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Penn State Pre-Game


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2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

If we lose the fan base will absolutely lose it....like no other time in CAM era. Warranted or not. 

Call it dramatic, but I can't recall a must-win game this early in the season against a lesser opponent. IMO, the stakes are high tonight. 

Well, SOME of the fan base will lose it...I see people pitching in the towel in the first half of games, and I, personally, can't understand that...Not in my nature...

1981 taught me, if anything, stay til the end...When that team was 10-7, no one knew at the end of the year we'd be dancing in the streets...

I know we had a HoF coach and a HoF player on that team, and the odds are against a turnaround like that...But there's always hope...

I just don't understand how or why people give up 10 games into a season...

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39 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

That's the issue though.  We don't expend the pack line out to the shooters.  We dare them to beat by the 3.  The pack line takes away the dribble drive, the pick and roll and the high/low post.  Its not intended to slow down or stop the outside shooting teams

 The player guarding the man with the ball is to provide intense ball-pressure well beyond the three-point line while the other four help defenders are to all be within an imaginary, 16-foot arc.  Some call the pack line a sagging man-to-man. IU does that fairly well.  If a quick pass goes to a shooter that is somewhat beyond the line then the defender should see the pass, having anticipated it, and close rapidly.  If the shooter has a quick release, then an adjustment should be considered. Therein lies the rub.  Players that do not pay attention and do not execute.  Archie then has to substitute a "backup" player that probably doesn't perform as well as the original player.  But I don't see this as the main problem.

Regardless, IU's main problem isn't on defense.  It is on offense, finishing layups, getting the ball across the half court, turnovers, screening, blocking out, playing out of position, playing the whole game, etc.

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20 minutes ago, Air Ball said:

 The player guarding the man with the ball is to provide intense ball-pressure well beyond the three-point line while the other four help defenders are to all be within an imaginary, 16-foot arc.  Some call the pack line a sagging man-to-man. IU does that fairly well.  If a quick pass goes to a shooter that is somewhat beyond the line then the defender should see the pass, having anticipated it, and close rapidly.  If the shooter has a quick release, then an adjustment should be considered. Therein lies the rub.  Players that do not pay attention and do not execute.  Archie then has to substitute a "backup" player that probably doesn't perform as well as the original player.  But I don't see this as the main problem.

Regardless, IU's main problem isn't on defense.  It is on offense, finishing layups, getting the ball across the half court, turnovers, screening, blocking out, playing out of position, playing the whole game, etc.

We agree the offense is atrocious.  I would like to know what our 3 point defensive efficiencies is over the last 4 years.  I know for a fact it was terrible with CTC.

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20 minutes ago, Air Ball said:

 The player guarding the man with the ball is to provide intense ball-pressure well beyond the three-point line while the other four help defenders are to all be within an imaginary, 16-foot arc.  Some call the pack line a sagging man-to-man. IU does that fairly well.  If a quick pass goes to a shooter that is somewhat beyond the line then the defender should see the pass, having anticipated it, and close rapidly.  If the shooter has a quick release, then an adjustment should be considered. Therein lies the rub.  Players that do not pay attention and do not execute.  Archie then has to substitute a "backup" player that probably doesn't perform as well as the original player.  But I don't see this as the main problem.

Regardless, IU's main problem isn't on defense.  It is on offense, finishing layups, getting the ball across the half court, turnovers, screening, blocking out, playing out of position, playing the whole game, etc.

Thanks for the write up.  Are you a coach?

I see what you’re saying about the theory but it does seem like the pack line is susceptible to giving up the three.  Just an observation from seeing various teams run it.  Something has got to give and the pack line makes it hard to score in and around the paint.  

Don’t get me wrong, I like the pack line.  In all the criticism for IU’s lackluster start, I absolutely loved the first 35 minutes or so at Champaign. We totally dictated to Illinois and they were essentially in submission in the half court.  It got away at the end, but the game showed the wonderful potential this defensive scheme can have and really give IU an identity and edge in the future.  

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I can honestly say we look like we’re 11-12 best team in the big ten and have been surpassed by lesser teams. Look at Rutgers...I mean come on...I don’t see Jackson Davis sticking around another year on this team. His body language sometimes suggests “ come on guys, I can’t do it all”...and rightly so. Thankful for Franklin channeling his inner Steve Alford these last few games, but right now with how inept our offense is I can’t see us winning more than 4-5 big ten games. Very disappointed in the state of the program..I will always watch, and always care, but the feeling I use to get watching and now even the hope is gone at this point. I know the big ten is tough, like REALLY tough and losing to Illinois and northwestern isn’t the end of the world, but I feel we haven’t gotten any older or better in the last 2 years...hoping for a good showing tonight. Could use the positivity for the team. 

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13 minutes ago, Hoosierfan1215 said:

I can honestly say we look like we’re 11-12 best team in the big ten and have been surpassed by lesser teams. Look at Rutgers...I mean come on...I don’t see Jackson Davis sticking around another year on this team. His body language sometimes suggests “ come on guys, I can’t do it all”...and rightly so. Thankful for Franklin channeling his inner Steve Alford these last few games, but right now with how inept our offense is I can’t see us winning more than 4-5 big ten games. Very disappointed in the state of the program..I will always watch, and always care, but the feeling I use to get watching and now even the hope is gone at this point. I know the big ten is tough, like REALLY tough and losing to Illinois and northwestern isn’t the end of the world, but I feel we haven’t gotten any older or better in the last 2 years...hoping for a good showing tonight. Could use the positivity for the team. 

Losses:  Texas #8; FSU #18; NW @19; Illinois @15. While IU could have won some or maybe 3 of these, because they lost is not the end of the season.  They are all very good teams.  Sure IU should do better.  I believe they will if we solve the guard problem...and initiate the offense more quickly.  The players keep trying imho.  It isn't over by a long shot.

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5 minutes ago, Air Ball said:

Losses:  Texas #8; FSU #18; NW @19; Illinois @15. While IU could have won some or maybe 3 of these, because they lost is not the end of the season.  They are all very good teams.  Sure IU should do better.  I believe they will if we solve the guard problem...and initiate the offense more quickly.  The players keep trying imho.  It isn't over by a long shot.

Sounds exactly what I was saying to myself in the winter of '88.

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So after watching Izzo start Foster Loyer in place of Aaron Henry against Minnesota (and anyone who's ever seen the 2 play know how wide the talent discrepancy is there) I was wondering...

If we were going to go with different starting guards, would it be better to do it in a game like tonight's? A game where we should win, at home? Or in a game where the odds say we're going to lose, like a Wisconsin game at Madison?

We have the "easiest" (and I say that knowing no part of our B1G schedule is "easy") part of our schedule with PSU and Maryland at home, Wisconsin and Nebraska on the road, Purdue at home, then a date with a struggling Sparty in East Lansing.

I said in another thread, Archie has let the upper classmen have their chance...is the time ripe for the kids to rule the day?

 

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1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

So after watching Izzo start Foster Loyer in place of Aaron Henry against Minnesota (and anyone who's ever seen the 2 play know how wide the talent discrepancy is there) I was wondering...

If we were going to go with different starting guards, would it be better to do it in a game like tonight's? A game where we should win, at home? Or in a game where the odds say we're going to lose, like a Wisconsin game at Madison?

We have the "easiest" (and I say that knowing no part of our B1G schedule is "easy") part of our schedule with PSU and Maryland at home, Wisconsin and Nebraska on the road, Purdue at home, then a date with a struggling Sparty in East Lansing.

I said in another thread, Archie has let the upper classmen have their chance...is the time ripe for the kids to rule the day?

 

man that would be gutsy to do tonight.  it would be devastating if it cost us a win in a game we could/should win.  we need every one we can get.  as tired as i am of Al and Rob, i just don't think you can say that when Lander has been on the floor he looks like he deserves to play starter minutes or gives us a better chance to win.  

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4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

So after watching Izzo start Foster Loyer in place of Aaron Henry against Minnesota (and anyone who's ever seen the 2 play know how wide the talent discrepancy is there) I was wondering...

If we were going to go with different starting guards, would it be better to do it in a game like tonight's? A game where we should win, at home? Or in a game where the odds say we're going to lose, like a Wisconsin game at Madison?

We have the "easiest" (and I say that knowing no part of our B1G schedule is "easy") part of our schedule with PSU and Maryland at home, Wisconsin and Nebraska on the road, Purdue at home, then a date with a struggling Sparty in East Lansing.

I said in another thread, Archie has let the upper classmen have their chance...is the time ripe for the kids to rule the day?

 

The ideal time to do that is against a cupcake but we're unfortunately passed that point of the season. For where in the season it is now, I'd wait for a game they're unlikely to win for the change. But for the games before that, keep the under-performing veterans on a short leash and gradually increase the freshmen playing time.

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6 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

man that would be gutsy to do tonight.  it would be devastating if it cost us a win in a game we could/should win.  we need every one we can get.  as tired as i am of Al and Rob, i just don't think you can say that when Lander has been on the floor he looks like he deserves to play starter minutes or gives us a better chance to win.  

I hear what you're saying...but I've always wondered what practices were like...you know these kids are going head-to-head every day...I wonder if the talent/performance gap is that wide?

I think you're right if for no other reason than that Al and Rob at their current performance rate gives us a chance to beat a PSU...But getting the kids time now might up the ante on games against more capable opponents down the road...

6 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

The ideal time to do that is against a cupcake but we're unfortunately passed that point of the season. For where in the season it is now, I'd wait for a game they're unlikely to win for the change. But for the games before that, keep the under-performing veterans on a short leash and gradually increase the freshmen playing time.

Agree...and the bolded is basically what I think he will do...But I wouldn't be surprised if Galloway starts over Rob again...

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1 hour ago, Air Ball said:

Losses:  Texas #8; FSU #18; NW @19; Illinois @15. While IU could have won some or maybe 3 of these, because they lost is not the end of the season.  They are all very good teams.  Sure IU should do better.  I believe they will if we solve the guard problem...and initiate the offense more quickly.  The players keep trying imho.  It isn't over by a long shot.

Being ranked #40 this year will get you a bottom 4 finish in the BIG.  And the majority of the fanbase is not going to give Miller a lick of credit for finishing 10 or below in year 4 no matter how tough the league is.  This poster included. He is paid well to compete (Read: win games, not just play good teams "tough") in this conference and he needs to do it.

This game is a must win.  If he loses this game, the rest of the season would appear to be in big trouble short of a miracle turnaround...

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1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Being ranked #40 this year will get you a bottom 4 finish in the BIG.  And the majority of the fanbase is not going to give Miller a lick of credit for finishing 10 or below in year 4 no matter how tough the league is.  This poster included. He is paid well to compete (Read: win games, not just play good teams "tough") in this conference and he needs to do it.

This game is a must win.  If he loses this game, the rest of the season would appear to be in big trouble short of a miracle turnaround...

We don't need no stinkin' "moral" victories!!

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3 hours ago, Air Ball said:

Losses:  Texas #8; FSU #18; NW @19; Illinois @15. While IU could have won some or maybe 3 of these, because they lost is not the end of the season.  They are all very good teams.  Sure IU should do better.  I believe they will if we solve the guard problem...and initiate the offense more quickly.  The players keep trying imho.  It isn't over by a long shot.

That to me is the key to offense issues.  How many possessions each game do we waste dribbling and waiting around?  It feels like most plays don't get started until 15 seconds left on the shot clock.

There was a play against Illinois I watched several times, in complete disbelief.   Rob walked up the court, dribbled while everyone looked at each other until about 6 seconds left in the shot clock.  

I  coached Jr. High basketball and the girls I coached had a better sense of urgency on the offensive end.

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13 minutes ago, Andy06 said:

That to me is the key to offense issues.  How many possessions each game do we waste dribbling and waiting around?  It feels like most plays don't get started until 15 seconds left on the shot clock.

There was a play against Illinois I watched several times, in complete disbelief.   Rob walked up the court, dribbled while everyone looked at each other until about 6 seconds left in the shot clock.  

I  coached Jr. High basketball and the girls I coached had a better sense of urgency on the offensive end.

You pretty much summed up a lot of college basketball possession.

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46 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

You pretty much summed up a lot of college basketball possession.

Sadly,  you aren't wrong.  Players moving away from the ball isn't good these days.  Neither is ball movement (especially IU attempting to score against Northwestern's zone)

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Just now, Andy06 said:

Sadly,  you aren't wrong.  Players moving away from the ball isn't good these days.  Neither is ball movement (especially IU attempting to score against Northwestern's zone)

Watching OSU and Neb. and the offense is mainly one on one and very few player movement

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