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3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

No one is trying to "win" anything. I asked a question to the forum a ("a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged") to a complex question, and you gave an overly simplistic answer..."opportunity."

Dismissing work ethic, practice, mental attitude, and confidence. 

Anthony Leal is the very embodiment of those traits. Why do you think he even got the opportunity? Because he's shown them something in practice. It carried over to the game. The kid shoots 500 3 point shots a day. Saying his rise on the depth chart and his performance in that game is simply due to opportunity is incredibly dismissive of the hard work, both physically and mentally, he put in to get there...

Same with Jerome Hunter...

Nope. You just ignored basically my entire post. Ok right, first you said his minutes have not appreciably increased, then you said he played 26 only because of OT, again ignoring the point I was making and ignoring that he played 16 in OT ag PSU, then 19, then 26 in the key minutes against MD which, of course, is opportunity, but then you want to come back with some bizarre definitional approach to the word opportunity, and now you try to recast your argument again to claim, ridiculously, that I’m ignoring hard work, when of course in the post you just quoted but again ignore I just complimented Leal on his work to bring his D way up. Dude, this is obtuse. This gets so old, I think I’m done having “conversations” with you, this is flat out absurd.

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2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Nope. You just ignored basically my entire post. Ok right, first you said his minutes have not appreciably increased, then you said he played 26 only because of OT, again ignoring the point I was making and ignoring that he played 16 in OT ag PSU, then 19, then 26 in the key minutes against MD which, of course, is opportunity, but then you want to come back with some bizarre definitional approach to the word opportunity, and now you try to recast your argument again to claim, ridiculously, that I’m ignoring hard work, when of course in the post you just quoted but again ignore I just complimented Leal on his work to bring his D way up. Dude, this is obtuse. This gets so old, I think I’m done having “conversations” with you, this is flat out absurd.

He played 16 minutes in regulation play against Wisconsin. Archie Miller has no way of knowing the game was going to OT. He is averaging 17 minutes per game...

Here are the numbers...

Screenshot_20210109-130755.thumb.png.c43b106da4fbd7642bba7a50b23a80ff.png

So SHOW me where the minutes (i.e. opportunities) have increased. Those are facts, not some made up, contrived BS. His shot numbers have remained steady too...

 

My original question was, "why the turnaround?" citing the last 3 games...there is no appreciable difference in floor time. If you didn't see the difference in Jerome's demeanor on the floor, that's not my fault.

And I didn't "recast" anything...you said, "one word: opportunity." "Ridiculously" dismissing any other factor.

Talk about obtuse...

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53 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think so too...

I'd be interested in your thoughts, beyond what you already posted on "why?"

Personally, I think it has to do with leadership by the players, especially the upperclassmen and TJD.

In Archie's first couple of years, I think the culture was one of jealousy and being dismissive of younger players talents.

I think you are right about jealousy (the three players that played for us last year that are no longer here definitely did not seem to embrace Romeo and then TJD). I also think that it's also true to say that Archie only inherited two self starting workers, Juwan Morgan and Robert Johnson. Colin Hartman would count as well, but his body had given up on him by then. I think in both of their cases they were exhausted and fairly reluctant leaders. I would say that Juwan Morgan did not completely buy in to the changes in system. He is a great guy and a hard worker, but there was always some subtext in the way that he talked about CAM and the transition.

As an outsider I think that what we saw with Robert Johnson and Juwan Morgan is similar to what we saw with Sheehey, just a kinder gentler version. They had seen success and then seen all of their friends leave for the NBA and they struggled to embrace a role as transitioning to the next era (modern day Kent Benson?). They were looking backwards to the good old days rather than thinking about what needed to happen here and now...at least that was my interpretation of it.

I think you can contrast this to what Holtmann was allowed to do at OSU. He got on campus and showed Lyle and Funderburke the door and then also inherited a Big Ten Player of the year guy in Keita Bates-Diop. Holtmann was given flexibility to bring in transfers and to suggest transfers and bring in recruits that had committed to him at Butler and was left with a group that was fully committed to him and his system. 

 

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5 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Now here's a reasoned response. And probably has some truth to it.

But you've disregarded the Penn St and Maryland games, where Jerome showed the same tenacious demeanor. Both of those teams had numerous kids that are long and athletic...

But, as I said above, we'll see...I hope Jerome continues on his upward trajectory...that can only mean good things for IU.

They do?? Neither penn st or Maryland have anyone that played major minutes over 6’8/6’9 and they guarded Trayce.

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2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

They do?? Neither penn st or Maryland have anyone that played major minutes over 6’8/6’9 and they guarded Trayce.

Marylands roster...yes, they are long and athletic...

Screenshot_20210109-133951.thumb.png.05e534996fe54eaa3656b75f4ac169a3.png

Penn State's roster...not as long, but some pretty athletic kids (Jones, Brockington, Dread, and Lundy 

Screenshot_20210109-134133.thumb.png.e4bc6dfcfd78d828befd9f2a520e1e00.png

 

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38 minutes ago, mchenry34 said:

I think you are right about jealousy (the three players that played for us last year that are no longer here definitely did not seem to embrace Romeo and then TJD). I also think that it's also true to say that Archie only inherited two self starting workers, Juwan Morgan and Robert Johnson. Colin Hartman would count as well, but his body had given up on him by then. I think in both of their cases they were exhausted and fairly reluctant leaders. I would say that Juwan Morgan did not completely buy in to the changes in system. He is a great guy and a hard worker, but there was always some subtext in the way that he talked about CAM and the transition.

As an outsider I think that what we saw with Robert Johnson and Juwan Morgan is similar to what we saw with Sheehey, just a kinder gentler version. They had seen success and then seen all of their friends leave for the NBA and they struggled to embrace a role as transitioning to the next era (modern day Kent Benson?). They were looking backwards to the good old days rather than thinking about what needed to happen here and now...at least that was my interpretation of it.

I think you can contrast this to what Holtmann was allowed to do at OSU. He got on campus and showed Lyle and Funderburke the door and then also inherited a Big Ten Player of the year guy in Keita Bates-Diop. Holtmann was given flexibility to bring in transfers and to suggest transfers and bring in recruits that had committed to him at Butler and was left with a group that was fully committed to him and his system. 

 

Really good post and some great points. 

On the Holtmann part, he also inherited Jea'Sean Tate, Kam Williams and both Wesson brothers. 

If Kaleb Wesson doesn't fall into Holtmann's lap (he was going to OSU no matter who the coach was because his brother was already there) then his last 3 years look a lot different. 

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1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Marylands roster...yes, they are long and athletic...

Screenshot_20210109-133951.thumb.png.05e534996fe54eaa3656b75f4ac169a3.png

Penn State's roster...not as long, but some pretty athletic kids (Jones, Brockington, Dread, and Lundy 

Screenshot_20210109-134133.thumb.png.e4bc6dfcfd78d828befd9f2a520e1e00.png

 

I’m saying their size wouldn’t give him problems defending and rebounding and bullying him around. I’d say let’s be honest..we played two of the three least talented teams in the B1G and probably the most in athletic team in Wisconsin. I agree he has played better and seems like is more engaged at the defensive end when he sees better minutes but I’m not going to be fooled into thinking Jeromes defense is above par. That’s just me though. I could be wrong.

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2 hours ago, dgambill said:

I’m saying their size wouldn’t give him problems defending and rebounding and bullying him around. I’d say let’s be honest..we played two of the three least talented teams in the B1G and probably the most in athletic team in Wisconsin. I agree he has played better and seems like is more engaged at the defensive end when he sees better minutes but I’m not going to be fooled into thinking Jeromes defense is above par. That’s just me though. I could be wrong.

He seemed to have problems with the bulkier inside kids vs Butler than kids who are built like he is...but I saw some defensive fight the last 3 games, so maybe...

From what I've seen on offense, I think he's more effective playing the 4 with TJD or Race at the 5...

Either way, whatever got into him is coming up roses for IU...

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27 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

He seemed to have problems with the bulkier inside kids vs Butler than kids who are built like he is...but I saw some defensive fight the last 3 games, so maybe...

From what I've seen on offense, I think he's more effective playing the 4 with TJD or Race at the 5...

Either way, whatever got into him is coming up roses for IU...

Yes he spaces the floor well with Trayce. His game is definitely improving. I’m really hoping he has a good game tomorrow and that really sparks him the rest of the year. You want to see a kid just keep building and not take a step back. 

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