Butler post game

[NCHoosier32]

was tough to watch for a while, but turns out a nice win.  we were 32nd in votes in the AP coming into the week.  so far 5 teams between #18-31 have lost.  if NC loses to KY and Rutgers loses to Illinois, i could see us landing at #25 in the new poll.  if not very close.  unfortunately we start the up and down soon.  gonna be hard to win more than 1 or two in a row the rest of the way.  i am so pleasantly surprised by Franklin!  people did get a little over excited about Thompson, but he is still greatly improved.  Hunter, RP, and Al still not getting it done.  still hard to say that Lander makes us better though.  depressing to see OSU taking control over NW in football.  oh well.  

[NCHoosier32]

also, i really like the uniqueness of Galloway.  he plays with a lot of pace on the offensive end and is not only pass first, but almost pass only.  he needs to be a little bit of a scoring threat against good teams, but it is nice to see how he sets everyone up.  i think people are going a little overboard with him, but he is a very nice surprise to me.  

[DWB]

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Galloway light years better? He’s not a point guard and, clearly, not a scorer. Apples and oranges. He looks solid in the games I’ve watched and excellent downhill, but he hasn’t shot well at all, and has a bad release. His shot needs a lot of work. Again though it’s just not a comparison Galloway is not an on ball player - the players Lander would come in for are Rob and Al.

And yet he impacts the game far more than Lander...at this point...respectfully. I'm not talking about point guard to point guard, but a player that helps the team. Just my 2¢.

I'm sure that from a technical standpoint on Galloway's shot, etc you are correct. I just know what I saw had greater impact on the game.

[NCHoosier32]

2 minutes ago, DWB said:

And yet he impacts the game far more than Lander...at this point...respectfully. I'm not talking about point guard to point guard, but a player that helps the team. Just my 2¢.

I'm sure that from a technical standpoint on Galloway's shot, etc you are correct. I just know what I saw had greater impact on the game.

honestly, i think Lander could do exactly what Galloway is doing and do it better if he just did it.  i think Lander could push it every possession and fast like Galloway does, draw defenders, and kick to shooters, but he hasn't figured it out yet.  i don't think his shot is exactly pretty either and he certainly isn't a scorer yet.  i'll be shocked if Lander doesn't end up way better than Galloway at some point, but i get your points for sure DWB.

[bluegrassIU]

13 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

honestly, i think Lander could do exactly what Galloway is doing and do it better if he just did it.  i think Lander could push it every possession and fast like Galloway does, draw defenders, and kick to shooters, but he hasn't figured it out yet.  i don't think his shot is exactly pretty either and he certainly isn't a scorer yet.  i'll be shocked if Lander doesn't end up way better than Galloway at some point, but i get your points for sure DWB.

Different players. But I think you are right.

Right now, Galloway offers a more ready player. Long run, Landers ceiling is as high as anybody on this team not name TJD.

[tdhoosier]

Good game.

Is Armaan our second best player? At this point I gotta say yes.

I want to see Lander on the court as much as anybody but CAM is defense first. As long as his lapses continue he just won’t be getting the minutes.

I have no idea about how Patrick Stewart will fit it in, but the idea of him and Armaan in the back court either later this season or next season has me really excited. 

[KoB2011]

55 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

How many of those turnovers were BS travel or charging calls?

I thought three of the charges on us were absolutely terrible calls. 

[5fouls]

8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

 

Is Armaan our second best player? At this point I gotta say yes.

 

I was getting ready to post the same thing.  Race would be the only other one in the conversation, but I give Armaan the edge.

 

[IUFLA]

53 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Not helpful, lol, but some others commented on his getting backed under the basket and not playing good D. However again look at the positional sets CAM is running, 3 guards, 2 traditional forwards 

Ok...

His defense was awful again...Butler keyed on him and kept going at him, and he was no match...he made a boneheaded play diving on a pile for a loose ball and picked up a foul...and his hands are still a question mark...

Galloway is getting some of his time simply because he plays defense, values the ball, and makes heady plays... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mchenry34]

As far as players I'd like to see more playing time for, I think that Anthony Leal has to be on the list. In the times that we have seen him I have observed very high BBIQ, a great fundamental approach, great defensive positioning, and a willingness to screen. 

If our Bigs screened like him we would improve offensively immediately...

I know that people wanted to land a bigger and better class this year, but I think that all of our highest BBIQ players are underclassmen and the freshmen have a chance to be a great foundation for the program

[IUFLA]

The way Rob and Al played today, it is hard to see why Kristian didn't see the floor more though...they must be hellacious practice players...

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Not helpful, lol, but some others commented on his getting backed under the basket and not playing good D. However again look at the positional sets CAM is running, 3 guards, 2 traditional forwards 

Its not even that he played bad D, it's that once Hunter came into the game Butler purposefully gave his man the ball and cleared out to attack him 3-4 times in a row. 

It wasn't just a bad possession or two where he got lost, you could tell Butler specially game-planned to go at him, and when they did they usually scored or got fouled. 

On Lander, im not as high on him currently as other. I'm high on him long term but I think he's in over his head right now. With that said, I'd like to see him play with the starters some to see him with some experience with him. It seems right now that he's on the floor a lot with TJD out and Galloway and Hunter in. That's not giving him a lot of support out there. 

[bluegrassIU]

I just don't get the folks always down on Al.

Today he was 5 for 10. 11 points.

Tied for team lead with 8 rebounds!

4 assists 1 turnover.

So,

11pts, 8 rebs, 4 assts, 1 turnover.

And all I hear is bench him?

[HoosierDom]

23 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I was getting ready to post the same thing.  Race would be the only other one in the conversation, but I give Armaan the edge.

 

Yup, neither has established himself as the clear number 2, but those are the only two options, at least so far.

[TheWatShot]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

was tough to watch for a while, but turns out a nice win.  we were 32nd in votes in the AP coming into the week.  so far 5 teams between #18-31 have lost.  if NC loses to KY and Rutgers loses to Illinois, i could see us landing at #25 in the new poll.  if not very close.  unfortunately we start the up and down soon.  gonna be hard to win more than 1 or two in a row the rest of the way.  i am so pleasantly surprised by Franklin!  people did get a little over excited about Thompson, but he is still greatly improved.  Hunter, RP, and Al still not getting it done.  still hard to say that Lander makes us better though.  depressing to see OSU taking control over NW in football.  oh well.  

Every time we get into the 26-30 range, we lose, and it's usually ugly. That's probably where we'll be in the next poll, and we play at Illinois on the 26th. 

 

This program has just become allergic to the top 25. We're pushing two years now since our last appearance. I doubt too many would have expected that this deep into the Archie Miller era. 

[madmax]

23 minutes ago, mchenry34 said:

As far as players I'd like to see more playing time for, I think that Anthony Leal has to be on the list. In the times that we have seen him I have observed very high BBIQ, a great fundamental approach, great defensive positioning, and a willingness to screen. 

If our Bigs screened like him we would improve offensively immediately...

I know that people wanted to land a bigger and better class this year, but I think that all of our highest BBIQ players are underclassmen and the freshmen have a chance to be a great foundation for the program

Have to disagree. Leal may have the IQ defensively, but at this point in his development he has no quickness laterally as evidenced in Maui.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Agree. Especially when it appears Rob is having an off day and in foul trouble. 

I’m not trying to be overly critical either, we got the W, but we did it while a key on ball guard wasn’t hitting shots and got to 4 fouls, and while I didn’t watch the game that to me is opportunity lost to continue to develop Lander, who could help later in the year. Not a game - imo - where playing only 8 guys and limiting Lander to 2 min will help the team.

Thing was Butler was playing freshman too...Lander would have been able to handle them easily.

[NCHoosier32]

6 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Every time we get into the 26-30 range, we lose, and it's usually ugly. That's probably where we'll be in the next poll, and we play at Illinois on the 26th. 

 

This program has just become allergic to the top 25. We're pushing two years now since our last appearance. I doubt too many would have expected that this deep into the Archie Miller era. 

agreed.  we're about to hit that stretch where we get super excited because we win a home game and start talking about how good we are looking, then we play a really good team and/or on the road and lose the next game and everyone is saying fire Arch.  buckle up!

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Thing was Butler was playing freshman too...Lander would have been able to handle them easily.

Really? Our veterans struggled to handle their freshmen. Two of their freshmen had like 17 points combined at the half. 

[NCHoosier32]

45 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Good game.

Is Armaan our second best player? At this point I gotta say yes.

I want to see Lander on the court as much as anybody but CAM is defense first. As long as his lapses continue he just won’t be getting the minutes.

I have no idea about how Patrick Stewart will fit it in, but the idea of him and Armaan in the back court either later this season or next season has me really excited. 

he obviously was today, but be careful.  everyone got so excited about Race after one big game and he's come back down to earth now.  both guys are undoubtedly greatly improved, but we'll see which players show up next game.

[13th&Jackson]

Wonder how many P5 teams, who have played 7 or so games, have only played two on their home court?

[dgambill]

20 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

I just don't get the folks always down on Al.

Today he was 5 for 10. 11 points.

Tied for team lead with 8 rebounds!

4 assists 1 turnover.

So,

11pts, 8 rebs, 4 assts, 1 turnover.

And all I hear is bench him?

There is so much that doesn’t show up in a box score it isn’t funny. When Rob came out and he ran the point...the offense looked horrible. He stops ball movement by dribbling the air out of the ball...he drives with no where to go...I mean anybody that is playing 36 frickin minutes!!!! Better put up a bunch more stats...just saying there were minutes we could have played Lander and he would have done no worse.

[dgambill]

11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Really? Our veterans struggled to handle their freshmen. Two of their freshmen had like 17 points combined at the half. 

Their freshman aren’t better than Lander...Butler had some shots fall in the first half but they came back to the mean in the second. First half was just very lazy bball by us. Speaks more to how poorly we played in the first then anything...and kind of goes to my point...why not play Lander 4-5 mins a half.

[BGleas]

Just now, dgambill said:

Their freshman aren’t better than Lander...Butler had some shots fall in the first half but they came back to the mean in the second. First half was just very lazy bball by us. Speaks more to how poorly we played in the first then anything...and kind of goes to my point...why not play Lander 4-5 mins a half.

I think their freshmen are better than Lander is right now. I'm high on Lander's potential of course, but right now he's in over his head a tad IMO. 

[dgambill]

Just now, BGleas said:

I think their freshmen are better than Lander is right now. I'm high on Lander's potential of course, but right now he's in over his head a tad IMO. 

I disagree..no since arguing. Their guards weren’t pressuring the ball...weren’t anything special imo. You have to bring Khristian along somehow...today was a perfect opportunity imo. Just my humble opinion. You know I respect you Bgleas...I know the game has been a little fast for him but to me Butler plays methodical..I think he could have handled the competition.