next question though is a tougher one. We know CAM likes size up front that’s how he ran last year’s team. But how much of that was due to the makeup of that team, with Race just getting into his first playing year, and Smith as a strong but offensively challenged forward, and Hunter just getting into his redshirt frosh year. Race doesn’t have Brunk’s size but he took over most of his minutes, on strong play. Who helps the team most in a starting group? Race, I think showed he does. 

I like Al Durham, I really do. He's going to be an important player on this team. I think towards the end of the season last year he was playing as well as any guard/wing on the roster. Archie had him running baseline a lot and curling off of little elbow screens and Al was getting into the paint and drawing and 1's and was hitting little mid-range jumpers, etc. He was playing really well. 

With that said, I think it would be huge for this team if a few guys (Lander, Phinisee, Hunter, Race, or potentially Geronimo or Franklin) made a leap that pushed a hopefully willing Al Durham to the 6th man role. 

IU could be really strong with a lineup of:

Lander

Phinisee

Hunter

Race

TJD

Not because we're giving those guys a shot, but because Lander is as advertised, Hunter is healthy and ready to make a big leap and Race is turning into one of those MSU type of forwards that by their junior/senior year is a beast defensively and rebounding and is knocking down open jumpers/3's. 

That is a very strong lineup if guys reach their potential. Then you have an experienced leader as your 6th man in Durham who you know is capable of solid defense, can pitch in ball handling, and can score confidentiality from all levels. 

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1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

honestly, i started out asking people who they THOUGHT would start and said not really who you WANT to start.  of course it's CAM's decision and of course we aren't at practices to see who really deserves it.  i'm really honestly not sure who i WANT to start.  i just think it's fun to speculate.  obviously we all agree on TJD.  i think pretty much everyone agrees on Al.  it's a pretty unique year that that's about it.  i still think in 2020 when you have a recruit as highly touted as Lander that he'll start.  just my guess.  from there it's just hard for me to believe RP isn't good enough to start, but that's a tricky small 3 guard lineup.  would CAM do that?  if so, would he also be willing to go with a small 4?  Race or Hunter?  as a coach, i have always believed in starting my 5 most talented guys regardless and yes, they would also be my finishers unless one of them is having a bad game and someone else is playing really well.  that was just my philosophy though.  obviously there are plenty of coaches who do it differently.  

I have no problem with HSN members speculating on who should start.  After all... that is what having a sports board should be about.  Perhaps if I were on the same pay rate as Coach Miller....   oh well... I will leave it at that.

Thanks for being a member of HSN

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I’ll go with:

Rob

Lander

Al

Hunter

TJD

 

I think it’s vital who starts. You start your best lineup. This helps get off to the fastest start possible. If your starters are your best group, it will allow them play the most minutes in a game. If your best play the most minutes in a game, you will have better outcomes. In short, have your best 5 start, play the most minutes, and close out the game. 

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17 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Which also highlights the oddity of Brunk starting throughout but going down to around 9 minutes a game while Race increased to around 20 a game for the last 10 or so games of the year. Race was the real starter, but he didn't start. Again, kind of odd, and imo he (or Hunter) needs to start -- pretty clear to me that CAM recognizes that. Now we'll see.

Which is why I think Joey will start this year. Joey started all but 1 game for us last year (he didn't start on Senior Night...De'Ron did). You're correct in stating that his minutes were reduced...about 13 MPG in the last 9...and that included a 28 minute effort against Minnesota...Down from 22 MPG in the first 23, but he still started. 

And I think he'll start and get 15-18 MPG this year. As @BGleas said, it IS a big deal to the players, and Joey is one of our leaders. Making him come off the bench at this point would be a quasi demotion. Starting Joey but limiting his minutes fulfills 2 purposes to me...Keeps his leadership and pride intact (although I think if anyone on this team would do what's better for the team as opposed to stroking their own ego, it'd be Joey) while getting Race and Jerome more minutes.

Again, that's what I think CAM's POV is...

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On 11/20/2020 at 7:11 AM, Fundamentals said:

As IndyPartizan predicted Nov 4, Galloway will start:

Lander

Durham

Galloway

Hunter

Jackson-Davis

 

This is my guess, yours?

I think that has the potential to be a great lineup. I do think Race starts along with TJD up front. I prefer JH at the 3. Go fast with 3 guards when he is on the bench. 

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3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Supposedly TJD has been working hard on the jumper.  If Brunk can consistently hit the 12 footer with more shooters and a play maker like Lander, there may be room to operate.  Brunk is fairly savy off the ball.  

Report to me. TJD has also been working hard on using his off hand going inside.

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On 11/20/2020 at 1:39 PM, BGleas said:

I hope Lander starts. We need another elite, impact player, especially a point guard, to go with TJD and IMO if he doesn't start it says a bit that he's not ready for that. This team needs two "stars" and Lander is a 5*, highly rated guy that will of course have growing pains, but you'd hope is largely ready to roll. 

On the "it doesn't matter who starts, only who finishes" thing, it definitely matters to the players. Starting is a a big deal to players and the ones that say it isn't are lying. 1) It's a status thing, 2) starters usually play the most minutes, and 3) the vast, vast majority of coaches typically revert back to their starts to finish close games unless there is a bench guy that is just lights out that night or a starter is in foul trouble. 

 

Agreed. We need more TEMPO! Omg our offense is like watching paint dry....without the back door. Only thing good about it at times is I think the defense lulz to sleep sometimes just as much as we fans do. Khristian can make plays for others...stress the defense. We haven’t had a guard like him in I don’t know how long...maybe ever. He needs to knock down a few shots sure but it’s his play making that we need. He may not even get the assist (unless we use hockey statistics) but him beating his man and making the pass out of it will open up the whole floor for this team. Rob can attack to but he just can’t beat guys off the dribble the way we need. He mostly beats his man when he catches them out of position. Also another guard that can take it end to end and get us a shot in transition is huge! We can’t afford to have to generate offense in a half court set all the time. I don’t know the numbers but I bet IU ranks near the bottom of not only the B1G but all NCAA in transition offense. Lander has elite speed and athleticism...you can’t teach it...and you can’t mimick it. He can be a difference maker even if he isn’t putting the ball in the hoop a lot. If he scored 10 a game I’d be shocked...but it will be those other attributes that will improve our team the most.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Agreed. We need more TEMPO! Omg our offense is like watching paint dry....without the back door. Only thing good about it at times is I think the defense lulz to sleep sometimes just as much as we fans do. Khristian can make plays for others...stress the defense. We haven’t had a guard like him in I don’t know how long...maybe ever. He needs to knock down a few shots sure but it’s his play making that we need. He may not even get the assist (unless we use hockey statistics) but him beating his man and making the pass out of it will open up the whole floor for this team. Rob can attack to but he just can’t beat guys off the dribble the way we need. He mostly beats his man when he catches them out of position. Also another guard that can take it end to end and get us a shot in transition is huge! We can’t afford to have to generate offense in a half court set all the time. I don’t know the numbers but I bet IU ranks near the bottom of not only the B1G but all NCAA in transition offense. Lander has elite speed and athleticism...you can’t teach it...and you can’t mimick it. He can be a difference maker even if he isn’t putting the ball in the hoop a lot. If he scored 10 a game I’d be shocked...but it will be those other attributes that will improve our team the most.

I love that you brought up the word "tempo". Establishing and controlling pace is so critical in basketball and I feel like IU has really struggled with that since Archie's arrival. 

Completely agree on Lander. If he's legit, it takes IU's ceiling to an entire different level. Having a point guard that can control pace, plays with speed and knows when to use it can completely change the dynamic of an entire team. 

Its only been video clips and it remains to see how it translates as a freshmen, but what I've seen of Lander he's pretty elite at the herky-jerky NBA level inside out and hesitation dribbles to get to the basket off of PnR's. He's got those moves, handles and speed you see from NBA guards. 

We'll have to see if that translates this year, but he has those skills in his arsenal and it would he game-changing if he's ready to go. 

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9 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I love that you brought up the word "pace". Establishing and controlling pace is so critical in basketball and I feel like IU has really struggled with that since Archie's arrival. 

Completely agree on Lander. If he's legit, it takes IU's ceiling to an entire different level. Having a point guard that can control pace, plays with speed and knows when to use it can completely change the dynamic of an entire team. 

Its only been video clips and it remains to see how it translates as a freshmen, but what I've seen of Lander he's pretty elite at the herky-jerky NBA level inside out and hesitation dribbles to get to the basket off of PnR's. He's got those moves, handles and speed you see from NBA guards. 

We'll have to see if that translates this year, but he has those skills in his arsenal and it would he game-changing if he's ready to go. 

That’s what I’ve seen too...along with an ability to pass out of his drives and hit guys right in the pocket (they don’t have to reach etc) so they can be a threat much quicker. I mean how many guards you see fly around and beat their man and draw a defender only to throw the pass at a teammates feet or pull them away from the basket of make them reach...that difference is missing out on an open jumper...a chance to beat their own man who is trying to recover. That basically negates the work you’ve done. This was one of the things that I noticed right away from Ja Morant at Murray St when I lived there...who also plays with that elite speed...guys like Da Aron Fox. They not only keep a defense off balance and create defensive breakdowns but can pass at a high level to allow teammates to benefit. Having two point guards on the floor allow us to push the ball to attack the defense on both sides of the floor...make the most of ball reversals and hopefully be more successful making entry passes to the post. Question will continue to be his jump shot. I saw him improve that this past year but he is still far from a knock down shooter.

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8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That’s what I’ve seen too...along with an ability to pass out of his drives and hit guys right in the pocket (they don’t have to reach etc) so they can be a threat much quicker. I mean how many guards you see fly around and beat their man and draw a defender only to throw the pass at a teammates feet or pull them away from the basket of make them reach...that difference is missing out on an open jumper...a chance to beat their own man who is trying to recover. That basically negates the work you’ve done. This was one of the things that I noticed right away from Ja Morant at Murray St when I lived there...who also plays with that elite speed...guys like Da Aron Fox. They not only keep a defense off balance and create defensive breakdowns but can pass at a high level to allow teammates to benefit. Having two point guards on the floor allow us to push the ball to attack the defense on both sides of the floor...make the most of ball reversals and hopefully be more successful making entry passes to the post. Question will continue to be his jump shot. I saw him improve that this past year but he is still far from a knock down shooter.

Love everything about this! From everything we've read and seen about Lander he has these abilities. I really hope we get 2 years of him, because if he is as advertised he could be a beast as a sophomore. I hope all of those things translate this year as it would be amazing to see a player like that with TJD! 

There are a lot of "if's" on this roster, but if Lander is legit, Hunter makes a leap, Race develops that open 3, Phinisee is completely healthy, Franklin improves, Geronimo shows OG/Vic potential, then IU could really exceed expectations. The problem with "if's" is that they can all go the other way as well. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Love everything about this! From everything we've read and seen about Lander he has these abilities. I really hope we get 2 years of him, because if he is as advertised he could be a beast as a sophomore. I hope all of those things translate this year as it would be amazing to see a player like that with TJD! 

There are a lot of "if's" on this roster, but if Lander is legit, Hunter makes a leap, Race develops that open 3, Phinisee is completely healthy, Franklin improves, Geronimo shows OG/Vic potential, then IU could really exceed expectations. The problem with "if's" is that they can all go the other way as well. 

That’s a ton of what if’s. One thing I know is this....if both 5* players play like they are 5* then things will be so much easier on the rest of them. You will see uncontested 3s for Hunter, Al and Rob. Race will have open looks from Trayce double teams. Guys like Geronimo and Galloway will have open lanes to drive. We shall see. It’s up to this coaching staff to develop these guys. We have a lot of guys in that 70-150 range...those are guys that flash talent, have potential but needs to be cultivated. Put this year aside Archie has recruited fine...missed a couple guys each year that could have turned this around faster but still has plenty of talent on the team. He has to start improving our guys. We can’t wait 4 years...these sophomore and juniors have to start showing out. If he can’t coach...then he is just a good recruiter. That’s the part of the puzzle a lot of recruits are waiting to see. He says all the right things, great guy, but can he take my game to the next level? Archie...can you?!

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