Stanford Postgame Thread

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

So you are saying IU under Knight is a one time thing...I agree but you also sound like you don’t ever expect us to contend for a NC again. I have higher expectations....and I know the admin do as well. I know you want to be great again...I just don’t have the patience I don’t think others do. We turn over a roster every 3-4 years. We are turning over this roster this year yet we see some of the same weaknesses still plague the program. I’m hoping to be wrong but I’m not sure the next 3 years are going to look that much different than the past 3. I do think we have a lot more consistency with Archie and won’t see the dramatic ups and downs with the program...but I just don’t know how high our upside can be. It’s getting harder and harder for me seeing this team even win a B1G title much less make a final 4. Just seems so far off.

Also if we are still here after next year then you will probably see a change.  My worry is even if we make a change it will still be going into the same pattern and it will just be rinse and repeat.

[13th&Jackson]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I just know when I was a freshman and we were going through workouts and lifting I had trouble shooting where I never had before.  I had never lifted before that time so I wa snot use to it so it through my shot off terribly.  I was not a college basketball player or as good f a basketball player so it might not effect them.

The basketball coach at my high school wouldn’t let players lift weights during the season 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

The basketball coach at my high school wouldn’t let players lift weights during the season 

To me that is good but I not a coach

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Will we ever have a coach better than RMK probably not but I did not say we would never contend for a championship.  John Wooden has been gone since 1975 and UCLA is still searching for their next great coach.  They had Larry Brown but he never stays in one place long.  gene Bartow was a very good coach but couldn't stand the heat from the fan base or administration.  After those two it has been changing coaches every few years.  They finally got Howland and went to 3 straight final fours but that wasn't good enough.

Losing Howlsnd was idiotic. Unless you are landing Calipari what more could they expect? I know we won’t have another 3 time champion but I do expect to win B1G titles and make final fours....that looks just as far away as it did day 1 imo. We are better certainly but at least day 1 there was so much potential...now I’ve seen 3 years and that potential and expectations I had for Archie Is much smaller.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Also if we are still here after next year then you will probably see a change.  My worry is even if we make a change it will still be going into the same pattern and it will just be rinse and repeat.

Agreed and that is why I want to see Archie have a great year and why I want to see our recruiting get even better.

[IU Scott]

Just now, dgambill said:

Losing Howlsnd was idiotic. Unless you are landing Calipari what more could they expect? I know we won’t have another 3 time champion but I do expect to win B1G titles and make final fours....that looks just as far away as it did day 1 imo. We are better certainly but at least day 1 there was so much potential...now I’ve seen 3 years and that potential and expectations I had for Archie Is much smaller.

In a few years we will see how some of the other big time programs will do trying to replace HOF coach.  Duke, Syracuse, UNC all will be looking probably in the next few years so we see if they have some lull in their success.  To me UNC was fortunate to have a former alumni who was a great coach and willing to come back home.  I see Duke going to a former player and assistant because coach K will probably make sure that happens.  Syracuse has already lost their coach in waiting in Hopkins and he really hasn't done much at Washington.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

In a few years we will see how some of the other big time programs will do trying to replace HOF coach.  Duke, Syracuse, UNC all will be looking probably in the next few years so we see if they have some lull in their success.  To me UNC was fortunate to have a former alumni who was a great coach and willing to come back home.  I see Duke going to a former player and assistant because coach K will probably make sure that happens.  Syracuse has already lost their coach in waiting in Hopkins and he really hasn't done much at Washington.

Yep those teams may fall off but I doubt Villanova, Virginia, Baylor, Gonzaga and some others are going anywhere. 

[IU Scott]

I know we all pay a ot more attention to our games and react to how we play good or bad.  With watching a lot of games I have noticed what we complain about IU is happening to a lot of good teams in the country so far this year.  Shooting is off and the play seems a little disjointed and it probably has to do with the odd off season.  I know we get mad at how we shoot and turning the ball over or lack of hustle but I have seen a lot of that in college basketball.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Yep those teams may fall off but I doubt Villanova, Virginia, Baylor, Gonzaga and some others are going anywhere. 

There will always be great programs but just stating it can be hard replacing a HOF coach.

[IU Scott]

When I thought of the type of team we would have once we hired Archie I thought it would be similar to Huggins team.

[iuthruandthru]

3 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Wasn’t that about 5 pages of the Texas post game thread? Needing a new coach and she loves the NBA life?

To be clear I never said we should go after Steven’s now, that ship has sailed. The debate was would he or other high profile coaches listen to offers.  I actually think Archie will be at IU this year and next and the first thing I posted yesterday was can’t judge this season yet til at least half way through big ten season.  Not enough of a sample size.

[Bustout]

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

When I thought of the type of team we would have once we hired Archie I thought it would be similar to Huggins team.

That’s a good comparison 

[Kdug]

A couple of thoughts after reading some of the comments in this thread:

1. I've seen a couple of comments saying Archie teams don't improve much year to year. Looking at offensive and defensive efficiency numbers, that's not true. Under Archie, IU's 4 year Kenpom Offense ranking in the country has gone: 92nd-82nd-65th-35th. Defensively has gone: 65th-32nd-26th-13th. Obviously we looked horrible on offense against Texas, but besides that our offense had been very good so far this year. Stanford held Alabama and North Carolina to 64 and 67 points, we scored 79 on them.

2. Our shooting has not been good so far this year. But shooting %s are generally lower to start the year for all teams. Last year we shot 32.6% from 3, this year we're shooting 29.3%. However, we were 204th in the country in 3 point %, this year we've been 159th. I'm not saying we'll definitely improve shooting wise, but traditionally college teams in general improve shooting %s as the year goes on.

3. Lastly, while I agree that Archie's teams don't emphasize the 3, he has had teams that have shot the ball well. At Dayton, his teams were in the top half of NCAA in 3 point shooting % in all his years but 1. With 2 of his teams being in the top 50.

[Hoosierhoopster]

24 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know we all pay a ot more attention to our games and react to how we play good or bad.  With watching a lot of games I have noticed what we complain about IU is happening to a lot of good teams in the country so far this year.  Shooting is off and the play seems a little disjointed and it probably has to do with the odd off season.  I know we get mad at how we shoot and turning the ball over or lack of hustle but I have seen a lot of that in college basketball.

Bears repeating that we started without even having an exhibition game, or scrimmage, and, obviously, limited practices due to Covid. 

That’s going on all over. Teams are going to be out of sync,guys are going to miss shots, young players have had less time to acclimate to the college game —

But God knows the criticizing fans haven’t taken any time off 

[BGleas]

Really strong performance today and glad to see that as a bounce back. I'm convinced the success of this team is going to come down to Franklin, Phinisee and Lander. 

Both Franklin and Phinisee have got to be aggressive and consistent offensively. Phinisee has got to be aggressive taking his 3-pt shot and Franklin needs to also consistently attack and look for his perimeter shot as well. We can't have games where those two go an entire half without barely looking to shoot/score. Especially Phinisee, I like him but this team needs him to be more than just a "floor general", he has to shoot.

On Lander, as he continues to get comfortable it will only help this team, and you can see it slowing coming along. I actually really credit him with not getting discouraged. 

 

[Hoosierhoopster]

26 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Really strong performance today and glad to see that as a bounce back. I'm convinced the success of this team is going to come down to Franklin, Phinisee and Lander. 

Both Franklin and Phinisee have got to be aggressive and consistent offensively. Phinisee has got to be aggressive taking his 3-pt shot and Franklin needs to also consistently attack and look for his perimeter shot as well. We can't have games where those two go an entire half without barely looking to shoot/score. Especially Phinisee, I like him but this team needs him to be more than just a "floor general", he has to shoot.

On Lander, as he continues to get comfortable it will only help this team, and you can see it slowing coming along. I actually really credit him with not getting discouraged. 

 

Just my early take, but at this early point I’m convinced we’re going to need to, and will, rely on the team’s balance — steadiness from a few, but other than TJD, a mix of scoring.

Some games Race will go off. Some games Al will hit a bunch. Some games Hunter will find his groove and will excel (and I really am questioning the way Cam is holding back the overall 3-point game, but it’s early). Some games our killer downhill frosh will get himself rolling. 
 

Mixed in we’ll rely on the steady play and dominance of TJD, Rob’s Floor game and D to go with a steady outside shot, Lander’s growing floor game with better offense as the season continues, and I really think primarily Franklin’s D — he was killer on D against their best player. He’s looking great defensively — we don’t need him to put up big scoring numbers, but the kind of D, rebounding and offensive balance he showed today I think we’ll see more of steadily. He was really confident in this game.

So I see somewhat similarly but think we do have balance — I’m being careful not to call it depth though lol 

[KoB2011]

I think we are a lot better than some of you are giving us credit for after four games. Don't get me wrong, the Texas game sucked, but we have three convincing wins aside from that. 

Our defense didn't let a team crack 40% in three straight games at "Maui". Defense travels. 

After the first game our free throws made major strides. 

We've seen that TJD has made strides, Race is who we hoped he was, the noise about Galloway had something to it, and several other encouraging things. 

We aren't going to make 40% of our threes but frankly, you don't have to in college. You can win national titles in college playing ugly basketball and winning tough games; I'd almost argue you're more likely to do than playing a "pretty" style. 

College basketball is an ugly game; refs suck, it's over coached, shooting isn't typically great, etc. Winning ugly is a really important thing to do and I think we are taking another step towards being a team who can do that regularly. 

 

[IU878176]

5 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Look, I'll just say this then I'll shut up.

I don't mind criticism of a team or a player if it's warranted. If you can somehow, statistically or on video show me a glaring deficiency or lack of effort, I'll gladly join you.

But I think some people are being unfair. I haven't seen a lack of effort yet from this group. @coachadragna put up an excellent video on the shots we missed and then broke down some of the offensive struggles. I'm good with that. He shows what we did wrong and why.

But just a "lack of effort" blanket statement with nothing to back it up gets to me. It's unfair.

I'm one of the more optimistic people you'd probably every meet, so that's some of it. But I'm also keenly aware of fairness. I enjoy the journey through the year the whole way...even the lean years, and I've seen more than my share...you should have been around in the 60s!

 

I agree the coaches post game videos are great. In regards to your “blanket statement ”, in regards to effort, comment......@coachadragna spent the first half of his Texas breakdown showing the guys making weak, ineffective picks, not putting a body on their guy, jogging to their spot without purpose, etc. I equate that with a lack of effort/focus. They also did not win 50/50 balls and got killed on the boards. I equate those types of issues primarily with a lack of effort/intensity but I guess we disagree. 

The good news is how we bounced back against Stanford. If we are a bubble team beating Stanford will be very helpful. 

[IU878176]

4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Also if we are still here after next year then you will probably see a change.  My worry is even if we make a change it will still be going into the same pattern and it will just be rinse and repeat.

I agree and really hope Archie works out. It is disheartening to think of the entire process starting all over once again.

[mrflynn03]

Really enjoyed watching Trace and Race slam it down with authority.  Race is really looking like he is going to have a good year.  Like the way Franklin and Galloway are playing. 

Keep chucking in Lander. They will start hitting soon enough. 

[mrflynn03]

 

5 hours ago, IU Scott said:

To me that is good but I not a coach

I played football and basketball and started lifting in 6th grade. In my experience if you grow up lifting very minimal effect, but if you only play bball and start lifting it can definitely affect your shot. 

I call it rubber arms. In my opinion the only weight training basketball players should do leading up to and during season is leg work,(squat, power clean) maybe 2 times a week, and overhead press. 

And lots of box jumps. 

[Feathery]

10 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

might as well go ahead and fire you guys up even more... i just looked at the schedule and counted.  honestly, if i had to bet, i'd say 14-13 or 15-12.  again, i am not looking to be right.  i'm hoping to be wrong.  i do like this team more than last year's.  before you respond to tell me how crazy and awful i am, please take the time to look at the schedule and honestly count wins and losses and tell me what you think we'll be.    

I think we are a top half Big Ten team and will have a solid seed in the NCAA tournament. My honest opinion after looking at the schedule:

Overall: 18-9/17-10

Conference: 12-8/11-9

then we see what happens in the BTT and NCAA’s. 

[NCHoosier32]

10 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I think we might win fewer games but have a better season. No excuses, but our schedule is ridiculous. 

i agree

[NCHoosier32]

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

I think we are a top half Big Ten team and will have a solid seed in the NCAA tournament. My honest opinion after looking at the schedule:

Overall: 18-9/17-10

Conference: 12-8/11-9

then we see what happens in the BTT and NCAA’s. 

man i hope you're right!

[dgambill]

8 hours ago, BGleas said:

Really strong performance today and glad to see that as a bounce back. I'm convinced the success of this team is going to come down to Franklin, Phinisee and Lander. 

Both Franklin and Phinisee have got to be aggressive and consistent offensively. Phinisee has got to be aggressive taking his 3-pt shot and Franklin needs to also consistently attack and look for his perimeter shot as well. We can't have games where those two go an entire half without barely looking to shoot/score. Especially Phinisee, I like him but this team needs him to be more than just a "floor general", he has to shoot.

On Lander, as he continues to get comfortable it will only help this team, and you can see it slowing coming along. I actually really credit him with not getting discouraged. 

 

Exactly. Teams are going to continue to pack the paint and double Trayce and force our guards to beat them. Question will be can they? That will be what we have to watch...does the backcourt grow up.