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Penn State Post-Game Thread


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3 minutes ago, Muddy River said:

This is a myth.  The fan base would lose it's collective mind if CAM played the end of the bench and we lost a winnable game.  You think there were server issues last night?!?

 

 

Could just be me then.  I would really like to see any change to anything based on bad play or execution.  But maybe in my old age i am getting more used to being mediocre and just deal with it lol

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1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

some thoughts - definitely happy to see RP and Al play so much better.  that is huge, but just to stay in my personality... i might warn - could this be ultimately bad going forward?  of course if they keep it up, we're good.  if this performance help them keep their minutes and roles, but they go right back to playing like crap, it just keeps other guys off the floor.  so strange that KL only played 3 minutes again.  i am still not in the camp that says he should just suddenly start, but 3 minutes a game?  not touch the floor in the 2nd half?  just seems weird.  RP and Franklin had too many TOs.  i keep resisting saying how great Galloway is, but he is really starting to even look more offensive and is fun to watch.  i do love CAM's short bench.  i never have been a fan of sitting guys for long or playing #9,10, and on much, but still would like to see Lander at least let's say... 4 minutes a half? 

On RP and Al, they are our senior, experienced guards, we need them. I can't see any negative in their having a bounce-back solid game and helping us get the W. I understand what you're saying, but again, we need them and that they both came in with big games is absolutely a plus in my book.

However, you know I'm in that camp on Lander needing floor time. Interestingly, this was a game where we struggled defensively, and played well offensively. But Lander is being kept off the floor because he's made some glaring young frosh mistakes. OK, and yes this was overall a good game offensively, but continue to believe getting Lander acclimated sooner will spur our offense and that we'll need to spur our offense going forward.

One of the ways to help spur our offense was achieved yesterday -- getting Galloway more involved, again, as he was in the early games. He's not a shooter, but he has demonstrated that he can score well in transition and getting to the rim, and that he can play almost a point-forward role, his positioning in the front court is good, he gets to spots well, and moves the ball well.

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Just now, IowaHoosierFan said:

i don't like what CAM does to some players.  They get minutes in the first half and then nothing in the second.  This is the second game in a row where Lander got some minutes, played ok in my opinion and then disappeared.

Can anyone explain this?

I guess it's just perspective.  Last night was the first time I was able to watch Lander play, and I thought he looked completely overmatched.  He could not stay in front of his man on defense.  So, as you requested previously, Archie put him on the bench.  I'm not dissapointed in Lander, the kid should still be in High School.  Some put some unrealistic expectations on the kid.  

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3 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

i don't like what CAM does to some players.  They get minutes in the first half and then nothing in the second.  This is the second game in a row where Lander got some minutes, played ok in my opinion and then disappeared.

Can anyone explain this?

I did not see him make a mistake but wasn't focusing on him. I'd bet if we see when he was pulled that CAM saw him do something he didn't like. CAM does this with the young players, generally, and it's clear Lander is on a short leash, just as Hunter was last year especially. That leash is too short, imo. 

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6 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

i don't like what CAM does to some players.  They get minutes in the first half and then nothing in the second.  This is the second game in a row where Lander got some minutes, played ok in my opinion and then disappeared.

Can anyone explain this?

Last few games, I would have agreed with you. Yesterday Galloway, Durham, Rob and Armaan were all playing well. Not sure in that particular game you let any of those 4 sit for Lander.

 

As a whole, I would love to see him snag a few minutes every half. I think last night was different tho

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Just now, Muddy River said:

I guess it's just perspective.  Last night was the first time I was able to watch Lander play, and I thought he looked completely overmatched.  He could not stay in front of his man on defense.  So, as you requested previously, Archie put him on the bench.  I'm not dissapointed in Lander, the kid should still be in High School.  Some put some unrealistic expectations on the kid.  

Solid input -- as I just posted I wasn't watching Lander but if you saw that chances are that is what CAM saw.

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1 minute ago, Muddy River said:

I guess it's just perspective.  Last night was the first time I was able to watch Lander play, and I thought he looked completely overmatched.  He could not stay in front of his man on defense.  So, as you requested previously, Archie put him on the bench.  I'm not dissapointed in Lander, the kid should still be in High School.  Some put some unrealistic expectations on the kid.  

i guess i thought he did ok.  I saw worst defensive play by other players.  But i guess they have earned the right to make them.  just interesting to me

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6 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

i don't like what CAM does to some players.  They get minutes in the first half and then nothing in the second.  This is the second game in a row where Lander got some minutes, played ok in my opinion and then disappeared.

Can anyone explain this?

He did pick up 2 fouls in three minutes of action. That’s not exactly good. 

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1 minute ago, bluegrassIU said:

Last few games, I would have agreed with you. Yesterday Galloway, Durham, Rob and Armaan were all playing well. Not sure in that particular game you let any of those 4 sit for Lander.

 

As a whole, I would love to see him snag a few minutes every half. I think last night was different thom

i can agree with this.  Thought maybe he would give someone a breather when we were up 9 or 10 a couple times.  But i guess i see why

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Just now, IowaHoosierFan said:

i guess i thought he did ok.  I saw worst defensive play by other players.  But i guess they have earned the right to make them.  just interesting to me

Lander is overplaying his matchup to the side....is it him or a scouting report?  When he gets beat, the packline isn't there to protect.  Other teams must be iso him.  That is where an adjustment might need to be made.  

In my opinion, he should get at least as many minutes as Franklin last year.  There is no doubt offense is much more fluid with him.  

But, who's minutes is he going to take away?  Al, is the leader on the court.

Trey G needs minutes.  

Many Hoosiers didn't play D well yesterday.

I didn't look at the box yet, but it appeared IU was out rebounded yesterday?  

 

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2 minutes ago, IUskim said:

He did pick up 2 fouls in three minutes of action. That’s not exactly good. 

I really think this is an indication that he hasn't adjusted to the speed of the college game yet.  I'm confident he will get there, but he's not there yet.  I think Hoopster might have a good argument that the leash is too short for younger players, but I'd also say a 2 point win in OT doesn't allow for much room for error.

Lastly, I fear that Jordan and Lander will be negatively affected by the lack of a preseason or cupcake portion of the schedule.  They lost those minutes that are vital to young players.  Hell look at how UK is struggling, because ALL of their players are young (and Lander is a year younger than them).

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3 minutes ago, Muddy River said:

I really think this is an indication that he hasn't adjusted to the speed of the college game yet.  I'm confident he will get there, but he's not there yet.  I think Hoopster might have a good argument that the leash is too short for younger players, but I'd also say a 2 point win in OT doesn't allow for much room for error.

Lastly, I fear that Jordan and Lander will be negatively affected by the lack of a preseason or cupcake portion of the schedule.  They lost those minutes that are vital to young players.  Hell look at how UK is struggling, because ALL of their players are young (and Lander is a year younger than them).

Completely agree and I want him to succeed he’s from my hometown. So I want him to be out there but I don’t want it to be at the detriment of the team I do think he needs maybe a few more minutes. 

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5 minutes ago, Muddy River said:

I really think this is an indication that he hasn't adjusted to the speed of the college game yet.  I'm confident he will get there, but he's not there yet.  I think Hoopster might have a good argument that the leash is too short for younger players, but I'd also say a 2 point win in OT doesn't allow for much room for error.

Lastly, I fear that Jordan and Lander will be negatively affected by the lack of a preseason or cupcake portion of the schedule.  They lost those minutes that are vital to young players.  Hell look at how UK is struggling, because ALL of their players are young (and Lander is a year younger than them).

UK is completely different than us.  

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Did a little research on Trey stats, season to date. Even with his limited minutes (getting more every game is good) he is 2nd on the team in Assists, 3rd in steals.

Shoots 51% from the field (including 28% from 3). 87% Free throws.

And then there is his hustle.

No wonder most of us like him.

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3 minutes ago, DWB said:

Did a little research on Trey stats, season to date. Even with his limited minutes (getting more every game is good) he is 2nd on the team in Assists, 3rd in steals.

Shoots 51% from the field (including 28% from 3). 87% Free throws.

And then there is his hustle.

No wonder most of us like him.

We need about 4 more Galloways.

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Another thought...Armaan had 4 TOs, BUT he was trying to make plays when we needed plays...His going to the hoop kept us even when Penn State was making their run...

I understand the smart thing to do is go to Trayce, but I think Armaan needs to try to be making plays like he did last night during crunch time...

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35 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

This isn't aimed at you BG, just the topic that irks me,  but god i get tired of the CAM can't shoot the ball for them, CAM can't run the plays for them, and on and and on. 

Yes, that is true.  But he is the coach.  He has to teach them to shoot the ball better.  He has to teach them to run plays better.   He has to implement an offense that highlights the strengths of his players.  And if they do not do what they are asked to do, and this isn't an isolated occurrence, its years of the same thing.  Then he needs to put his foot in someone back side and put them on the pine.  But its the same thing.  They shoot poorly, CAM can't shoot for them.  They have 19 TO's, CAM can't make passes for them.  We dribble at the top of the key for 20 seconds, CAM can't run the offense for them. 

Coach is ultimately responsible for what his team does on the floor.  No he can not shoot for them.  But he can hire a shooting coach.  He can focus more on shooting in practices and off season (maybe he already does).  He can recruit true shooters and get them.  He can hire an offensive minded assistant who can help with a better offense or how to utilize our players better.  He can put butts on the bench for not hustling, Lazy passes, not getting back on defense and not knowing where to be on offense.  Taking a loss to me but seeing the coach, actively coach while in a game is important to me.  Watching the same sh!t show every single time and seeing nothing change makes it hard on me. 

The only reason we won this game is because their defense was focused on stopping TJD and they let Rob and Al set their feet for 13 second before shooting.  And if you do that, those guys will kill you.  They took away TJD for the most part and dared us to beat them from the parameter and we did it, although barely.  That end of regulation no call on Rob was very close and could have gone either way, and I am happy it went out way for once.

I am not advocating that everyone needs be in the fire CAM boat or anything.  If you love CAM and think he is the next coming of Jesus, great for you for having that outlook.  I just want people to stop giving him a pass on 4 years of some of the same exact issues.  At some point, its not about the players, its about the coach, the scheme, recruiting, and the staff.  At some point you have to ask why?  And the answer sometimes should be Archie Miller.  

You want in a lot of different directions there, so my reply is going to be more general as opposed to specific to what you said, and I also realize you weren't necessarily addressing me specifically. 

I share many of the same concerns as many others about Archie. I personally feel he is a great fit for IU, I like his temperament, I like many things about his approach to coaching and recruiting (not all, but many), and if you were making a list he would check a lot of the boxes that IU fans want in a coach. I was/am really hopeful it works out because I think he's a great fit for IU.

With that said, something has absolutely been off for 4 years. There just always seems to be something missing. I don't think we can always even out our finger on it, there is just something missing from this program. I agree with others that you can definitely see the improvement year to year when looking at offensive and defensive numbers, I can see the culture developing this year and I like our sophomores and freshmen, but for some reason the wins haven't come with it, and that is frustrating. Again, there is just something missing, even with the incremental improvement. It's very frustrating to be a middle-of-the-pack to bottom Big Ten team for the 4th year in a row and that is getting unacceptable. The Leap has to happen and soon.

With all of that said, a lot of my defense of Archie isn't because I think he's the "second coming" of coaches. It's because of the nonsensical crap that gets posted. That game thread last night was asinine. We have posters screaming possession-by-possession even when good things happen. We could run a great play and score and the post will be "well Archie still sucks, he just got lucky that Durham hit the open shot". 

We have posters for two hours screaming about offense in a game where we scored 80 points in regulation and 87 overall while shooting 57% from the field and crushed the other team in points in the paint and turned it over just 13 times. The offense was fantastic last night. We carved up their zone, got basically any shot we wanted, and people are still losing their minds about offense. 

We're complaining about a set that got our AA player the ball in the middle of the paint right in front of the rim. At some point players play and coaches coach. Archie can't jump inside TJD's head and force him to make the right play there, and who knows, maybe TJD's thought process was that he would go up and get fouled and potentially get an and 1. The bottom line is the play was perfectly fine, the players didn't execute. 

I also push back because of some of your posts yesterday. I don't mean to call you out, and I realize the defense was not good last night, but you're posting all yesterday about how bad IU's 3pt defense is, yet coming into last night IU led the Big Ten in 3pt% defense and on the year we were giving up under 30% as a team. So why are we complaining about that?

I could go on and on, and again I'm very concerned so don't get me wrong. I share a lot of your concerns. How have we gone 4 years without a point guard? 4 years without recruiting a high level point guard by a coach that played point guard? 4 years without a big that can make a perimeter shot? I actually have most of my concerns about Archie with his recruiting.  

How do we still not have a high level, killer perimeter scorer (though I'd say Franklin is becoming that). How do we still struggle with playing with intensity and passion?

So yes, I share many of the same concerns. I like some of what I'm seeing this year and I really like our sophomores and freshmen and would like to see Archie have a chance with Lander, Galloway, Franklin, etc., but at some point he has to win, he just has to. 

 

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18 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Another thought...Armaan had 4 TOs, BUT he was trying to make plays when we needed plays...His going to the hoop kept us even when Penn State was making their run...

I understand the smart thing to do is go to Trayce, but I think Armaan needs to try to be making plays like he did last night during crunch time...

If we’re going to put the ball in his hands and expect him to make a play we’ll need to live with the TO’s as long as they don’t trend towards carelessness. 

Don’t think I’ve seen this yet, but Armaan had the assist of the night (other than that Gallaway wrap around): at the end of the game when he split the double team to get TJD the ball in the post. Such a crucial decision in crunch time when he could have easily passed it back around the perimeter. 

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36 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

On RP and Al, they are our senior, experienced guards, we need them. I can't see any negative in their having a bounce-back solid game and helping us get the W. I understand what you're saying, but again, we need them and that they both came in with big games is absolutely a plus in my book.

However, you know I'm in that camp on Lander needing floor time. Interestingly, this was a game where we struggled defensively, and played well offensively. But Lander is being kept off the floor because he's made some glaring young frosh mistakes. OK, and yes this was overall a good game offensively, but continue to believe getting Lander acclimated sooner will spur our offense and that we'll need to spur our offense going forward.

One of the ways to help spur our offense was achieved yesterday -- getting Galloway more involved, again, as he was in the early games. He's not a shooter, but he has demonstrated that he can score well in transition and getting to the rim, and that he can play almost a point-forward role, his positioning in the front court is good, he gets to spots well, and moves the ball well.

I think you kind of answered your own question regarding Lander, when you mentioned Galloway. Galloway, right now, is DOING the things we all hope Lander will be able to do in the future. Not a knock on Lander, at all. 

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44 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

i don't like what CAM does to some players.  They get minutes in the first half and then nothing in the second.  This is the second game in a row where Lander got some minutes, played ok in my opinion and then disappeared.

Can anyone explain this?

I agree that Lander should get more minutes, but he made 2 dumb fouls in short order. He sticks his arm out and taps guys as they go around him. He gains nothing from it, on at least one of those calls in conference play, he didn't even touch the other guy, but it's just a terrible thing to do and he has to stop. I can see benching him until he does. 

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