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Waited until today to post. I dont complain about Ref's to much because calls tend to go both ways most of the time. I have to give it to Archie because i would have been tossed 10 times from this game. The block out foul on Leal in an important part of the game was the worst call i have ever seen in basketball in the 50 years i've watched it.

We had to many empty trips in the game in 2 spots that cost us the game. When we went up 6, we could have pushed that to 12 had we kept getting TJD a touch. Rob and Al figured they would turn it over or throw up a 3. First o.t. Leal hit a 3 with the first shot then everyone wanted to be the hero and started chucking 3's of their own. Archie just sat there watching, i think 5 empty trips before he ran a set for TJD. The D in that stretch saved us.

What and the hell was the play call at the end of o.t.? you have 7 seconds so you ran a play to swing the ball all the way to the other side of the court to set 1 screen for Al to do whatever he was going to do. B.S., you get the ball in bound on the same side of the court and you wait for TJD, your best player to get open on the block and you let him go to work. You live or die with the best player not a guard who will dribble's off his foot 8 times a game. Just crap coaching i'm sick of watching. It's like Archie was saying everyone in the building knows TJD is getting the ball so lets fake them out by not , bullcrap. This job is to big to be learning on the fly. Ask Mike Davis.

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20 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

I think overall the fan base was expecting us to be a well oiled machine year 4 because Crean’s team year 4 was very good and exceeded expectations. For me I’m overall pretty happy with the direction we’re headed even though it’s hard to be patient and sit as a middle of the road big ten team for now. I think the path we’re on is one where we will be more happy with the consistency instead of Crean’s teams where we would win the big ten one year and then miss the tournament the next. I don’t think Archie’s teams will ever be that inconsistent. 

He has been consistent for sure, missing every year.

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10 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Waited until today to post. I dont complain about Ref's to much because calls tend to go both ways most of the time. I have to give it to Archie because i would have been tossed 10 times from this game. The block out foul on Leal in an important part of the game was the worst call i have ever seen in basketball in the 50 years i've watched it.

We had to many empty trips in the game in 2 spots that cost us the game. When we went up 6, we could have pushed that to 12 had we kept getting TJD a touch. Rob and Al figured they would turn it over or throw up a 3. First o.t. Leal hit a 3 with the first shot then everyone wanted to be the hero and started chucking 3's of their own. Archie just sat there watching, i think 5 empty trips before he ran a set for TJD. The D in that stretch saved us.

What and the hell was the play call at the end of o.t.? you have 7 seconds so you ran a play to swing the ball all the way to the other side of the court to set 1 screen for Al to do whatever he was going to do. B.S., you get the ball in bound on the same side of the court and you wait for TJD, your best player to get open on the block and you let him go to work. You live or die with the best player not a guard who will dribble's off his foot 8 times a game. Just crap coaching i'm sick of watching. It's like Archie was saying everyone in the building knows TJD is getting the ball so lets fake them out by not , bullcrap. This job is to big to be learning on the fly. Ask Mike Davis.

To your point about the play call at the end of OT. I would tend to agree I would have preferred to see TJD get it in the post to work, but from Al’s own admission in the post game press conference they didn’t actually execute the play that was drawn up, which seemed pretty clear at the time. If I am remembering correctly Rob seemed to run right over next to Al allowing his defender to grab the ball. You can be annoyed at Archie for not drawing something up for TJD, but ultimately we never got to see what was actually supposed to happen since the guys didn’t execute it properly.

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39 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I whole heartedly agree but I also wonder with Trey, Anthony and even Geronimo playing off the ball: do they have an easier opportunity to step back and let the game come to them vs. Lander who's supposed to be handling the ball? I don't want to call it disappearing into the offense, but keeping space and swinging the ball around is much easier than bringing the ball up the court and initiating the offense. He clearly is trying to do too much but it's harder to get him those off the ball minutes than other Freshmen. 

Not trying to take stance on whether Lander should be getting more or less minutes, or making excuses.....just recognizing that it must be challenging for Arch to find him those minutes. 

One thing I will say after last night, those minutes don't need to come with 2 other freshmen on the floor. Maybe the thinking behind that decision is KL plays better with those guys in practice? Whatever it was, it sure didn't work out in that scenario. 

I'll say for a kid like Lander...we really missed those extra preseason games where he could get valuable playing time while we were up 20+. This year we had 1 easy game vs North Alabama and he scored 10, 4 rebounds, 3 assists...

Missing out on the extra run stunted some of the growth. Hard to find moments in our schedule. Hopefully we can come out and beat Nebraska up good so he can get extra minutes there. Otherwise he's just going to have learn on the fly all season.

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26 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

I think overall the fan base was expecting us to be a well oiled machine year 4 because Crean’s team year 4 was very good and exceeded expectations. For me I’m overall pretty happy with the direction we’re headed even though it’s hard to be patient and sit as a middle of the road big ten team for now. I think the path we’re on is one where we will be more happy with the consistency instead of Crean’s teams where we would win the big ten one year and then miss the tournament the next. I don’t think Archie’s teams will ever be that inconsistent. 

Agree and think this is a good point that goes to the foundation that CAM is building. Crean didn't really build foundations.

He recruited, very well early on, that built strong offensive teams, teams that could really light it up, but built on several guys who would declare early/go pro, and without building the depth of talent around them for the future. So it was win big, disappear, come back to try to win big again, and then disappear into mediocrity, and with that came a real falloff in recruiting.

CAM's recruiting, so far, has I think clearly been laying a foundation of talented, hard working and high BB IQ players, who are not projected to declare early, along with legitimate potential future pros/Mr. Basketballs/five-star talents. That is the best way to build a steady, long-term program, for consistent strength in conference along with tourney runs.

No, we're not there yet, but we do seem to be very much on that path. This team is good on both sides of the ball. It's continuing to get better. The frosh are proving themselves. The key will be in continuing to land elite prospects mixed in with the depth. We're going to lose TJD, whether that's after this year or the next. Everyone sees that, it's not some kind of newsflash -- and people can say he has missed, so far, on the last recruiting class, but the depth is clearly here, right now, and there's plenty of reason to think his recruiting will continue to land elite guys to go along with the solid core. That is the path.

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4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I'll say for a kid like Lander...we really missed those extra preseason games where he could get valuable playing time while we were up 20+. This year we had 1 easy game vs North Alabama and he scored 10, 4 rebounds, 3 assists...

Missing out on the extra run stunted some of the growth. Hard to find moments in our schedule. Hopefully we can come out and beat Nebraska up good so he can get extra minutes there. Otherwise he's just going to have learn on the fly all season.

Agree and have been banging this drum for a while now, lol. When I banged the Hunter drum I caught flack (which struck me as odd). Now look at him, his ability to score is clear. Lander is exceptionally talented. Yes, he hasn't looked ready, but when you play a guy 2 minutes then 3 minutes, etc., that's how he's going to look Instead of simply defending CAM (who I obviously believe in), it's worth it to think about what the kid could be doing if getting more in-game experience, as he would be in most other programs. The good thing here, imo, is that CAM is pretty clearly trying to get him in now. It's going to be a work in progress.

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15 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Waited until today to post. I dont complain about Ref's to much because calls tend to go both ways most of the time. I have to give it to Archie because i would have been tossed 10 times from this game. The block out foul on Leal in an important part of the game was the worst call i have ever seen in basketball in the 50 years i've watched it.

We had to many empty trips in the game in 2 spots that cost us the game. When we went up 6, we could have pushed that to 12 had we kept getting TJD a touch. Rob and Al figured they would turn it over or throw up a 3. First o.t. Leal hit a 3 with the first shot then everyone wanted to be the hero and started chucking 3's of their own. Archie just sat there watching, i think 5 empty trips before he ran a set for TJD. The D in that stretch saved us.

What and the hell was the play call at the end of o.t.? you have 7 seconds so you ran a play to swing the ball all the way to the other side of the court to set 1 screen for Al to do whatever he was going to do. B.S., you get the ball in bound on the same side of the court and you wait for TJD, your best player to get open on the block and you let him go to work. You live or die with the best player not a guard who will dribble's off his foot 8 times a game. Just crap coaching i'm sick of watching. It's like Archie was saying everyone in the building knows TJD is getting the ball so lets fake them out by not , bullcrap. This job is to big to be learning on the fly. Ask Mike Davis.

So I take it you're not an Archie Miller fan...

Where do you think that team got the toughness to compete in one of the toughest arenas in the B1G, shorthanded, and with officiating that was less than stellar? Who recruited these kids with the "win first" attitude?

I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can lay this loss at Archie Miller's feet. Myself and others have said, once Archie gets his leadership situation sorted out, the team would improve, and I think it has...Do you remember what happened in Madison last year? We got blown out...were never in the game...And if last night didn't convince you that this team and this program are on the upswing, then I don't know what to say...

Archie can damn sure call the plays, but he can't execute them...

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1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Agree and have been banging this drum for a while now, lol. When I banged the Hunter drum I caught flack (which struck me as odd). Now look at him, his ability to score is clear. Lander is exceptionally talented. Yes, he hasn't looked ready, but when you play a guy 2 minutes then 3 minutes, etc., that's how he's going to look Instead of simply defending CAM (who I obviously believe in), it's worth it to think about what the kid could be doing if getting more in-game experience, as he would be in most other programs. The good thing here, imo, is that CAM is pretty clearly trying to get him in now. It's going to be a work in progress.

I'm paraphrasing here but Gard made a comment last night about Wahl who is a sophomore. Gard says when a kid is so young you have to get him to understand when the minutes will come,etc....

I guess when your starting 5 is 23-24 year olds a true soph is extremely young. Just thought it was funny considering how much we absolutely count on our fresh/soph,etc...

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1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

So I take it you're not an Archie Miller fan...

Where do you think that team got the toughness to compete in one of the toughest arenas in the B1G, shorthanded, and with officiating that was less than stellar? Who recruited these kids with the "win first" attitude?

I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can lay this loss at Archie Miller's feet. Myself and others have said, once Archie gets his leadership situation sorted out, the team would improve, and I think it has...Do you remember what happened in Madison last year? We got blown out...were never in the game...And if last night didn't convince you that this team and this program are on the upswing, then I don't know what to say...

Archie can damn sure call the plays, but he can't execute them...

I cant like this post more than once, and that's unfortunate. I was waiting for the naysayers to come out in this thread. Surprised it lasted til page 7

 

It's unfortunate everywhere you go whether it be here or IG or twitter, and people are yelling from the rooftops to fire CAM.

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1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

I'm paraphrasing here but Gard made a comment last night about Wahl who is a sophomore. Gard says when a kid is so young you have to get him to understand when the minutes will come,etc....

I guess when your starting 5 is 23-24 year olds a true soph is extremely young. Just thought it was funny considering how much we absolutely count on our fresh/soph,etc...

Kinda makes you wonder what will happen to Wisky next year...In normal times, the cupboard would be next to bare in Madison next season...But, I don't think Potter or Davison have a real NBA future...Trice maybe, and possibly Reuvers and Ford...Davis and Wahl seem like nice players, but they're not going to make up much if there's a mass exodus...

I about half expect for them ALL to come back and put hours toward their 3rd useless PHD, while playing against 18-22 years olds again...

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Just now, ledies22 said:

I cant like this post more than once, and that's unfortunate. I was waiting for the naysayers to come out in this thread. Surprised it lasted til page 7

 

It's unfortunate everywhere you go whether it be here or IG or twitter, and people are yelling from the rooftops to fire CAM.

...and that's just stupid.  Anyone calling for a coaching change now simply doesn't understand the game.

Progression in the metrics every year,  but the argument is that it's not fast enough? Just laughably stupid.  Let's at least have enough patience to see where this progression takes IU. When it stalls and/or goes backwards, then you can reasonably ask the question about retaining him.

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Hate the L but really enjoyed watching this team play last night.  Loved the grit and perseverance.

CAM is slowly working the Frosh in and they seem to be acclimating to D! play slowly.  AF injury is simply going to hasten that development by getting them more PT.  

Jerome is the player currently that really seems to be benefitting and hope he continues in that vain.  Looks more involved and honestly more athletic than prior.  Love the confidence and attitude he's bringing to the team now.

I don't care which yr of CAM's contract we are in.  He continues to rebuild IUBB.  I love the character of the young men we have playing for us and they are slowly taking on that "Archie" mentality.  He is building the program In such a manner that it will sustain itself.

I for one am pleased and proud of CAM, the players, and the trajectory of the program just as CBK said we would be if we were patient. 

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13 hours ago, Hoosier Daddy 4 said:

I know this was an ideal matchup for Leal to play but why has he not played more this season. 

I was actually wondering the same I had to watch the game on a slight delay after I got the kids asleep ....didn’t get to watch any postgame coverage ...did anyone ask or did Archie address what happened during practice or what about this matchup caused leal to basically flip into galloways minutes role ?  Not complaining about it ( although I’m a big Galloway fan ) but I’m curious 

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18 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

So I take it you're not an Archie Miller fan...

Where do you think that team got the toughness to compete in one of the toughest arenas in the B1G, shorthanded, and with officiating that was less than stellar? Who recruited these kids with the "win first" attitude?

I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can lay this loss at Archie Miller's feet. Myself and others have said, once Archie gets his leadership situation sorted out, the team would improve, and I think it has...Do you remember what happened in Madison last year? We got blown out...were never in the game...And if last night didn't convince you that this team and this program are on the upswing, then I don't know what to say...

Archie can damn sure call the plays, but he can't execute them...

Getting blown out at home to Northwestern tells me other wise. Archie can damn sure call the plays, but he can't execute them...isn't it his job to get players to execute? you and I can draw up a play. Archie better hire an assistant that can teach offense because he doesnt have one now. A blow out or a 2ot loss is still a loss. They had to find ways to lose last night and they did.

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47 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Waited until today to post. I dont complain about Ref's to much because calls tend to go both ways most of the time. I have to give it to Archie because i would have been tossed 10 times from this game. The block out foul on Leal in an important part of the game was the worst call i have ever seen in basketball in the 50 years i've watched it.

We had to many empty trips in the game in 2 spots that cost us the game. When we went up 6, we could have pushed that to 12 had we kept getting TJD a touch. Rob and Al figured they would turn it over or throw up a 3. First o.t. Leal hit a 3 with the first shot then everyone wanted to be the hero and started chucking 3's of their own. Archie just sat there watching, i think 5 empty trips before he ran a set for TJD. The D in that stretch saved us.

What and the hell was the play call at the end of o.t.? you have 7 seconds so you ran a play to swing the ball all the way to the other side of the court to set 1 screen for Al to do whatever he was going to do. B.S., you get the ball in bound on the same side of the court and you wait for TJD, your best player to get open on the block and you let him go to work. You live or die with the best player not a guard who will dribble's off his foot 8 times a game. Just crap coaching i'm sick of watching. It's like Archie was saying everyone in the building knows TJD is getting the ball so lets fake them out by not , bullcrap. This job is to big to be learning on the fly. Ask Mike Davis.

I couldn’t agree with or like this post any more .....youre spot on and I think it’s part of why tjd looks pissed off at life in general other than after he makes a spectacular play 

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1 minute ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said:

I was actually wondering the same I had to watch the game on a slight delay after I got the kids asleep ....didn’t get to watch any postgame coverage ...did anyone ask or did Archie address what happened during practice or what about this matchup caused leal to basically flip into galloways minutes role ?  Not complaining about it ( although I’m a big Galloway fan ) but I’m curious 

Archie has shown willingness to ride with guys who are playing well. I’m sure Leal demonstrated growth and earned more trust in practice and when he got an opportunity yesterday he really stepped up. If Armaan was healthy I think Leal would’ve been on the bench the last 12 minutes of the game but he showed he can be trusted on the court and hopefully earned more minutes going forward. 

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Just now, Indykev said:

Getting blown out at home to Northwestern tells me other wise. Archie can damn sure call the plays, but he can't execute them...isn't it his job to get players to execute? you and I can draw up a play. Archie better hire an assistant that can teach offense because he doesnt have one now. A blow out or a 2ot loss is still a loss. They had to find ways to lose last night and they did.

I think this is at least in small part NOT just a coaching issue ( yes that’s the biggest part ) another  other issue is we emphasize athlete over basketball players in our back court recruiting and have for years 

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Just now, Hippopotamo said:

Archie has shown willingness to ride with guys who are playing well. I’m sure Leal demonstrated growth and earned more trust in practice and when he got an opportunity yesterday he really stepped up. If Armaan was healthy I think Leal would’ve been on the bench the last 12 minutes of the game but he showed he can be trusted on the court and hopefully earned more minutes going forward. 

Makes sense ...didn’t know if Galloway had done something to take a step back or if it was discussed 

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19 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

...and that's just stupid.  Anyone calling for a coaching change now simply doesn't understand the game.

Progression in the metrics every year,  but the argument is that it's not fast enough? Just laughably stupid.  Let's at least have enough patience to see where this progression takes IU. When it stalls and/or goes backwards, then you can reasonably ask the question about retaining him.

I’m a patience preacher too and agree with most everything you say ....my concern from the coaching perspective comes two fold :1. We have dominated “ in - state “ Recruiting ( by rankings at least ) up till this 2021 class for next season and haven’t put together a major win jump 2. Our backcourt has been BETTER this year but over the time arch has been at the reigns we are still shooting poorly , still not taking care of the ball or sharing it at a high level, and still at time struggle with fundamentals that bog down our offense.   If you look at individual facets I would have expected to see a little more shift or change to this point 

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7 minutes ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said:

Makes sense ...didn’t know if Galloway had done something to take a step back or if it was discussed 

Galloway didn’t have his best game yesterday, and I think Archie wanted to emphasize spacing the floor a bit more. I think yesterday is more a testament to how well Leal was playing versus Galloway being not as good. They’re both major pieces for us IMO 

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13 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

We were hosed. Fact not opinion.  

 

13 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

I might chime in later with some of the stuff that happens at Madison. Otherwise....very proud of this team. Awesome game. Had our chances in regulation and overtime. Just didn't workout. This one stings for sure but if I see that level of play vs top 10 teams....we're good. 

Bob hope you’re well ! Haven’t gotten to speak to ya much ......I think you’re both right , some calls could have benefitted us but to me this was the opposite of the penn state game where we might have gotten away with contact or calls a couple times at the end at home and it helped us ....regardless I’ve been hard on Archie and our backcourt and I think they played a part in us missing several chances to win the game but those things considered  this was the most fun game to watch for me all year the guys looked energetic and fought hard in a tough place to win .....I would obviously prefer to win but if we are that competitive in our losses that’s IU basketball I remember 

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Just now, tdhoosier said:

Lunardi knows all. He was a Prophet in his past life. 😁

He was wrong once in the last 3 years. maybe he was wrong twice, we will never know. People can say we made it, but facts are no one did because the ncaa refused to put out a bracket. We could ask Archie if he got his bonus for making it last year. i'm guessing he didn't.

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