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Where do you stand & what do you do?


KoB2011

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1 hour ago, rico said:

The only thing I have gathered from this thread is what you guys do/did for a living.

Now how does that correlate to how we feel about Archie?  I am patiently waiting for an answer and the metrics behind it.

I agree with that.  I don’t see the correlation with profession.  I’d think age would be far more interesting but I think even that would lead to anecdotal observations.  I don’t believe in dismissing any particular generation or profession or income or whatever.  There can be problematic people in any subgroup. 

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To answer the question, I’ve written in a ton of posts on this, as recently as yesterday.  I hope I’m not too repetitive. 

I still back Archie.  I like the defense and emphasis on minimizing turnovers.  On offense, our ball movement is good.  Defense travels and can keep you in games regardless of other circumstances.  Minimizing mistakes can also help you win. Knight, Belichick et al. understood that reducing mistakes is a huge part of winning.  On offense, we are moving the ball much better.  It’s a pleasure to see that.  I don’t want to trash Crean because he did some good things.  But to set up the contrast, those three points are things I’ve wanted for years.   I’d hate to go to another coach and all of a sudden we are back to weak defense or careless basketball etc. So, Archie has a great priority list to my way of thinking.  

Yesterday, I was very pleased with the defense and control of tempo (until late).  I think that’s a very, very good sign. That can be very dangerous to deal with especially if this is becoming a permanent feature.  If you want to look at something that can take hold and lead to huge success, this would be near the top   

At the same time, I’m not in the “defend Archie to the death regardless of the facts” cohort.  I have always spoken my mind, good or bad, on what I see.  It doesn’t mean I’m right but that’s my opinion.  

For example, we’ve got guys who reflexively defend everything emotionally including the fact that we lost Kaufman.  No matter how you spin it that was a seismic blow to the program.  And it doesn’t matter what we say overall because—to use a lame platitude—talk is cheap.  It’s going to be his record and whether he can defend it with a straight face at Indiana.  

In the end, I kind of think he’s got three outstanding starters who can compete at the highest level and two below average starters for this level.  So, I kind of think it’s more Rob and Al being the problem, not the coaching. If we get our 2022 targets, including guys like Avery Brown and CJ Gunn, maybe Archie’s fate improves.  Gun to head, I kind of think that is the major issue.  I just don’t see any coach winning regularly with Rob and Al logging heavy minutes.  You can say they are Archie’s guys and that’s true.  You could add he didn’t emphasize shooters in recruiting.  But it’s rectifyable.  

The biggest concern I would have is Archie turning in a lackluster record the next two years.  The narrative will be he didn’t do enough.  And we could move on even though the real issue was a couple of players that he hung his hat on.  The problem is we move on and we back slide again.  I really, really want Archie to succeed.  And if you see me being critical at times, don’t take it personally.  They are my observations.  It doesn’t mean I have everything right and it definitely doesn’t mean I’m anti-Coach.  

As for next year, if Trayce stays we could be really good.  If he leaves, I could see us piece together a couple of transfers.  Keion Brooks and Jake LaRavia come to mind but there may be lots of possibilities.

The rest of this season, I hope we see Lander, Geronimo to continue to get playing time so they get more and more comfortable.  Trey is a given.  Geronimo has a ridiculous skill set.  Projecting to the future, these guys can bring elements we can use.  Of course I really like Galloway at many levels.  Leal may not be ready but I like him too.  He isn’t there defensively and understanding the system but he’s big and strong.  I think he learns how to use all that defensively.  

I also don’t subscribe to the theory of spinning losses because the opponent is good.  That’s loser talk IMO.  Too much permissiveness is a plague.  We will always play a tough schedule. This is Indiana.  We need to win more than our share of games against good teams.  I reject that argument out of hand.  Running to excuses is unbecoming and not what IU fans have been taught to believe in over the past 50 years.  Excuses are what our opponents historically provided.  It’s a terrible attitude in general but especially sports.   

I am an attorney and partner in a law firm with several offices and I’m in the head office in Chicago. 

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There are a lot of really good thoughts and responses in this thread.

I am an oddity,  an IU grad that is a full time farmer.  I live a mile from Ohio, so when I am at a lot of ag related meetings I always wear IU gear while surrounded by Purdue and OSU fans.

I did work in market research for a while,  and was also a High School Athletic Director prior to the career change. 

Archie hasn't been terrible,  but I just don't see the progress that should be made by year 4.  He and the program have been very mediocre.  Still hasn't won against PU.  Probably would have been in the tournament last year,  but just barely. 

For the first time in my life, I am watching IU basketball and not invested emotionally in the outcome.   For the better part of a decade now, I have felt more emotionally invested in IUFB than IUBB.

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5 hours ago, Southern IN Hoosier said:

Yes Archie can get us to the place that all IU fans want to be. He has the defensive schemes to do it. He recruits well enough to get it done. 
Has he missed on some recruits? Yes

Does his offense stink? Yes

but those are things that can change and I think will. 

I am an insurance agent. 

Im a job site Superintendent for a Mechanical Contractor...2 things stand out in your comments...missed recruits and the offense stinks...i think we missed out on recruits because of his offense this year and i think he will continue to do so which going forward is not good..TJD will be gone and next year so far doesn't look all that great to be honest...and thats if no one transfers...i was looking at the recruiting page for next year and didn't really see any names that jump off the page that we have a real shot with.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

My guess is he was looking to see if anyone had a coaching background.  

Coaching background is one interesting thing, yes. But also I think it's interesting how someone that is a Project Manager that has handled big projects before looks at things, as an example. 

Our perceptions are colored by our experiences. I'd say what we do, or did, for 40 hours a week has the potential to make up a lot of that color. 

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57 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I agree with that.  I don’t see the correlation with profession.  I’d think age would be far more interesting but I think even that would lead to anecdotal observations.  I don’t believe in dismissing any particular generation or profession or income or whatever.  There can be problematic people in any subgroup. 

Definitely not dismissing based on profession. I think we all have valid viewpoints. 

I'll use myself as an example, though, I don't deal with much "transactional" and quick on a day in and day out basis, so I'm more inclined to look for slow progress and building toward a goal over time, where as someone that has different things they do for work and are measured on they will look at it differently. 

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6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'll use myself as an example, though, I don't deal with much "transactional" and quick on a day in and day out basis, so I'm more inclined to look for slow progress and building toward a goal over time, where as someone that has different things they do for work and are measured on they will look at it differently. 

Thanks for explaining. That makes sense and is a valid query.  

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3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

For those that say the offense "stinks" do you mean conceptually or execution wise?

Good question.  I mean look at Rob.  He averages something like 2 assists.  C’mon, that’s a liability.  When he gets the ball at the top, he doesn’t see the floor well.  The low assist average isn’t some fluke.  It’s telling. 

If I had to make an analogy, Rob is like the quarterback who checks down constantly.  

I am not around him but i would be curious as to how much film time he spends since he should be able to see the floor by now.  Contrast that to Armaan and I bet Armaan heads to  Cook Hall to put up different types of shots at 10 pm on a Saturday. The results speak for themselves.  

I don’t think it’s the system because you see guys like Trey and Armaan with some outstanding passes.  Our good teams always had that and if you’re not getting it from your point guard I’d tend to think it’s not the system.

We have three outstanding starters.  Imagine how tough we would be if the other two spots went to guys of the caliber of our good starters.  I mean, we’ve got Race bodying up Kofi physically.  He lost some but he won some and he’s giving up size but he battled with distinction . 

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10 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Good question.  I mean look at Rob.  He averages something like 2 assists.  C’mon, that’s a liability.  When he gets the ball at the top, he doesn’t see the floor well.  The low assist average isn’t some fluke.  It’s telling. 

If I had to make an analogy, Rob is like the quarterback who checks down constantly.  

I am not around him but i would be curious as to how much film time he spends since he should be able to see the floor by now.  Contrast that to Armaan and I bet Armaan heads to  Cook Hall to put up different types of shots at 10 pm on a Saturday. The results speak for themselves.  

I don’t think it’s the system because you see guys like Trey and Armaan with some outstanding passes.  Our good teams always had that and if you’re not getting it from your point guard I’d tend to think it’s not the system.

We have three outstanding starters.  Imagine how tough we would be if the other two spots went to guys of the caliber of our good starters.  I mean, we’ve got Race bodying up Kofi physically.  He lost some but he won some and he’s giving up size but he battled with distinction . 

Sampson use to say...your only as good as your point guard and big.  It's very true.  Our pg's have not penetrated to the free throw line or beyond consistently, something that all good teams are able to do to help collapse D and create mismatches.  

Haven't seen this abilty at IU since Yogi.  

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2 hours ago, rico said:

The only thing I have gathered from this thread is what you guys do/did for a living.

Now how does that correlate to how we feel about Archie?  I am patiently waiting for an answer and the metrics behind it.

That will be coming shortly from IU Scott.  Just be patient.

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1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

In the end, I kind of think he’s got three outstanding starters who can compete at the highest level and two below average starters for this level.  So, I kind of think it’s more Rob and Al being the problem, not the coaching. 

Out of your entire post, this is the one area where I take ( a little ) exception.

If all of us see Al & Rob as a problem, I certainly do, then why doesn't Archie see the problem? Because he doesn't think he has any body ready to step in for them? That's bad coaching. I'd rather see Galloway play point than Al. At least I know the ball wouldn't be in his hands for more than 2-3 seconds before he passes it off, and he wouldn't waste 10 seconds getting the ball up the floor. Has Trey had some TO's? Yes, but many of them were when he was trapped in the corner with a double team on him, because the other guards were standing around on offense.

In my mind, play either Al or Rob, with Lander/Leal/Bybee or Fred Freeps if necessary. Or go to 3 forwards (incl TJD). CAM has a lot of choices, he just doesn't use them.

I know it's not realistic right now (it was for 3 out the first 5 games though) was to play the 4 freshman with TJD/Race. We saw that once, and the ball moved better than I've seen in the past 4 years. (yes, I'm exaggerating...a little) 

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34 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

For those that say the offense "stinks" do you mean conceptually or execution wise?

That's a good, though loaded question. 

Conceptually, IU sets are good. We run what pretty much every team in college basketball runs. Offense has actually lost a ton of creativity in college basketball over the years and pretty much every team runs the same dribble-drive and dribble hand-off pick and roll/pop actions. 

I also feel like when IU does run actual sets we score or at least get the shot we're trying to get. 

So schematically there isn't really anything wrong with the offense. 

So then we move to things like pace/tempo, and Archie's coaching temperment/philosophy. 

Our tempo has been slow and methodical the last three years, but you can see that changing with guys like Galloway, Franklin and Lander, as opposed to guys like Phinisee and Durham. 

So, has Archie changed? Did he just need 'his guys', is this what we can expect going forward? I know I like the tempo/pace much better with freshmen and sophomores on the court. 

Finally, how does Archie coach offense philosophy? We don't shoot a ton of 3's per game since he's been here and we lack confidence in shooting and as a group. So, does Archie rip them for missing shots? Is there something about how he reacts to missed shots that causes guys to be hesitant or do we just lack strong shooters from a personnel standpoint? Franklin seems confident, Lander seems confident, the young guys seem confident. 

I can tell you, I played in college for a coach that would lose his mind on the sideline when you missed and it absolutely impacted our offense some confidence as a team. 

A lot to unpack there, but again schematically there is nothing wrong with IU's offense. My questions are more philosophical and will Archie loosen the reigns with 'his guys'? It seems he is, which I like. 

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BGleas, I always appreciate your first hand examples from your playing days.  That’s so cool that you played and your stories especially pointing.  

By the way, I’m jealous. I wish I  could have played college ball.  

We have that possibility with my nephew.  He is a junior in high school.  He had nine assists and one turnover the other day.  I don’t know if he will play in college. He’s a very good student too and might stick with being a regular student.  

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13 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

BGleas, I always appreciate your first hand examples from your playing days.  That’s so cool that you played and your stories especially pointing.  

By the way, I’m jealous. I wish I  could have played college ball.  

We have that possibility with my nephew.  He is a junior in high school.  He had nine assists and one turnover the other day.  I don’t know if he will play in college. He’s a very good student too and might stick with being a regular student.  

Thanks, I appreciate that, and always enjoy your posts as well! Best of luck to your nephew! It wasn't always easy, but I wouldn't trade the college bball experience for anything. 

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Physician.  I'm still in Archie's camp though I have become a pessimistic IU basketball fan.  I'm starting to believe Archie won't get it done quickly enough to keep his job.  Though, like many others have said, I do like Archie's approach, demeanor, and attitude.  He is a good example of how I want our head basketball coach to look.  I think the 2021 class is going to be a big problem for him moving forward. I'm not sure he'll be able to overcome the misses.  He has to start winning more games no matter the strength of the Big 10. 

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47 minutes ago, DWB said:

Out of your entire post, this is the one area where I take ( a little ) exception.

If all of us see Al & Rob as a problem, I certainly do, then why doesn't Archie see the problem? Because he doesn't think he has any body ready to step in for them? That's bad coaching. I'd rather see Galloway play point than Al. At least I know the ball wouldn't be in his hands for more than 2-3 seconds before he passes it off, and he wouldn't waste 10 seconds getting the ball up the floor. Has Trey had some TO's? Yes, but many of them were when he was trapped in the corner with a double team on him, because the other guards were standing around on offense.

In my mind, play either Al or Rob, with Lander/Leal/Bybee or Fred Freeps if necessary. Or go to 3 forwards (incl TJD). CAM has a lot of choices, he just doesn't use them.

I know it's not realistic right now (it was for 3 out the first 5 games though) was to play the 4 freshman with TJD/Race. We saw that once, and the ball moved better than I've seen in the past 4 years. (yes, I'm exaggerating...a little) 

He did change the lineup yesterday moving Trey into the lineup

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I have never been excited about the hire. I thought we could do better at the time and still feel that way today. He gets paid to win games. It seems like he is a good enough Xs and 0s coach but struggles landing the right recruits to make it work. Sometimes I feel like he puts so much emphasis on defense and not enough on offense to where it scares potential recruits away. I think Lander was a great get, he’s just not ready on the defensive end yet. I think he will be fine and I really hope he doesn’t transfer. I’ve always been a fan of scoring the basketball. If you have to rely on your defense to win you games, than you don’t have the right players in your system.

Porn Star 🤫

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

He did change the lineup yesterday moving Trey into the lineup

Sorry Scott. In my book, that's not a change, that's a tweak. Sit Al & Rob, that would be closer to a change. Run some sets to get somebody other than TJD & Armaan multiple shots, that would be a change. 

I think TJD is very good, Armaan will be better than very good before he's done, but from what I've seen, Galloway's, Hunter's scoring is from option B in the offensive set, not the primary. Race gets a little, but if we really want to be tough to play against, we need more than 2 scorers. (Even though IL only had 2 yesterday)

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1 minute ago, Bowhunter said:

I have never been excited about the hire. I thought we could do better at the time and still feel that way today. He gets paid to win games. It seems like he is a good enough Xs and 0s coach but struggles landing the right recruits to make it work. Sometimes I feel like he puts so much emphasis on defense and not enough on offense to where it scares potential recruits away. I think Lander was a great get, he’s just not ready on the defensive end yet. I think he will be fine and I really hope he doesn’t transfer. I’ve always been a fan of scoring the basketball. If you have to rely on your defense to win you games, than you don’t have the right players in your system.

Porn Star 🤫

Might be right but I disagree that we could have hired anyone who was that much better. Most candidates who are available are not the sure fire home run hire so anyone we would have hired would be a risk.

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