Post Game (Mortem) Thread

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, Lizard said:

With all due respect.  The idea of drug use on the IU basketball team did not begin nor end with Sampson.  Or skipping class.  And worse grade situations were managed.  Many have mentioned that IUs compliance department is different than at every other supposedly big time program.  We blew up our own program!  Dumb move.  I appreciate you may disagree on principle.  You wont' change my mind.  And I"m not advocating for not "dolng it right"  I'm saying the negatives from Sampson were overblown on purpose and we blew up our program on spite.  Believe what you will.  We live with the absurd reality, nonetheless.  Peace brother!  

I guess so just have different expectations for IU when it comes to what kind of kids we want at IU

[Lizard]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I guess so just have different expectations for IU when it comes to what kind of kids we want at IU

Not necessarily.  Unless we know the kids firsthand, I'm saying they aren't all that different.  Just presented differently.  We are not the moral superior of college basketball and never were.  Why we chose to claim that while blowing up our own program mystifies me. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I guess so just have different expectations for IU when it comes to what kind of kids we want at IU

You think the kids at the school now don’t do that already? It could have been straightened out without burning down program.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

You think the kids at the school now don’t do that already? It could have been straightened out without burning down program.

Just disagree about keeping Sampson

[Hoosierhoopster]

30 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Armaan wanted to win the damn game.  I think Leal did as well.  Not sure anyone else did.  I'll give AF a pass for being a little rusty.  

Again it’s not about AF, I’ll give him a big pass, it’s about running sets for outside shooting and emphasizing the shooting. We couldn’t score, again 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Lizard said:

Not necessarily.  Unless we know the kids firsthand, I'm saying they aren't all that different.  Just presented differently.  We are not the moral superior of college basketball and never were.  Why we chose to claim that while blowing up our own program mystifies me. 

Well said. We are Indiana basketball because we won 5 national championships and are one of the most winning programs in all of basketball...not because our kids are all pure as the driven snow and never got in trouble before. You can’t visit a university in this country that doesn’t have alcohol and drug issues from time to time. Fix it and focus on what is important. Anyways burnt bridge...question is where we go from here.

[Lizard]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Just disagree about keeping Sampson

We didn't have to keep Sampson.  We could have finished the season and then made moves.  We chose the dramatics and look like idiots in retrospect.  We'll keep watching and this really doesn't matter now, does it?  Watching us get spanked by Purdue again just brought it out.  I'll be rooting for the guys next time out and always.  Appreciate the connections this board offers.  

[Danomatic]

If I could visualize myself watching a basketball game these days... and yes, it’s causing me to age!

[mrflynn03]

Purdue hit almost 70% from the 3 point line. This has been consistent for all of Archie's tenure.  That is a ridiculous percentage.  Is it his defenses fault?  Seriously, what is it with shitass teams like ISU and well all of them draining threes like this? Its insane.  It defies reality.  This has been the most unusual 4 years of IU basketball I have experienced.  

[FW_Hoosier]

2 hours ago, PhinithreeMagic said:

Going on vacation to Jackson Hole on Sunday. Looking forward to not giving a single **** about any games for the next week.

 

Jackson Hole is amazing, was just there in August.  Hope you can see the grizzly bears before they go into hibernation.  Spectacular.

[FW_Hoosier]

1 hour ago, IUfan93 said:

It’s a real disappointment these days being a Bears and IUBB fan. 

Completely miserable.  We had Tom Crean and Jay Cutler... two talented guys that could never put it all together, and I wanted them gone more than anything by the end.

Then in 2017 we replaced them with Archie Miller and Mitch Trubisky... And they’ve both been so bad it’s impossible to even care anymore.

[addictedtoIU]

2 hours ago, Sea Turtle said:

Indiana is going to have to do what Alabama did in football and get their Nick Saban. That program was just as dead as Indiana basketball is now.

You go big game hunting.

You don't come home empty handed.

You pay whatever it takes.

You give him total control of the program within the rules.

You don't give a damn about outside criticism.

That's what needs to be done. This program is dead and buried.

Does Indiana have the balls to do what needs to be done? Do they have the competency? Do they even care enough?

Agree with you, but IU probably not. I don't think IU would want to spend over $4M/year. 

[FW_Hoosier]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Does it even matter anymore...could it get any worse. Archie Miller is equivalent of Jeff Fisher...500 coach. I refer to the good book....because you are lukewarm neither hot nor cold I spit you out my mouth. I can’t stand the taste of this IU program. To me being mediocre is more maddening then being bad.

There Will Be Blood... Classic

[IUCrazy2]

10 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Purdue hit almost 70% from the 3 point line. This has been consistent for all of Archie's tenure.  That is a ridiculous percentage.  Is it his defenses fault?  Seriously, what is it with shitass teams like ISU and well all of them draining threes like this? Its insane.  It defies reality.  This has been the most unusual 4 years of IU basketball I have experienced.  

It's the defense.  It is designed to stop dribble penetration but if you are slow to recover, catch a team in a rhythm from deep, or run into a team that is really executing their offense then you get picked apart.  You run into a team shooting like Purdue did tonight and it makes you look bad.  So bad that you could be the first #1 seed to get knocked out by a 16 seed in the tournament (hat tip Virginia).

But I really think our issue, and the issue with a bunch of teams that run pack line, is that they tend to lack any dynamic on offense.  So on nights when the other team is hitting, they do not have a good chance to win because there is no offensive firepower to keep up.

That grind it out defense will generally keep most games close but it is a grind it out style that generally makes games ho-hum to watch.  If you are not an IU fan, you are not turning on our snooze fest games.

[mrflynn03]

8 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

It's the defense.  It is designed to stop dribble penetration but if you are slow to recover, catch a team in a rhythm from deep, or run into a team that is really executing their offense then you get picked apart.  You run into a team shooting like Purdue did tonight and it makes you look bad.  So bad that you could be the first #1 seed to get knocked out by a 16 seed in the tournament (hat tip Virginia).

But I really think our issue, and the issue with a bunch of teams that run pack line, is that they tend to lack any dynamic on offense.  So on nights when the other team is hitting, they do not have a good chance to win because there is no offensive firepower to keep up.

That grind it out defense will generally keep most games close but it is a grind it out style that generally makes games ho-hum to watch.  If you are not an IU fan, you are not turning on our snooze fest games.

Thanks, great synopsis.

I really feel alot of coaches make the game more complicated than it really is. Unfortunately I feel CAM is one of the those coaches.  It will cost him his job and IU just wasted another 4-5 years. 

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Thanks, great synopsis.

I really feel alot of coaches make the game more complicated than it really is. Unfortunately I feel CAM is one of the those coaches.  It will cost him his job and IU just wasted another 4-5 years. 

Coaches micro manage the game way to much on college.  I guess they think they can control things from the sidelines but players needs to have the freedom on the court.  Wooden always said practice is for coaches and games are the players   He said if I coached them well in practice then they should know what to do in the games.

I think our players don't have any freedom on the court and it shows that they play to mechanical.

[IU Scott]

I will be that guy to say I told you do.  When everyone was calling for Crean's head O said beware of what you wish for.  I knew if we made a change the chances of getting a big time coach was minimal.  Probably good thing I am not in charge becausr I would have hired Greg Marshall

[mrflynn03]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Coaches micro manage the game way to much on college.  I guess they think they can control things from the sidelines but players needs to have the freedom on the court.  Wooden always said practice is for coaches and games are the players   He said if I coached them well in practice then they should know what to do in the games.

I think our players don't have any freedom on the court and it shows that they play to mechanical.

Completely agree.  I only got to experience the 90's teams but even RMK just let them play.  Archie is managing games like Hes Joseph Stalin.   

They seem to play like they are afraid to make mistakes.  

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, mrflynn03 said:

Completely agree.  I only got to experience the 90's teams but even RMK just let them play.  Archie is managing games like Hes Joseph Stalin.   

They seem to play like they are afraid to make mistakes.  

The myth was RMK was only about defense and half court offense but even close to being accurate. The 81 team in 5 tournament games scored big.  The only game they didn't was the championship game where they won 63-50.  The first game they scored 99 and that was with no shot clock or 3 pointers.

[mrflynn03]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The myth was RMK was only about defense and half court offense but even close to being accurate. The 81 team in 5 tournament games scored big.  The only game they didn't was the championship game where they won 63-50.  The first game they scored 99 and that was with no shot clock or 3 pointers.

That was the year with Isiah and they struggled early but when Kinght let IT play his game they tore it up, right?  And won an NC in '81.

Coach Knight wasnt as rigid as most would think. 

Archie is unmovable, and it will get him canned. 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

That was the year with Isiah and they struggled early but when Kinght let IT play his game they tore it up, right?  And won an NC in '81.

Coach Knight wasnt as rigid as most would think. 

Archie is unmovable, and it will get him canned. 

That was the year and started 7-5 and lost a game to Pan American.  Between letting IT loose and Turner finally buying in they turned it around.  There average winning margin in the tournament was 23

[addictedtoIU]

CAM's IU teams hang on defense. That's how they stay in the game. When defense doesn't work, they got no chance because offense sucks.

Crean's IU teams hung on offense. When his offense didn't work, he got no chance to win games. 

Seems like in the last 12-13 years, IU has had 1/2 of a fully capable coach. A coach doesn't need to be stellar at both ends of the court; some stress on offense, and others stress on defense, but there has to be some healthy balance to make things work. So if IU has to part ways with CAM, can I please have someone who can coach both offense and defense? Watching my IU team losing games because they can't score enough points is almost as equally painful as to see my IU team losing games because they can't stop the other teams from scoring. 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, addictedtoIU said:

CAM's IU teams hang on defense. That's how they stay in the game. When defense doesn't work, they got no chance because offense sucks.

Crean's IU teams hung on offense. When his offense didn't work, he got no chance to win games. 

Seems like in the last 12-13 years, IU has had 1/2 of a fully capable coach. A coach doesn't need to be stellar at both ends of the court; some stress on offense, and others stress on defense, but there has to be some healthy balance to make things work. So if IU has to part ways with CAM, can I please have someone who can coach both offense and defense? Watching my IU team losing games because they can't score enough points is almost as equally painful as to see my IU team losing games because they can't stop the other teams from scoring. 

I know at UM that Bielien struggled until he brought in a defensive coordinator

[KoB2011]

Archie didn't miss the shots, but he coached a bad game. He went away from things that had been working like playing Leal more or playing Hunter at the three more, multiple times he had TJD guarding an inbounder underneath trying to put size on them and Purdue ran a play to get the passer an easy three, he played Armaan WAY too much. I get that Armaan was one of the few playing hard tonight and he put up some points, but he was bad tonight. He sucked on defense, his forced a lot of bad shots that weren't even close; he should've played more like 15-20 minutes. 

Also, can we please stop talking about TJD going pro? I mean maybe he will make a dumb decision, but that kid isn't close to being an NBA player and he isn't some guy that has untapped potential a team will take a shot on. He's an undersized 5 that can't shoot worth a damn; he's a really good four year college player IMO. 

[addictedtoIU]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I know at UM that Bielien struggled until he brought in a defensive coordinator

Then, I think that's something Archie can try if he wants to keep his job. But the question is if he's open-minded. I think Archie would come back next season even if he misses the tournament. IU has a tendency to act slow. If TJD goes pro, wrting's on the wall, but like you said, if he hires someone to fix his sluggish offense in the off-season, he may have a chance.