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Northwestern Pregame

Hoosierfan1901

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BobSaccamanno

BobSaccamanno

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Posted
2 minutes ago, DWB said:

I've gone thru the schedule a couple of times in the last 2 weeks, I'm thinking 13-7...maybe...14-6 (because of our defense).

The conference is deep but nobody is outright scary.   We’ve got one of the best players in Trayce and he’s been incredible lately.  His athleticism, mobility, hands and power are great.  You’ve got a perfect big to complement him in Race.  You’ve got two guards who can make plays and shoot in Durham and Franklin.  Those are components for a team that can win games.  

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IUCrazy2

IUCrazy2

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

I understand where you are coming from. I wasnt trying to insinuate that you were or anyone was pining for crean. Georgia just so happened to be the only game i watched some of last night.

My point is that i would rather have a team that battles and loses from time to time because of missing shots, than a talented team that may win more, but loses because of lack of effort. just my opinion.

My preference is to win more than lose, but if I have to watch a loss, yes, I prefer one where the effort is there but maybe shots are not falling to ones where the effort just is not there.  That being said, if I have a team that puts in poor effort in their only 5 losses on the year as opposed to a team that puts in high effort every game but loses 20 (think Crean's first year) I will choose option number 1 every time.

Winning is where the bread is buttered.

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NCHoosier32

NCHoosier32

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DWB said:

I've gone thru the schedule a couple of times in the last 2 weeks, I'm thinking 13-7...maybe...14-6 (because of our defense).

WOW!  really?  14-6 or 13-7?  which of these games do you see us winning?  @Iowa @MSU @Illinois @Wisconsin @Rutgers

@OSU Vs. Iowa Vs. Mich St. Vs. Illinois vs. Rutgers  @ Purdue?  that's 11 games.  if we win 3 of those, i will be very happy.  that would be 8 losses with 3 very good wins and no slip ups against some other pretty good teams!  man, i hope you're right!

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ledies22

ledies22

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Posted
1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

My preference is to win more than lose, but if I have to watch a loss, yes, I prefer one where the effort is there but maybe shots are not falling to ones where the effort just is not there.  That being said, if I have a team that puts in poor effort in their only 5 losses on the year as opposed to a team that puts in high effort every game but loses 20 (think Crean's first year) I will choose option number 1 every time.

Winning is where the bread is buttered.

yeah. i think my threshold would be 5 wins. maybe 3 in conference.

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DWB

DWB

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3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

WOW!  really?  14-6 or 13-7?  which of these games do you see us winning?  @Iowa @MSU @Illinois @Wisconsin @Rutgers

@OSU Vs. Iowa Vs. Mich St. Vs. Illinois vs. Rutgers  @ Purdue?  that's 11 games.  if we win 3 of those, i will be very happy.  that would be 8 losses with 3 very good wins and no slip ups against some other pretty good teams!  man, i hope you're right!

I think we "can" win @OSU, @Rutgers (no fans), and PUke. If not Rutgers, MSU. I realize it might be a stretch, but I'm encouraged by the way the guys are playing of late. If they keep getting better, and Al or Rob heat up from outside a little, and IF we get Joey back to help out down low. It could happen !

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PhinithreeMagic

PhinithreeMagic

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2 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I will be disappointed with 10 and 10.  At a certain point I don't want to hear about how good our schedule is, the coach needs to put together a team and a plan to compete with that schedule.  10 and 10 is not something I will be thrilled about in year 4.  

Tired of mediocre results and .500 in conference is M-E-D-I-O-C-R-E.  That is a 15-12 overall record which is just garbage at Indiana.  Sorry.  I know that this program has basically been wrecked by its caretakers but my lord, I think we have to start having some expectations at some point.  This idea that it is soooooo hard to build a basketball team at one of the Top 8 programs (historically) in the nation is just poppycock.  Rutgers was 6th in the conference last year, their coach entering the same year at Rutgers as Archie is this and they finished in the top half of the conference.  Brad Underwood started the same year as Miller and they are ranked.

Excuses are done for me.  Results are what matter.  Other coaches in the same conference who have been around about as long as Miller are already in people's "that is going to be next to impossible to win" column and we are talking like 10-10 is an accomplishment.   Barf.

Lots to unpack here but my main reaction to this is context matters. The reality is that 10-10 (or 11-9 as we are projected) in conference is not mediocre when all but 2-3 of those games will be Quad 1. It's firmly inside the Top 25 . I want to see IU return to perennial Top 10 status like everyone else. But, I'm not going to beat my head against a wall screaming garbage at being Top 25.

Some additional context - we are projected, in a shortened season, to have 18 Quad 1 games this year (using KP rankings as of today). In a full season last year, the most Quad 1 games played by any team in the country was Wisconsin at 18. So even in a shortened season, we will have more premiere games than any team in the country played last year. In Wisconsin's case, they went 10-8 in those games. Round that off to 20 games and we're dead-on with our projected B10 record from KenPom of 11-9. This is for a team that ended the season at 23 NET, 26 RPI, 22 KenPom, finished 3rd in conference, and was projected a #4 seed in the NCAAT. Take away all their cupcake games to start the year (Quad3/4) that we aren't getting this year, they would have been 13-9. Not super far off from your "15-12 is garbage" quote above.

I bring this up because that is how tremendously difficult the Big10 is this year. And just because some of these other teams (Rutgers, Illinois) have the benefit of pre-season hype in the media-produced rankings doesn't diminish what we've seen on the court so far. I've seen a lot of these keyboard ultimatums the past couple weeks but the reality is this team is shaping up to be the best yet for Archie and one that will grade out very well come March if we are able to play the full schedule. Really seems like some of you just need to sit back and let the games happen and stop hand-wringing over every potential negative you can find.

 

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BobSaccamanno

BobSaccamanno

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54 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

WOW!  really?  14-6 or 13-7?  which of these games do you see us winning?  @Iowa @MSU @Illinois @Wisconsin @Rutgers

@OSU Vs. Iowa Vs. Mich St. Vs. Illinois vs. Rutgers  @ Purdue?  that's 11 games.  if we win 3 of those, i will be very happy.  that would be 8 losses with 3 very good wins and no slip ups against some other pretty good teams!  man, i hope you're right!

We have to learn to win some of those games.  We can’t just chalk up ten automatic losses.  They aren’t unbeatable teams.  I understand being skeptical but it’s time.  We don’t have a bunch of holes other than point guard.   Improving by one game over last year isn’t the right trajectory.  I think your projection of three wins out of those eleven isn’t going to cut it.  6-5 or 5-6 could happen and then in the other nine, you go 7-2 and you’re sitting on 12-8.

 I’m standing by that projection, and I’d say that’s success.  Especially if we take care of the ball, play hard nosed D, and become more dynamic on offense.  Our ball movement has been good this year.  All of that is an improvement over the excedrin-inducing turnovers and ignored defense of our prior regime.  But you’ve still got to win games.  Especially Purdue.  Archie can’t be sitting on 0-8 against Purdue.  That performance at home on Knight’s return was unforgivable.  I don’t expect our guards to go into the fetal position again in those two games again.  

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IUCrazy2

IUCrazy2

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22 minutes ago, PhinithreeMagic said:

Lots to unpack here but my main reaction to this is context matters. The reality is that 10-10 (or 11-9 as we are projected) in conference is not mediocre when all but 2-3 of those games will be Quad 1. It's firmly inside the Top 25 . I want to see IU return to perennial Top 10 status like everyone else. But, I'm not going to beat my head against a wall screaming garbage at being Top 25.

Some additional context - we are projected, in a shortened season, to have 18 Quad 1 games this year (using KP rankings as of today). In a full season last year, the most Quad 1 games played by any team in the country was Wisconsin at 18. So even in a shortened season, we will have more premiere games than any team in the country played last year. In Wisconsin's case, they went 10-8 in those games. Round that off to 20 games and we're dead-on with our projected B10 record from KenPom of 11-9. This is for a team that ended the season at 23 NET, 26 RPI, 22 KenPom, finished 3rd in conference, and was projected a #4 seed in the NCAAT. Take away all their cupcake games to start the year (Quad3/4) that we aren't getting this year, they would have been 13-9. Not super far off from your "15-12 is garbage" quote above.

I bring this up because that is how tremendously difficult the Big10 is this year. And just because some of these other teams (Rutgers, Illinois) have the benefit of pre-season hype in the media-produced rankings doesn't diminish what we've seen on the court so far. I've seen a lot of these keyboard ultimatums the past couple weeks but the reality is this team is shaping up to be the best yet for Archie and one that will grade out very well come March if we are able to play the full schedule. Really seems like some of you just need to sit back and let the games happen and stop hand-wringing over every potential negative you can find.

 

Not hand wringing over every negative, I am saying that my expectation is that we finish in the top half of the conference in year 4 and that we have a better than .500 record in conference.  I legitimately don't care how tough the conference is because every other team in the conference is facing the same teams.  If someone has an easier road, it would be because we are playing them and they are playing us.

If you were an Illinois fan right now, be honest, would 10-10 be an acceptable record for you this year?  If the answer is no, why?  And if the answer is no, please explain why I as an Indiana fan should be happy about that "progress" when we hired our coaches at the same time? 

You can find an excuse for losing any time.  They are plentiful.  Injuries.  Tough schedule.  Shots just wouldn't fall.  I used to hear that quite a bit from fans of other teams.  "Well we would have won if X,Y, and Z".  And you know what we said about them?  Excuses are for losers and losers generally have a bunch of them.

I am not even necessarily disappointed with where we are at so far this season.  I have seen some good and some bad.  My point is just that if Miller is going to continue to push the program forward, he needs to win because after a certain point, no matter what people think the statistics say about improvement, if you don't start winning games in your conference, people don't believe your vision.  He. Has. To. Win.

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NCHoosier32

NCHoosier32

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2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

We have to learn to win some of those games.  We can’t just chalk up ten automatic losses.  They aren’t unbeatable teams.  I understand being skeptical but it’s time.  We don’t have a bunch of holes other than point guard.   Improving by one game over last year isn’t the right trajectory.  I think your projection of three wins out of those eleven isn’t going to cut it.  6-5 or 5-6 could happen and then in the other nine, you go 7-2 and you’re sitting on 12-8.

 I’m standing by that projection, and I’d say that’s success.  Especially if we take care of the ball, play hard nosed D, and become more dynamic on offense.  Our ball movement has been good this year.  All of that is an improvement over the excedrin-inducing turnovers and ignored defense of our prior regime.  But you’ve still got to win games.  Especially Purdue.  Archie can’t be sitting on 0-8 against Purdue.  That performance at home on Knight’s return was unforgivable.  I don’t expect our guards to go into the fetal position again in those two games again.  

well, i'm a little confused.  i'm not sure if i understand what you're saying.  i totally agree that we need to learn to win some of those games, but that doesn't mean we'll just win them because it's time.  i certainly don't want the team to chalk up 10 losses, but if that's where we stack up, then that's where we stack up.  all of those teams are ranked ahead of us other than Purdouche and many are on the road.  i also agree that those teams aren't unbeatable, but it is likely we will be underdogs in all of those games.  when you say my projection of 3 wins out of those 11 isn't going to cut it, i hope you understand that isn't my goal.  i hope we win all 11 of them.  i just can't imagine winning more than 3 of them.  i guess i see your view of not many holes, but at the same time, TJD is the only guy in the starting lineup ranked higher than #130 coming into college.  i like our ball movement and defense as well.  totally agree that we need to actually win games against good teams.  again, i'm not saying it is okay or my goal to go 10-10.  just because i think we need to do better doesn't mean we will though.  definitely agree about Purdouche.  kills me when we lose to them.  losing to them in that particular game was a very inexcusable lack of heart.  so...i'm not sure how much we disagree.  i guess you're projecting what you want us to do this year and i'm projecting what i think we'll do this year.  that's the main difference, right?  if not, sorry i misunderstand.  

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BobSaccamanno

BobSaccamanno

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Point taken.  I may have been making two points that merged.  

First, it’s year four for Archie and he’s got his roster.  We’ve got the component parts for success including veterans, a star player, etc.  We are in position to win 12 games.  I don’t think some of those games you listed in the eleven are losses at all.  In other words, I don’t think we go 3-8 in those games.  

Second, it’s not a success if I’m wrong.  If you go 10-10 after being 9-11, the difference is noise. Nothing would tell you that you’re on the right track a la Tony Bennett which is what started this.  Maybe next year you go 11-9 and then you drop back to 9-11 blah blah blah.  There is no hockey stick parabolic trend indicating consistent long term success as with Bennett.  

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NCHoosier32

NCHoosier32

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Posted
12 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Point taken.  I may have been making two points that merged.  

First, it’s year four for Archie and he’s got his roster.  We’ve got the component parts for success including veterans, a star player, etc.  We are in position to win 12 games.  I don’t think some of those games you listed in the eleven are losses at all.  In other words, I don’t think we go 3-8 in those games.  

Second, it’s not a success if I’m wrong.  If you go 10-10 after being 9-11, the difference is noise. Nothing would tell you that you’re on the right track a la Tony Bennett which is what started this.  Maybe next year you go 11-9 and then you drop back to 9-11 blah blah blah.  There is no hockey stick parabolic trend indicating consistent long term success as with Bennett.  

i disagree with your first paragraph and agree with your second one.  it's ain't 2 out of 3, but not bad.  i hope you're right and i hope we win more than 3 of those games, but keep in mind... to continue to be a doubter... i forgot @ Michigan in that group and even vs. Michigan.  not that we'll lose all 13 of those games, but dang!  the other question i have is do we lose more home games this year without our crowd?  do we win more road games without the crowd?  probably yes and yes.  will it help more than hurt or hurt more than help?  

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BEKA

BEKA

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Posted

Dear Archie and IUMBB Hoosiers (and Santa), 

Start and finish this one strong. Get off to a good start and surprise the doubters and establish yourselves as a top team in the conference. I ask this as a Christmas wish for all of us, but especially for CC and MileHi. Get it done and start a new day for IUBB. 

Peace on earth, 

BEKA

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