Florida State Postgame Thread

[5fouls]

They may have won the game last night, but Seminole Nation is jealous because we are a football school and they are not.  

[dgambill]

51 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

By obeying the rules that are set in place.  Let me ask you if your best friend is a drug dealer and is making huge money are you just going to do it because your friend is doing it.  It is obvious that the police can't control the drug trade and it is pretty easy to get away with so you are saying you would sell drugs as well.

Aren’t they decriminalizing marijuana? Lol. Now if said friend is already getting market share making it impossible for you because they got an early start. The paying for kids to me is the same. It’s about to be legal but those that got an early start on it over the past decade have set themselves apart from the rest of us such that it’s almost impossible to catch up. I don’t like it but it seems to be the way it is. Also I think the NCAA is like the government who approves their “friends/lobbyist” with licenses and shut out the rest so they pick the winners the good ol programs to not come down on or investigate.

[5fouls]

22 hours ago, AshtonHershey said:

We're not a top-40 team right now.

Nope.  But the 'Biebs' and Chance the Rapper teamed up to come in at #5.

TOP 40 - December 5, 2020 | American Top 40 With Ryan Seacrest (at40.com)

[TheWatShot]

8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

They may have won the game last night, but Seminole Nation is jealous because we are a football school and they are not.  

Might be the first time we've lost to somebody from Florida and had the confidence to say "let's play football." 

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Not a guarantee but just look at our last hires.  Also top college coaches won't leave their current jobs to come here. You will either an up and coming mid major coach or maybe a mid tier coach from a power 5 conference

Crean and Sampson were both from major programs in power conferences.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Crean and Sampson were both from major programs in power conferences.

Sampson was coming off a scandal at Oklahoma and he got out before being pushed out.  I think Marquette had been in the big East for just a couple of years.  Tell me what major coach we could get.

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Sampson was coming off a scandal at Oklahoma and he got out before being pushed out.  I think Marquette had been in the big East for just a couple of years.  Tell me what major coach we could get.

Rumor has it that Billy Donovan was a shoo-in for the job.  

[IUCrazy2]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Sampson was coming off a scandal at Oklahoma and he got out before being pushed out.  I think Marquette had been in the big East for just a couple of years.  Tell me what major coach we could get.

Groundhog Day.

They don't know who we could get and you don't know who we couldn't get and Miller is not going anywhere anyway.

Bottom line, if he wants to succeed here, he needs to figure out his offense.  Whether that is by improving recruiting so he has guys who can naturally shoot or improving his system to compensate for poor shooters, that is going to be what decides his fate.  The defense is good.  Definite improvement there.  The offense is still bad...and that is going to impact recruiting eventually, some signs point to the idea it already has.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

Rumor has it that Billy Donovan was a shoo-in for the job.  

Until they found out you was stalking his wife LOL!

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Couldn't care less what other school does and if that is the only way to win a championship I rather not win one.  I guess the younger generation does not have much integrity when it comes to this fan base because we use to say we beat those team while doing it the right way.  UK has cheated for years and our fans use to use that against UK but now it seems our fans want to be just like them which is a shame.

I think a lot of old and young fans are sick of an NCAA that has no integrity. Rules that are not enforced or only against the little guys like UNC Wilmington and not UNC or Eastern Kentucky and not UK or Arkansas Little Rock and not Arkansas. An NCAA that Sec football makes a laughing stock of their rules. NCAA that has no real power over the schools but what the schools give them. Whose rule books are outdated and antiquated in modern semi amateur sports. I’m for doing things the right way and I definitely want kids that represent our school and state with honor but I can see both sides of the coin when it comes to NCAA.

[dgambill]

13 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Sampson was coming off a scandal at Oklahoma and he got out before being pushed out.  I think Marquette had been in the big East for just a couple of years.  Tell me what major coach we could get.

How much are we willing to spend? How badly do we want to win. Are we willing to spend like UK?? Oklahoma was the 1a or 1b of the Big 12 when Sampson left. They were right there with Kansas. Marquette was part of the Big East and Crean was one of the biggest most respected names in the  conference. Sampson and Crean were premiere coaches in NCAA when hired. Archie is the mid major up and comer. Just saying...neither is the “right way” to go about it but we don’t have to do one because that is how we have in the past. We’ve tried both ways. I think we can land a great coach at a major program If we want it bad enough....question is how badly do we want to spend. I don’t see it til end of year 5 at earliest but nothing is stopping us from landing a big name coach if we pay the premium. $$ talks.

[IUCrazy2]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think a lot of old and young fans are sick of an NCAA that has no integrity. Rules that are not enforced or only against the little guys like UNC Wilmington and not UNC or Eastern Kentucky and not UK or Arkansas Little Rock and not Arkansas. An NCAA that Sec football makes a laughing stock of their rules. NCAA that has no real power over the schools but what the schools give them. Whose rule books are outdated and antiquated in modern semi amateur sports. I’m for doing things the right way and I definitely want kids that represent our school and state with honor but I can see both sides of the coin when it comes to NCAA.

Not necessarily the NCAA, but the Big Ten changing rules to get Ohio State into the BT football championship is the kind of stuff where you just think, screw it, winning is what matters...go do what needs done to win.

[IU Scott]

Just now, dgambill said:

How much are we willing to spend? How badly do we want to win. Are we willing to spend like UK?? Oklahoma was the 1a or 1b of the Big 12 when Sampson left. They were right there with Kansas. Marquette was part of the Big East and Crean was one of the biggest most respected names in the  conference. Sampson and Crean were premiere coaches in NCAA when hired. Archie is the mid major up and comer. Just saying...neither is the “right way” to go about it but we don’t have to do one because that is how we have in the past. We’ve tried both ways. I think we can land a great coach at a major program If we want it bad enough....question is how badly do we want to spend. I don’t see it til end of year 5 at earliest but nothing is stopping us from landing a big name coach if we pay the premium. $$ talks.

Just saying right now that there are probably 10-12 homerun hires and none of them are available.  After those coaches it is a crap shoot and have no idea how they will do.  Also Archie was considered the top candidate the year we hired him.

[Seeking6]

4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

The next time we have an opening and it happens in a couple of years it will be another mid major coach

Can't believe I'm even typing this because I think the postgame thread after losing vs a top 20 team on the road in a back and forth has gone off the charts. Maybe we need a freezing cold takes thread where people can hang out in one thread to point back.

Anyway my point is this. Long term if things don't work out with Archie (which I firmly believe they will)....don't forget the Lawrence Frank connection between our AD and him. 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Can't believe I'm even typing this because I think the postgame thread after losing vs a top 20 team on the road in a back and forth has gone off the charts. Maybe we need a freezing cold takes thread where people can hang out in one thread to point back.

Anyway my point is this. Long term if things don't work out with Archie (which I firmly believe they will)....don't forget the Lawrence Frank connection between our AD and him. 

He is a GM in the NBA so I don't think he would leave that job to coach in college.  I agree this is a stupid discussion because we have a coach.

[5fouls]

 

My cousin just saw him headed west on 46.

[dgambill]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Just saying right now that there are probably 10-12 homerun hires and none of them are available.  After those coaches it is a crap shoot and have no idea how they will do.  Also Archie was considered the top candidate the year we hired him.

Of course who knows. Just saying If you want to go big game hunting you take a big gun and you don’t go hunting in the Suburbs...you go to where they live...and it can be done. Big name coaches have been lured away before. Not saying it will happen. I’d prefer Archie to fix our problems and win but it’s hard for me to see that happening. The longer this goes on the less confident im becoming. I know we may never have a multi championship coach again but I think we should be competing for a championship. Right now I can barely see us competing to make the NCAA and I don’t see us getting significantly better anytime soon.

[BobSaccamanno]

5 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Can't believe I'm even typing this because I think the postgame thread after losing vs a top 20 team on the road in a back and forth has gone off the charts. Maybe we need a freezing cold takes thread where people can hang out in one thread to point back.

Anyway my point is this. Long term if things don't work out with Archie (which I firmly believe they will)....don't forget the Lawrence Frank connection between our AD and him. 

Guys, this isn’t one loss.  This the fourth year of data with lots of troubling indicators.  The loss at FSU falls right in with the trend of who we are under Archie.  This isn’t IU losing to Vandy in 1987 as a complete outlier.  

I will grant you nothing is decided today.  Heck, even Crean had a bad start and then got things to click, so hopefully Archie has it in him too this year.  The problem is we’ve never seen it happen with Archie.   It’s hard to believe in a unicorn if there is no evidence of it. 

Lot of games left to be played where Archie can prove his chops.    I hope he does.   Our schedule is an opportunity to prove we are formidable.

A new coaching search is not what we need.   We aren’t going to write Mike White a $7 M per year contract to get him here.  Our pay is 1/3 what KY pays, so that’s where we will be unless proven otherwise.   Archie ultimately not working out would not be a good outcome and our funk as a program could get even worse.  

 

[dgambill]

Last I’ll say in this thread. Win or lose that game last night wouldn’t change the facts that surround this team. We are a team full of poor shooters. We would have won despite our weakness. The same weakness this team has had for over 3 years now. We would have won because we had a stud in Trayce and just enough from everyone else. I would have been happier but I wouldn’t have been under any illusion this team is a balanced ball squad capable of competing for a B1G title or even making a run in an NCAA tournament. If the shooting improves well then I will be amazed and happy. Our defense will keep us in many many games but our lack of perimeter play will lose us more games against top competition then we will win. Our margin for error is too small with our lack of shooting. It takes a herculian effort from Trayce to beat good teams. Does anyone here think we have any shot at all to win a B1G ball game if Trayce is in foul trouble or is ineffective? What about if he is gone next year? I don’t want to even think about it.

[MoyeCowbell]

32 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Last I’ll say in this thread. Win or lose that game last night wouldn’t change the facts that surround this team. We are a team full of poor shooters. We would have won despite our weakness. The same weakness this team has had for over 3 years now. We would have won because we had a stud in Trayce and just enough from everyone else. I would have been happier but I wouldn’t have been under any illusion this team is a balanced ball squad capable of competing for a B1G title or even making a run in an NCAA tournament. If the shooting improves well then I will be amazed and happy. Our defense will keep us in many many games but our lack of perimeter play will lose us more games against top competition then we will win. Our margin for error is too small with our lack of shooting. It takes a herculian effort from Trayce to beat good teams. Does anyone here think we have any shot at all to win a B1G ball game if Trayce is in foul trouble or is ineffective? What about if he is gone next year? I don’t want to even think about it.

I really hope this isn't the status quo the rest of the season, as it would be nice to have diversity of attack so that on any given night it's one of a few that can take over the game and not just on Trayce's shoulders. We won't do much if we're a one-trick pony.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Last I’ll say in this thread. Win or lose that game last night wouldn’t change the facts that surround this team. We are a team full of poor shooters. We would have won despite our weakness. The same weakness this team has had for over 3 years now. We would have won because we had a stud in Trayce and just enough from everyone else. I would have been happier but I wouldn’t have been under any illusion this team is a balanced ball squad capable of competing for a B1G title or even making a run in an NCAA tournament. If the shooting improves well then I will be amazed and happy. Our defense will keep us in many many games but our lack of perimeter play will lose us more games against top competition then we will win. Our margin for error is too small with our lack of shooting. It takes a herculian effort from Trayce to beat good teams. Does anyone here think we have any shot at all to win a B1G ball game if Trayce is in foul trouble or is ineffective? What about if he is gone next year? I don’t want to even think about it.

Well, I’ll just disagree. 
1) This is clearly not last year’s team, with Smith out of position on the perimeter. 
2) Al shot 38 percent from the arc last year, that’s a good shooter, and obviously he was banged up and not 100 percent.

3) Hunter finished his last 10 or so games shooting 40-plus from deep. But CAM is imo screwing around in not playing him more now - and again he hit 2-3 from deep in the game.

4) CAM says Rob is now one of the top 3 shooters. He’s shown that in flashes, we’ll see if it pans out.

Maybe you’ll be amazed and happy. 😁
4) A Herculean effort from Trayce to beat good teams? We were in the tourney last season, we beat plenty of good teams, and this team is better.

[Sea Turtle]

1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Guys, this isn’t one loss.  This the fourth year of data with lots of troubling indicators.  The loss at FSU falls right in with the trend of who we are under Archie.  This isn’t IU losing to Vandy in 1987 as a complete outlier.  

I will grant you nothing is decided today.  Heck, even Crean had a bad start and then got things to click, so hopefully Archie has it in him too this year.  The problem is we’ve never seen it happen with Archie.   It’s hard to believe in a unicorn if there is no evidence of it. 

Lot of games left to be played where Archie can prove his chops.    I hope he does.   Our schedule is an opportunity to prove we are formidable.

A new coaching search is not what we need.   We aren’t going to write Mike White a $7 M per year contract to get him here.  Our pay is 1/3 what KY pays, so that’s where we will be unless proven otherwise.   Archie ultimately not working out would not be a good outcome and our funk as a program could get even worse.  

 

It's hard to believe that there was a time when Indiana and Kentucky were equal as basketball programs.

At some point, Kentucky pulled ahead and then lapped Indiana. As far as coaches pay, i guess UK probably is three times the program as Indiana now. 

It helps I guess when you know how to hire coaches, are willing to pay for the best and demand excellence. 

[slojoe]

2 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Groundhog Day.

They don't know who we could get and you don't know who we couldn't get and Miller is not going anywhere anyway.

Bottom line, if he wants to succeed here, he needs to figure out his offense.  Whether that is by improving recruiting so he has guys who can naturally shoot or improving his system to compensate for poor shooters, that is going to be what decides his fate.  The defense is good.  Definite improvement there.  The offense is still bad...and that is going to impact recruiting eventually, some signs point to the idea it already has.

CAM was talking about getting more offense out of defense and fast breaks, but you just can't count on that on a regular basis.  You have to able to run a good half court offense these days especially in B1G.

[Fundamentals]

15 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Always good to hear from you.  Remember when you spent time at my house a few years back. Are you still doing work wise, what you did back then ?  I think I still have your phone number. Just know if you need to ever get away again..... bedroom is still waiting. 

Stay safe during this pandemic.

Hello, my friend.  Yes, and Wafflehead Fred was there, too. Great visit.  It would be excellent to see you again soon after these vaccines are released and this pandemic is subdued.

Work is going well.  Thx, and really good to hear from you.  

[rico]

10 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Just saying right now that there are probably 10-12 homerun hires and none of them are available.  After those coaches it is a crap shoot and have no idea how they will do.  Also Archie was considered the top candidate the year we hired him.

List your 10-12.