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Where do you stand & what do you do?


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28 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

I've thought about this with our basketball team, and with our football team when we had Wilson.  If you're an offensive or defensive coach, why not try to recruit people who are already good at what you struggle at?  For the football team, Wilson was a mastermind on offense, but he didn't care nearly as much about the defense.  He could turn average into great on offense.  Why not spend 80% of your time and effort trying to recruit a great defense since you can't develop it?  For Archie, why not recruit players who are already great offensive players, and teach them to play defense?

I get that there are 10 million things that go into it, and it isn't as simple as that, but you'd think somewhere we could find some great shooters and teach them to play defense.  Maybe those shooters see how we play and aren't interested in playing here?  You'd still think we'd be able to find a lights out shooter somewhere.

I agree with your thoughts on this. I think he plans to get defensive talent and then teach them how to shoot. I think we’re finding out that’s not as easy as it sounds. I think he still looks at recruits as being 4 year players for the most part and getting the best from them in their last 2 years. I think that’s why he doesn’t push the frosh to play a big role for the most part. I think you can get there with that philosophy but it takes a lot of years. Years I’m not sure he has...

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I am on the fence. I loved the hire and was fired up when Archie began locking down the state. It seemed the ingredients were there for what we have all dreamed of- a tough, hard nosed, fundamentally sound team comprised of home-grown Indiana kids who wanted to represent what this game means to this state. However, so far in 3 1/4 seasons, it is not panning out. I am still someone who believes the strength and conditioning training is geared more toward the NFL, and is messing with shots, but I digress... I like Archie. He was kind to my daughter when she met him at the Seymour Regionals a couple years ago. I want more than anything for him to succeed. And I think he is building something, but I think the change is too gradual for most of our liking. I truly think this team is improved this season, but we have fallen so far behind the rest of the B1G that it may be in vain. The most disappointing thing to me is watching crisp ball movement, and a well-conceived play, only to end in a clanky brick, banging off the rim, over and over again, which always seems

to spur the opponent to some kind of run because their shots fall while ours do not. We simply cannot shoot the ball, and the greater debate of recruiting “athletes” vs shooters can go on in other threads. The missed shots seem to lead to lost confidence and sloppy play. I can’t understand why they can’t hot shots. Luke Brown is considered not “athletic “ enough to play in the Big Ten, but I saw him score 18 points in the first quarter hitting shots all over the court at New Albany High School- the likes of which have not been seen since Romeo, and Luke is also an incredible passer. What  does Archie need to do to teach them to shoot? I think there is room for a Luke Brown. Maybe Stewart can help?

 

I am a part time minister and work as a Trainer/ Subject Matter Expert at a Pharmaceutical company.

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24 minutes ago, Rev_AK said:

I am on the fence. I loved the hire and was fired up when Archie began locking down the state. It seemed the ingredients were there for what we have all dreamed of- a tough, hard nosed, fundamentally sound team comprised of home-grown Indiana kids who wanted to represent what this game means to this state. However, so far in 3 1/4 seasons, it is not panning out. I am still someone who believes the strength and conditioning training is geared more toward the NFL, and is messing with shots, but I digress... I like Archie. He was kind to my daughter when she met him at the Seymour Regionals a couple years ago. I want more than anything for him to succeed. And I think he is building something, but I think the change is too gradual for most of our liking. I truly think this team is improved this season, but we have fallen so far behind the rest of the B1G that it may be in vain. The most disappointing thing to me is watching crisp ball movement, and a well-conceived play, only to end in a clanky brick, banging off the rim, over and over again, which always seems

to spur the opponent to some kind of run because their shots fall while ours do not. We simply cannot shoot the ball, and the greater debate of recruiting “athletes” vs shooters can go on in other threads. The missed shots seem to lead to lost confidence and sloppy play. I can’t understand why they can’t hot shots. Luke Brown is considered not “athletic “ enough to play in the Big Ten, but I saw him score 18 points in the first quarter hitting shots all over the court at New Albany High School- the likes of which have not been seen since Romeo, and Luke is also an incredible passer. What  does Archie need to do to teach them to shoot? I think there is room for a Luke Brown. Maybe Stewart can help?

 

I am a part time minister and work as a Trainer/ Subject Matter Expert at a Pharmaceutical company.

Listening to Brian Evans and Todd Leary they kind of hinted that they are not a fan of all the stuff about the wright room.  They said they are more worried about find players who can play the game and shoot the ball

 

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I supported the Archie hire because he prioritized defense and I liked his Dayton teams. I also liked the inside out recruiting effort. I was tired of every elite Indiana HS player not even considering IU. 
 

However, this is a results driven business and he’s running out of time. The team has improved each year, but I don’t think it will be enough to satiate the fan base and boosters. I don’t know if he will have enough time to “get old and stay old”. The problem is the elite players only stay 1-2 years and 3 if you’re lucky. That strategy works at smaller schools because it’s assumed most players will be there 3-4 years and you can catch lightning in a bottle every few years.

I’m 36 with an MBA and I do data analytics for a healthcare firm in South Bend. 

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I still have hope that we will turn the corner.  But its getting harder.  I think CAM can get the job done.  He cant make the shots for them. I think he needs to encourage/put a foot in the ass to do non practice shooting work 

Currently looking for a job but was working as a Microbiology lab analyst.

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10 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

Now if everybody can take the Myers Briggs personality test and add their result to the responses above. 😁

....and your astrological sign. 

Well if you need to know.  I am INTJ and an Aries.  Which explains alot.

I would say this is a fairly accurate description of my personality.

https://www.truity.com/personality-type/INTJ

 

 

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5 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Maybe it's me, but I think that's more excusable than a player in his 3rd year in the program having to be told where to go on an offensive set...

I expect mistakes from all of the kids...but I expect less mistakes from the veterans...

I think you believe I have it in for Jerome...nothing could be further from the truth...I see what he can bring if he can work out some of them kinks to his game... Just has to be there mentally...

 

Well you do kind of look for the negative as to Jerome, you obviously singled him out, it’s his 2d year fwiw. Adragna speculated maybe he has lost some confidence, could be, keep coming back to this but for the sake of having the ability to score I want to see guys playing through mistakes not sat while the team struggles to score. That also affects confidence 

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8 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Well you do kind of look for the negative as to Jerome, you obviously singled him out, it’s his 2d year fwiw. Adragna speculated maybe he has lost some confidence, could be, keep coming back to this but for the sake of having the ability to score I want to see guys playing through mistakes not sat while the team struggles to score. That also affects confidence 

I just call them like I see them...the margin of error for this team is very small...Someone else pointed out how Butler specifically went at Jerome when he was in the game...We can't afford having a guy out there who'll score 3 but give up 6...

And though this is his second year playing, he has been on campus and around the program for over 3 years now...He can have all the confidence in the world, but if he doesn't know the playbook or where to be on each end of the floor, that's not something I think CAM can overlook...Most coaches I know will tell you they can live with the physical mistakes, but it's the mental mistakes that are hard to swallow...Couple that with the fact that Jerome's lateral quickness and strength (at least playing the 4 like we need him to currently) aren't elite, and I'd think he would try to capitalize of every advantage technique and the playbook could give him...

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Here is where I am with CAM. Was not thrilled with the hire have always felt we could do better but who?? I like the idea of what he sold to the fans but I don't feel that he has lived up to what he preaches. I don't see the accountability that I wold expect from someone that I felt would be a hard nosed bulldog type of coach. We see glimpses of what might be but never seem to build upon it and move forward. For 4 years I see the same mistakes, the same patterns and I just think he is a guy that needs a certain type of player and for what ever reason we don't have them. There is a huge issue with guys not hitting shots. There is something much bigger going on here. Are guys afraid? I don't think so. I have not seen him go crazy on anyone for missing shots. Are they not getting enough game speed reps? I don't know. Anyone player with a ball in their hand everyday can hit shots, not all of them can hit at game speed. For some reason in 4 years we do not have a single shooter on this team. I think AF is playing the way that I expected him to play. @RoadToZion and I were very high on this pickup and I think he is starting to scratch the surface on what he can do. I just put my finger on what is going on with this program. I have said many times that we can play with anyone or get beat by anyone. So why can we not sustain the positive play. To me that goes fully on the coach. I have supported every coach and will until they are no longer the coach but I just don't see CAM getting us above middle of the BIG every year. I hate starting over but also hate not making IU basketball must watch TV and this is not much watch. 

On the offense my biggest issue besides not being able to hit shots is that we wait way to long to get into the offense. I am a firm believer that if you are not a good shooting team then you need more shots not less to stay in games. I also think that if a shot is a good shot take it at anytime in the shot clock. We only seem to take shots in the last 10 seconds. For most teams defensive rules begin to change as the shot clock runs out. I don't think we crash the offensive boards very well at all. If you shoot poorly you have to get a few extra attempts. I would love to see us play mush more uptempo. I like CAM the person, I think he is a good coach obviously you cant be terrible and be at that level but I think the ceiling is very low for him and our program. I want so badly to be wrong. I think that the things that he did well at Dayton just have not transferred well to IU and maybe the formula to win in the BIG is different. I have not seen the will to adjust much and that is concerning. I hope for better days but would be more surprised by success that I would be by failing at this point

I am a former High school social studies teacher and varsity basketball coach. I am now the Regional Sales Manager for a commercial sign company in Indianapolis.

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9 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

Well if you need to know.  I am INTJ and an Aries.  Which explains alot.

I would say this is a fairly accurate description of my personality.

https://www.truity.com/personality-type/INTJ

 

 

I took the test a couple of months ago and reading through my profile freaked me out because it was so accurate. Haha. 

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I'm on the fence about Archie and have been from the beginning, but feel I've had to be more of a supporter on here due to over reactionary negativity than I truly am of him. 

I foolishly bought into the Billy D hype circulating the board, so when he was hired it felt like a bit of a let down. I then sold myself on him initially mostly based on his youth allowing him to be here a long time (like the cream of the crop coaches) if he was able to succeed. 

I've been disappointed overall in the success of the program during his tenure, but don't know how much "blame" falls on him and how much falls elsewhere. It seems for every "good" there is an offsetting "bad" and some of the bad is out of his control. Analytically, he has the program headed in the right direction...

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as the 23rd ranked team, but only projected to be 14-13 (9-11). I don't think even the biggest Archie supporters would be happy with those records, but at the same time it's hard to overlook how tough the B1G is and that outside of our one game against Neb (#115) every other team left on the schedule is ranked in the top 54 currently and half of the remaining 18 games are against teams ranked better than us even though we're ranked 23rd. 

Basically, I have no idea if Archie is the guy or not. I also think that trying to build a program during a historically tough B1G run, dealing with COVID, and all of the other "luck" stuff that all coaches deal with to varying degrees (players leaving early, injuries, transfers, administration, etc.) make it all that more difficult. I do feel that any of the other coaches hired around the time of Archie (Holt, Mack, Underwood, etc.) haven't shown me enough that I think they would be doing exceedingly better than Archie at IU if they were hired instead. 

My biggest problem with Archie is that he doesn't seem to tailor his offense and defense to the players he has, he has the players adapt to his systems. I know Romeo had injuries and his numbers were pretty good, but it still seems that he wasn't featured enough during his time here. Why hasn't TJD developed his mid-range and outside jumper more? Why doesn't Lander get more time even if his defense isn't ready? I hope Archie and Lander have a good understanding and this is part of the plan (all mins this year are a bonus since you would still be in HS type of thing), because if KL xfers it would be disastrous IMO. Why not sell TK on being a 3 if that's what he wants/it takes to get him? I know I'm just a fan, so I probably don't have a clue.

I'm a 2nd career CPA Tax Manager after being a Financial Advisor/Stock Broker (Series 7/66) in my 1st career.

 

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I'm still OK with CAM.  I'm an admittedly very patient person. 

I do admit that right now he is making my eyes wonder a bit, kind of like Fouls after three weeks with wife #4. If someone prettier or with bigger assets came along I could be swooned. 

I'm a Sales Manager for a steel firm where I have worked since high school.

In HS, I played bball for a nice guy coach I liked, and football for a fantastic motivator coach I loved. 

I coached 15-17 yr old travel club volleyball teams for over 20 years. By far, the most enjoyable thing I've ever done. Made many friends (parent and players) that I still connect with.

   

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1 hour ago, cybergates said:

Why hasn't TJD developed his mid-range and outside jumper more?

I watched a piece on Luka Garza, and how he developed his game...Fran McCaffery's name was not mentioned one time...

Just either him alone or with his Dad working tirelessly...

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9 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Well you do kind of look for the negative as to Jerome, you obviously singled him out, it’s his 2d year fwiw. Adragna speculated maybe he has lost some confidence, could be, keep coming back to this but for the sake of having the ability to score I want to see guys playing through mistakes not sat while the team struggles to score. That also affects confidence 

It could be as simple as he didn’t hear the play call and Anthony pointed out what set we are running. I think we are just reading too much into to little.
 

I think Archie is a good coach, has a good system both offensively and defensively. The issue comes down to execution and the players. I don’t think it’s as simple as he is a bad coach or doesn’t know what he is doing. We just don’t have the studs that we need to beat most teams in the B1G right now. Our upperclassman are pretty limited athleticislly and simply aren’t great scorers. Neither Al nor Rob have that length of athleticism to score over people or athleticism to beat people off the dribble. Both are good shooters when their feet are set and get an open look...but their shooting drops rapidly when off the dribble or moving. Honestly that is where our issues lie. Sure there are things to fix and guys have good and bad games but the common denominator across our past 4 years that we have struggled is shooting and offensive production in our backcourt. Who are the two players that have been here...Rob and Al. Two guys that weren’t highly ranked because they lacked size and/or athleticism. Is that on Archie...yes/no. He brings the players in...but he is limited by what he has to play. His system is complicated and not easy for even upperclassman much less freshman. So in the end he is responsible but it is also guys play on the court that is putting us where we are. I have confidence in this freshman group but I do think we aren’t where we need to be because of how complex the defense is and how important the fit of players and Archie just doesn’t have it in place. It’s like trying to run a 3-4 defense with 4-3 personnel. Just not there yet and it will take more time...but Archie is running out of it. And just like a couple bad drafts we’ve struck out in 17&18 recruiting classes essentially with maybe 1 player (Race) that is playing at a high level....that hurts and that is also why I worry about the 21 class. It won’t hurt us in 21 but it will in 23/24.

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I was encouraged we went to a zone against Illinois when we had to play several freshman and our lower end defensive players...says Archie will recognize and make changes....how much it’s been practiced and coached is something different entirely but he started a new lineup and he played a zone....he is willing to be flexible. 

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I honestly don't think CAM knows what to do with this much talent.  He is so used to lower talented, higher IQ, work like a dog players vs what you get when you recruit at the B1G level.  You get kids with natural talent who just know how the games feels to them and makes it happen.  The offense and subsequently the defense we run is very rigid doesn't allow for players to just flow into the game.

But if he tried to recruit the same kids he normally would have at Dayton to come to the B1G, he would be out classes in most cases with the occasional Dayton elite 8 type of team.

If he would just be more open to changing his offense and using different defenses to suit your whole team, not just the best 5 who make our defense elite.  Your best offensive kids are not your best defensive kids and he tries to shoehorn them into each.  I think it will be his downfall.  

We will and have gotten better year over year when compared to ourselves.  We have not gotten better year over year when compared to the top 50 programs in the country or the top teams in our conference.  More wins each year has still seen us fall in conference and national standings.

And as a fan i am being apathetic to the IU basketball.  I no longer get Upset or Exicited.  I no longer go out of my way to watch even the biggest games of the year.  If i am around and its on then i will watch it.  But i a, also as likely to go out to eat or shopping with my SO even when i know the game is on.  And this kind of makes me sad to type it.  I used to lov, LOVE IU basketball.  Get mad when they lost, jump up and down when they won a big game.  Glued to the tv to see what seed and who we played.  Now, Meh.

Anywho, I hope we get better faster than we have.  In college sports, its a sprint and not a marathon these days.  Can't spend 10 years getting to where everyone else got to in 4.  Always going to be behind the curve if we do.

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9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Bingo...and to be more succinct about it, understand what @CincyHoosier said in another thread..."College basketball is a guard driven sport" and our current upper class guards aren't performing very well...

Indeed. We have a great center...if we got even good guard play we would be a top team...even more so if we got great guard play. I still remember the UConn run they made those two years...won two NC on guards that got hot. Purdue was a second from a final four because two guards got hot. Villanova essentially a team of shooters and Virginia and their guards. It goes back much further than that...you can talk Arizona NC and so on. Basketball is very much a guard sport. Look at UK...1-6 because they have no real point guard and can’t shoot from outside. They have tons and tons of talent but can’t shoot. Why have they had poor showings the last few years...poor point guard play. I’m right there. I’m sorry I love Rob but he is 5”11 and vastly undersized and not an elite speedster athlete like you see some college guards. Al while bigger is certainly not very athletic compared to his peers. He was ranked in the 250s and he has come along to being a serviceable player but I don’t think he was ever a starting caliber guard in the B1G. Just not going to cut it.

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18 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I honestly don't think CAM knows what to do with this much talent.  He is so used to lower talented, higher IQ, work like a dog players vs what you get when you recruit at the B1G level.  You get kids with natural talent who just know how the games feels to them and makes it happen.  The offense and subsequently the defense we run is very rigid doesn't allow for players to just flow into the game.

But if he tried to recruit the same kids he normally would have at Dayton to come to the B1G, he would be out classes in most cases with the occasional Dayton elite 8 type of team.

If he would just be more open to changing his offense and using different defenses to suit your whole team, not just the best 5 who make our defense elite.  Your best offensive kids are not your best defensive kids and he tries to shoehorn them into each.  I think it will be his downfall.  

We will and have gotten better year over year when compared to ourselves.  We have not gotten better year over year when compared to the top 50 programs in the country or the top teams in our conference.  More wins each year has still seen us fall in conference and national standings.

And as a fan i am being apathetic to the IU basketball.  I no longer get Upset or Exicited.  I no longer go out of my way to watch even the biggest games of the year.  If i am around and its on then i will watch it.  But i a, also as likely to go out to eat or shopping with my SO even when i know the game is on.  And this kind of makes me sad to type it.  I used to lov, LOVE IU basketball.  Get mad when they lost, jump up and down when they won a big game.  Glued to the tv to see what seed and who we played.  Now, Meh.

Anywho, I hope we get better faster than we have.  In college sports, its a sprint and not a marathon these days.  Can't spend 10 years getting to where everyone else got to in 4.  Always going to be behind the curve if we do.

To me that sounds like you have grown up where the outcome of a sporting event shouldn't effect your mood.  I think when everyone was younger the outcome of the game seemed like life or death and the most important thing in the world.  The older you get the more life gets in the way and the more responsibilities you have so you won't be able to watch as much.  I still watch every game and look forward to the games and enjoy watching IU play.  I just don't let a loss effect me like I use to and can move on quickly.  When i was young i was in a terrible mood if we lost and didn't get over it until the next win.

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Absolutely support the slow growth model and support this coach.  I'm frustrated as hell over the Northwestern and Illinois losses but I believe he'll get it figured out. 

I'm an investment advisor and financial planner.  I don't believe in  "get rich quick" schemes and expecting/demanding that IU be at the top right now is kind of like thinking cryptocurrency is a "good investment".

...and as you've probably noticed, I stay the hell away from this board after losses.  I don't read any of that 💩.  Life is too short to spend reading a bunch of foolishness and negativity.  Some of you really need a life away from this forum.  I had a great long weekend celebrating Christmas with my family and barely thinking about IU basketball.  Helped my daughter buy a new car and helped her sell her old one.  If all you did is obsess about a man you have no say in firing or retaining, you...my friends, have a problem.

If that offends you, I'm sorry...I simply didn't read any of the post-game posts so I have little idea who has the pitchforks out right now.  I can say in all honesty that it's nothing personal because I skipped reading everything and marked the entire forum read with a single click.

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1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

Absolutely support the slow growth model and support this coach.  I'm frustrated as hell over the Northwestern and Illinois losses but I believe he'll get it figured out. 

I'm an investment advisor and financial planner.  I don't believe in  "get rich quick" schemes and expecting/demanding that IU be at the top right now is kind of like thinking cryptocurrency is a "good investment".

...and as you've probably noticed, I stay the hell away from this board after losses.  I don't read any of that 💩.  Life is too short to spend reading a bunch of foolishness and negativity.  Some of you really need a life away from this forum.  I had a great long weekend celebrating Christmas with my family and barely thinking about IU basketball.  Helped my daughter buy a new car and helped her sell her old one.  If all you did is obsess about a man you have no say in firing or retaining, you...my friends, have a problem.

If that offends you, I'm sorry...I simply didn't read any of the post-game posts so I have little idea who has the pitchforks out right now.  I can say in all honesty that it's nothing personal because I skipped reading everything and marked the entire forum read with a single click.

Amen

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I am firmly in the Archie camp - I think it takes time to build things correctly. It seems that he refuses to take short cuts. I would rather suffer first than have a quick fix but fizzle out.

I am frustrated that we missed on Kauffman. Look at our classes and tell me that CAM is not upgrading. This years freshman class was not expected to contribute immediately - this was not meant to be "the year."

 

Edit: Forgot the dating website aspect of this thread - I am a Virgo biostatistician who likes long walks and a good book.

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3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Absolutely support the slow growth model and support this coach.  I'm frustrated as hell over the Northwestern and Illinois losses but I believe he'll get it figured out. 

I'm an investment advisor and financial planner.  I don't believe in  "get rich quick" schemes and expecting/demanding that IU be at the top right now is kind of like thinking cryptocurrency is a "good investment".

...and as you've probably noticed, I stay the hell away from this board after losses.  I don't read any of that 💩.  Life is too short to spend reading a bunch of foolishness and negativity.  Some of you really need a life away from this forum.  I had a great long weekend celebrating Christmas with my family and barely thinking about IU basketball.  Helped my daughter buy a new car and helped her sell her old one.  If all you did is obsess about a man you have no say in firing or retaining, you...my friends, have a problem.

If that offends you, I'm sorry...I simply didn't read any of the post-game posts so I have little idea who has the pitchforks out right now.  I can say in all honesty that it's nothing personal because I skipped reading everything and marked the entire forum read with a single click.

I very seldom think of IU basketball. That's to me is a problem. There is not a lot surrounding our program that brings a lot of joy. It's just not a style I enjoy watching . 

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1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

I very seldom think of IU basketball. That's to me is a problem. There is not a lot surrounding our program that brings a lot of joy. It's just not a style I enjoy watching . 

For someone who doesn't think about IU basketball you spend a lot of time on a IU message board

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