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'21-'22 National Hoops Scene


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50 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Meh. PER again, take with grain of salt. His upside and talent are beyond (reasonable) question. The question is not what his "PER" is now, it's what the team and coach can do to get to his anticipated contributions to the team sooner rather than later. That's debatable. I'm on the side of getting the "Five Star" #1-ranked point guard playing time, especially in the early part of the schedule, to get him ready sooner. Most teams would.

Not saying don't play him.  Of course, you have to get everyone, especially freshmen, some time to keep them sharp and allow them to grow.  Get him 15-20 minutes of time, including some of it when it matters.  At the same time, if we need Rob, Al, and Armaan to play 30 minutes each to win a conference game, then we need to give those 3 guys their 30 minutes.  If that means guys like Lander, Leal, Geronimo, etc. only get 10 minutes that game, so be it.  

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3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

All fair for discussion. I personally think CAM's approach -- the get older, play young, talented frosh less than most teams would (I think that's fact) in favor of veteran experienced players -- cuts both ways. We're a good team now, think that's clear. That is absolutely at least in part because of CAM's approach, building on vet experience and emphasizing, for the most part, the vets (Hunter kind of in the middle here though). But contrast, for example, how Izzo brings his teams along going into a season -- not always but often, MSU struggles early, including losing to non-Div I teams, etc., because he's working in the young talent, and by early to mid-conf play, they're clicking and playing typical MSU ball.

Think Izzo would sit Lander on the bench? I doubt it, and, generally, as talented as Lander is -- and he's already shown flashes of on-court brilliance -- I want him playing more and getting his college game legs under him. That could cause an early loss or two. No question Rob is the steadier point right now, but how might Lander help us come say February? If he's been barely playing, not much.

So whether CAM's approach, so far, is a good or not so good thing remains to be seen, but I don't believe in just accepting that because a player isn't playing as much, that means they're not showing enough or talented enough. This also relates to my thinking on Hunter -- right or wrong -- I don't like the way CAM is under-utilizing him. We know, from CAM's mouth, he's one of the 3 best shooters on the team. We know he finished last year shooting North of 40%. I know I know, Defense, but for Christ's sake we will need scoring in B1G play.

Then there's the recruiting side and potential fallout of leaving a 5 star sitting on the bench. How many #1 - ranked or otherwise elite points do you think are good coming into a school where the coach sits guys like that on the bench? Playing time is a huge part of recruiting. 

Izzo isn’t going anywhere. He can lose games and no one questions him. Archie is in that position where he needs to win and win early to keep his job in the long run. I think it’s why he kept Creans guys on the team when we would have been better ripping the band aid off and why he doesn’t play Lander. I do think given how our guards have played there is room to bring Lander along. I also think he can play as the non primary ball handler more...he doesn’t have to just run the point. I think if you want to be good in February and March you have to build your bench and confidence early.

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4 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Then there's the recruiting side and potential fallout of leaving a 5 star sitting on the bench. How many #1 - ranked or otherwise elite points do you think are good coming into a school where the coach sits guys like that on the bench? Playing time is a huge part of recruiting. 

Jay Wright did it with Quinerly (9 mpg) his freshman year and he transferred...

But @dgambill brings up an excellent point... Guys like Wright and Izzo have very long, if not infinite, ropes... Archie doesn't... He needs to win and win now... But he's also trying to establish a culture like Wright has at Villanova...right now, we're a better team with Rob and Al on the floor...

I think Lander understands. He'd be playing his senior year of high school ball right now...he got a head start and he is averaging 14 mpg

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12 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Villanova up 64-53 over Butler.  Nova shooting 48.9%...41.2% from 3

and 78.6% on ft.   That's great shooting.  😊 With 6 minutes to go they have 6 turnovers.

They aren't likely going to win the national championship because they aren't outstanding... but man, they are solid as a team.  Not one of Jay Wright's best, but a good solid team.

Last but not least...they play smart bb. 

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2 hours ago, dgambill said:

Izzo isn’t going anywhere. He can lose games and no one questions him. Archie is in that position where he needs to win and win early to keep his job in the long run. I think it’s why he kept Creans guys on the team when we would have been better ripping the band aid off and why he doesn’t play Lander. I do think given how our guards have played there is room to bring Lander along. I also think he can play as the non primary ball handler more...he doesn’t have to just run the point. I think if you want to be good in February and March you have to build your bench and confidence early.

Not sure about the win early point. CAM is not on the hot seat, any such talk is complete BS. And we’re not talking about not winning out in the season, we’re talking early games.

Agree on positional switching and RE how our guards have played but it’s think it’s more about having multiple ball handlers than running point — that’s been the objective, 3 handlers. 

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1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Jay Wright did it with Quinerly (9 mpg) his freshman year and he transferred...

But @dgambill brings up an excellent point... Guys like Wright and Izzo have very long, if not infinite, ropes... Archie doesn't... He needs to win and win now... But he's also trying to establish a culture like Wright has at Villanova...right now, we're a better team with Rob and Al on the floor...

I think Lander understands. He'd be playing his senior year of high school ball right now...he got a head start and he is averaging 14 mpg

CAM is not on any kind of hot seat. He needs to win this season more for program momentum and recruiting, but he doesn’t need to win right away out of the gate, and he’s not going anywhere either.

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22 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Not sure about the win early point. CAM is not on the hot seat, any such talk is complete BS. And we’re not talking about not winning out in the season, we’re talking early games.

Agree on positional switching and RE how our guards have played but it’s think it’s more about having multiple ball handlers than running point — that’s been the objective, 3 handlers. 

I’m not trying to say he is on the hot seat. Just that he doesn’t have the benefit of an infinite amount of collateral that these other coaches have built. He is playing the guys that he thinks gives him the best chance to win now. It’s been a tough early schedule with few breaks to let the freshman grow up. I mean in years past we had 6-7 cupcakes like some others do this year. We just don’t have that on the schedule. That said I don’t think Khristian hurts us all that much on the floor as Armaan, Al, or Rob given each of their level of play so far this year. There has been 3 players that have stood out. Trayce, Race, and Trey. Those guys have shown flashes and all played at a high energy/level. To me the others are pretty interchangeable at times given they’ve all had flashes of good play and times where they’ve looked bad. I assume Archie would rather roll/try to win with what he knows he has then risk it with what he doesn’t know even if the upside is greater. No matter everyone that is in a position of high accountability feels pressure to perform...Archie is at the highest level. Hot seat or not he feels the pressure for sure...and I don’t think it’s any question it affects his decisions. Izzo and company are far removed from those types of worries. I mean look at Cal...if Archie had started this year with his team losing like he has do you think he wouldn’t be feeling the pressure and his seat warm?? Things can change very quickly. 

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10 hours ago, dgambill said:

Izzo isn’t going anywhere. He can lose games and no one questions him. Archie is in that position where he needs to win and win early to keep his job in the long run. I think it’s why he kept Creans guys on the team when we would have been better ripping the band aid off and why he doesn’t play Lander. I do think given how our guards have played there is room to bring Lander along. I also think he can play as the non primary ball handler more...he doesn’t have to just run the point. I think if you want to be good in February and March you have to build your bench and confidence early.

i have a feeling Lander is not the same player of the ball and i mean this in a bad way.  to me he is a true PG.  so quick, sees the floor well.  seems like he can be an elite passer once he gets under control and figures out the speed of the game.  on the other hand, his shot is ugly.  i think he needs to be a PG.

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10 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

CAM is not on any kind of hot seat. He needs to win this season more for program momentum and recruiting, but he doesn’t need to win right away out of the gate, and he’s not going anywhere either.

His seat is at least a tad toasty...If IU wouldn't make the tourney this year, I'd guarantee it'd be quite warm for 21-22...So I don't think any sane coach would even slightly compromise this year simply to get a 5 star more playing time in the hope that it would benefit us in subsequent years... 

A bird in the hand, my friend...

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11 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

CAM is not on any kind of hot seat. He needs to win this season more for program momentum and recruiting, but he doesn’t need to win right away out of the gate, and he’s not going anywhere either.

If we are under .500 in conference again which is quite possible and we are bubble/miss tourney it's warm.  

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1 hour ago, Hippopotamo said:

Archie isn’t on the hot seat at all, and frankly isn’t even at the point to start discussing it at all. 

I'm not in any way saying Archie has one foot in the grave...I just think it's unwise, when you don't have the latitude of an Izzo or Wright, to wager this year's record on future years strategy or worry how it appears in regards to recruiting.

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3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

His seat is at least a tad toasty...If IU wouldn't make the tourney this year, I'd guarantee it'd be quite warm for 21-22...So I don't think any sane coach would even slightly compromise this year simply to get a 5 star more playing time in the hope that it would benefit us in subsequent years... 

A bird in the hand, my friend...

It's not toasty, etc. but in any event we're not talking about playing Lander so he can benefit us in subsequent years, we're talking about getting him going this year, to benefit us this year, just as again Izzo for example does with his players. I don't like Izzo, but he's sane and most coaches would be playing Lander. We've had a game where he played 7 minutes.

Again, CAM's approach has us looking good generally, but Lander's upside is tremendous and -- imo -- he will need to continue to play more for IU to achieve the level of success we all want this year. This isn't about next year at all. Lander is the real deal. No one coming into this season was talking about limiting his minutes.

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2 hours ago, CincyHoosier said:

If we are under .500 in conference again which is quite possible and we are bubble/miss tourney it's warm.  

If buts and maybes don't apply to this season. He is absolutely not, at all, on the hot seat, much as some may want to trumpet panic and worry.  The B1G is one of the best 2 conferences in the country this year, period. Whatever 'quite possible' stuff you want to throw out there, realistically, if he doesn't have IU in the tourney this year, by not being one of the top 5-8 teams or so (and yes it looks like the B1G will likely field 8 teams) then next season the pressure will start to build, but he aint going anywhere anytime soon, period.

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I'll say nothing is impossible. I don't think his seat is hot now, but his seat could be hot come February if things start to unravel despite a healthy roster. Not saying he'd be fired at the end of the season, but next season could be a scorching 'do or die season' for CAM.

However, I personally don't think that will come to fruition. I think this team looks good and is trending in a direction. We are going to win some hard fought games and I believe we'll be stealing some road wins because our defense is GOOD this year. I know that moral victories mean nothing but the FSU game at least showed me this team has more grit than in years past. They seem like they can take a punch and fight back. Grit and shooting have been lacking...let's hope we've gained at least 1 of the 2. 

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Just now, CincyHoosier said:

So you've talked to Scott Dolson then?  

He is not in trouble now and every coach should get 5 years before talk of hot seats.  Unless he does something against the rules or have off court problems then fans shouldn't be talking about hot seats or firing the coach.  This kind of talk doe snot help the program at all and it fuels the fire for negative recruiting.

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

He is not in trouble now and every coach should get 5 years before talk of hot seats.  Unless he does something against the rules or have off court problems then fans shouldn't be talking about hot seats or firing the coach.  This kind of talk doe snot help the program at all and it fuels the fire for negative recruiting.

So you think my opinion (random fan forum guy) has an influence over the fate of the IU basketball program?  Far out man. 

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1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said:

So you think my opinion (random fan forum guy) has an influence over the fate of the IU basketball program?  Far out man. 

Yes I think fans response and the media can effect the program. Where do you think other coaches get that a coach is on the hot seat.  It is not getting info from the AD so it comes from somewhere.  Also we know parents of players and recruits had been on this board as well

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1 minute ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i always find it interesting that people think this too, but there are a handful on this site who think that.

You don't hea people from the athletic department coming out saying a coach is in trouble if they don't win a certain amount of games.  So where does the notion that a coach is on the hot seat comes from.

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