Post Game (Mortem) Thread

[jefftheref]

5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I've never felt that the IU players have bought into what Archie is trying to sell them.   The Purdue players are totally opposite.  Painter has them doing it his way.   

If that's true we either have the wrong players or coach or possibly both.

Time to deal with reality and address the situation.

[Fundamentals]

Now is probably not the best time to remember Purdue ate our lunch in recruiting heading into next season: Furst and Kaufman.  Yikes, gonna be a bumpy ride. 

[MSHoosier]

6 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

It's the defense.  It is designed to stop dribble penetration but if you are slow to recover, catch a team in a rhythm from deep, or run into a team that is really executing their offense then you get picked apart.  You run into a team shooting like Purdue did tonight and it makes you look bad.  So bad that you could be the first #1 seed to get knocked out by a 16 seed in the tournament (hat tip Virginia).

But I really think our issue, and the issue with a bunch of teams that run pack line, is that they tend to lack any dynamic on offense.  So on nights when the other team is hitting, they do not have a good chance to win because there is no offensive firepower to keep up.

That grind it out defense will generally keep most games close but it is a grind it out style that generally makes games ho-hum to watch.  If you are not an IU fan, you are not turning on our snooze fest games.

This.  Didn't watch this game. Taped it and now don't want to watch it. However, my observation is that Archie seemed to say in preseason that he wanted to play faster on offense this year, but every time I watch, the offense doesn't even try to attack early or throw the ball ahead. It seems to me that every other good offensive team is not afraid to push the ball up the court and take an open three when you get it.

[Billingsley99]

For 4 years I have been called out for being critical because CAM just needs time, his players  blah blah blah. He is so far in over his head there is no getting out of this. Matt Painter coached circles around him, think about that for a while.  Last time PU beat IU 8 straight John Wooden was playing.  I know I know only 7 of the losses were CAM its CTC fault for starring the losing streak. I did not keep stats but from memory I think PU scored at least 16 points on BLOB, so much for great defensive minded coach. I could write a book about how bad this program is. If anyone seriously thinks this team is well coached I have nothing for you. There is zero toughness thsts unexcusable. We have no shooters from any distance. I truly don't feel confident in any shot that we take. We do nothing to even try to get transition points, our BLOB plays are get it in and reset the offense. There is nothing about this programs that suggests we will turn the corner.

Like I said 2 years ago and last year and earlier this year.more and more apathy sitting it. There has not been 1 game this year that prior to the game I thought we WILL win the game. We are what our 4 year record says we are a bad team with piss poor coaching. 

I turned last nights game off with 6.min to go. There was no fire or intensity and I knew Painter and his guys were not going to allow us to win this game. Sad sad state of affairs.  IU football can't get here fast. I better go. I am sure to many of you I am too negative.  Let me know after CAM gets 8 years how that works out for all of you that keep preaching 4 or 5 or .... years are not enough just ask Coach K, IZZO, BENNETT, WRIGHT .....

I am so sick and tired of losing to PU, make no.mistake Painter owns Archie

[Artesian_86]

I purposely don't get on post game threads when we loose for obvious reasons. I have my own views, interpretations and frustrations. I will state the obvious.....

                               #1. We don't have ONE gun slinging, back breaking, go to outside shooter.  There's not one guy on that  bench that that can game in and game out hit 3's consistently.

                                #2. Our 3 pt. defense last night was terrible. We have played far better defense against better team this year.....not acceptable.

                                 #3. Am I the only one who though the refs called too many ticky-tak fouls. There was no flow and continuity because of stoppage from whistles being blown.

                                  #4. Going 16 for 29 at the free throw line.....Backbreaking!!!!!

 

[AxnJxn]

9 hours ago, dgambill said:

Well said. We are Indiana basketball because we won 5 national championships and are one of the most winning programs in all of basketball...not because our kids are all pure as the driven snow and never got in trouble before. You can’t visit a university in this country that doesn’t have alcohol and drug issues from time to time. Fix it and focus on what is important. Anyways burnt bridge...question is where we go from here.

Well, TBF, part of the pride in our program, especially during the RMK years, was that we were doing it the "right" way - graduating players, no recruiting violations, and so forth. It's one of the many reasons we couldn't stand Kentucky, and Adolph Rupp and Joe B. Hall were the major reasons. While we also had a very healthy dislike for Purdue, we respected them because Keady was also running a "clean" program.

As for Sampson, he was a terrific coach, but he was kind of a used car salesman of a person, and was obviously ok bending the rules like Kentucky did back in the RMK years. A lot of people who were around for those years aren't going to accept that. RMK's legacy was more than just winning titles.  

[IUCrazy2]

30 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

For 4 years I have been called out for being critical because CAM just needs time, his players  blah blah blah. He is so far in over his head there is no getting out of this. Matt Painter coached circles around him, think about that for a while.  Last time PU beat IU 8 straight John Wooden was playing.  I know I know only 7 of the losses were CAM its CTC fault for starring the losing streak. I did not keep stats but from memory I think PU scored at least 16 points on BLOB, so much for great defensive minded coach. I could write a book about how bad this program is. If anyone seriously thinks this team is well coached I have nothing for you. There is zero toughness thsts unexcusable. We have no shooters from any distance. I truly don't feel confident in any shot that we take. We do nothing to even try to get transition points, our BLOB plays are get it in and reset the offense. There is nothing about this programs that suggests we will turn the corner.

Like I said 2 years ago and last year and earlier this year.more and more apathy sitting it. There has not been 1 game this year that prior to the game I thought we WILL win the game. We are what our 4 year record says we are a bad team with piss poor coaching. 

I turned last nights game off with 6.min to go. There was no fire or intensity and I knew Painter and his guys were not going to allow us to win this game. Sad sad state of affairs.  IU football can't get here fast. I better go. I am sure to many of you I am too negative.  Let me know after CAM gets 8 years how that works out for all of you that keep preaching 4 or 5 or .... years are not enough just ask Coach K, IZZO, BENNETT, WRIGHT .....

I am so sick and tired of losing to PU, make no.mistake Painter owns Archie

He will get a 5th year because of the buyout IMO.  I am in your school of thought though.

I think 1 of 2 things happen.  TJD comes back, the freshman get a year older, and he finds a way to get to the tournament and thus the school says, "Our patience paid off" and they extend him and from there...who knows.  I am just worried about a Crean situation from there where we are up and down and we waste another decade before the wheels fall off and we have to do this again.

The other is that TJD checks out of the program, we don't have the horses, bad year 5 and he is let go.  Then we have Dolson, former team manager, who do we think he goes to talk to about a replacement?  I am thinking former players.  Knight guys.  Guys who will be pushing to hire a former player.  Cue Steve Alford.  They are not going to want to try the mid major experiment again and there will not be a bunch of Power 5 guys that we would want that will be clamoring for the job.  Steve is going to be towards the top of our next list.

My thoughts on that are kind of meh...I think he would get better results here than we have seen lately but I don't really know about him winning it all like we want.  But then again, maybe we need a guy that can be a 10 to 15 year bridge of good basketball that would make this place look attractive again.  Alford could maybe do that.  But if I was a betting man, if Archie is fired, I bet a hard look is taken in that direction.

[IUFLA]

10 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

I purposely don't get on post game threads when we loose for obvious reasons. I have my own views, interpretations and frustrations. I will state the obvious.....

                               #1. We don't have ONE gun slinging, back breaking, go to outside shooter. There's not one guy on that 

                                    bench that that can game in and game out hit 3's consistently.

                                #2. Our 3 pt. defense last night was terrible. We have played far better defense against better team this

                                      year.....not acceptable.

                                 #3. Am I the only one who though the refs called too many ticky-tak fouls. There was no flow and 

                                    continuity because of stoppage from whistles being blown.

                                  #4. Going 16 for 29 at the free throw line.....Backbreaking!!!!!

You pretty much covered it...I said in the pre-game that Ivey was a 15% 3 point shooter, and we should let him shoot all day...and he went 2-2...Of course when teams sag off of Trey, it's brilliant strategy...

Jerome Hunter, the 2 3 point shots he hit aside, didn't have that inside fight that he'd displayed in the previous 3 games...Not boxing out, making bad passes, losing his man in defense...he regressed a little...

And Al...I guess I shouldn't have said just his 3 point shooting is inconsistent, his whole GAME is inconsistent...We need better from both of our upperclassmen in the back court...

I will say though that I thought some of Trey's minutes should have gone to Anthony or Hunter...we have to have someone who'll pull the trigger from outside with confidence...And that's at CAM's feet...

On to Iowa...

[Inequality]

This program hasn’t hit rock bottom until it has brought back Steve Alford. I was skeptical of the Dolson hire because of that very possibility. SMH The real possibility of short shorts, & the Tony Danza haircut making a return while B97 airs Bon Jovi is frightening.

[IUCrazy2]

8 minutes ago, Inequality said:

This program hasn’t hit rock bottom until it has brought back Steve Alford. I was skeptical of the Dolson hire because of that very possibility. SMH The real possibility of short shorts, & the Tony Danza haircut making a return while B97 airs Bon Jovi is frightening.

I understand that, but you totally see why I think he would be the guy right?

[Maedhros]

7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Also, can we please stop talking about TJD going pro? I mean maybe he will make a dumb decision, but that kid isn't close to being an NBA player and he isn't some guy that has untapped potential a team will take a shot on. He's an undersized 5 that can't shoot worth a damn; he's a really good four year college player IMO. 

Going pro isn't just about being NBA ready. It's also about whether staying in school is your best path to becoming ready. Does Trayce think he will develop the skills he needs playing part time under Archie, or by getting paid to play full time somewhere else, not necessarily the NBA?

In a system where even the guards are told to get to the rim and can't make an outside shot, tough to see Trayce developing a needed perimeter game at Indiana.

[IUCrazy2]

5 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Going pro isn't just about being NBA ready. It's also about whether staying in school is your best path to becoming ready. Does Trayce think he will develop the skills he needs playing part time under Archie, or by getting paid to play full time somewhere else, not necessarily the NBA?

In a system where even the guards are told to get to the rim and can't make an outside shot, tough to see Trayce developing a needed perimeter game at Indiana.

And outside of the perimeter game, even his game in the interior involves almost exclusively one hand.

[rico]

Purdue is better than us.  We suck.  On to the next loss.

[Indykev]

10 hours ago, Parakeet Jones said:

Didn’t Archie say he watched him play out in Colorado and thought he was ready to go right now?

Coach speak. Lander cant guard guys 4 and 5 years older than he is. Every shot he takes open or not is rushed.

[NotIThatLives]

8 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Coaches micro manage the game way to much on college.  I guess they think they can control things from the sidelines but players needs to have the freedom on the court.  Wooden always said practice is for coaches and games are the players   He said if I coached them well in practice then they should know what to do in the games.

I think our players don't have any freedom on the court and it shows that they play to mechanical.

So factual.  

Example.  IU player gets an offensive rebound, instead of immediately looking for a way to score, THE ENTIRE team looks to the bench for a play call.  

What? Why?  

Remember the podcast that Hartman said they didn't know the expectations for the offense.  ??? Whaaaat?  Score!!!

[Indykev]

26 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Going pro isn't just about being NBA ready. It's also about whether staying in school is your best path to becoming ready. Does Trayce think he will develop the skills he needs playing part time under Archie, or by getting paid to play full time somewhere else, not necessarily the NBA?

In a system where even the guards are told to get to the rim and can't make an outside shot, tough to see Trayce developing a needed perimeter game at Indiana.

Even in college you can't ask a kid to shoot outside of 3 feet when TJD clearly can't. You do nothing for him or the team running plays asking him to do it. Its on TJD to develop that shot in the summer time. NBA big men will eat TJD alive at this point. He plays soft most of the time, he plays one handed and can't shoot. Not sure who would even draft him.

[dwtaylor1055]

TJD right now is a early 2nd rounder at best MAYBE late 1st for someone like the Lakers or Celtics that can afford for him to develop over a year or two.  Sure he’s a beast around the rim but outside of the paint he has NO shot. Just look at Garza and that’s what TJD can get to if he can shoot outside and hustle more than what he does now. He’ll be back next year and I would imagine he’ll have a outside shot next year as well(I hope).  

[Indykev]

We are who we are. No more excuses. It was wait until this happens or that happens, Archie will turn us around. Not happening. The Big Ten keeps getting better and better and here we are headed back to the bottom of the league. All we heard just wait we'll get better with the 21 class, all Archie got was a big skidmark from the crap he took in his pants. A mistake was made with this hire and it needs fixed no matter the buyout. But its IU so it won't be fixed.

[HoosierDom]

As usual, people need to calm down. PU lit us up from deep, they're not a good shooting team, but they had a good game. If they just had their best shooting game of the year, rather that their best in 5 years, that game goes to the wire. If they have their normal shooting night, we win comfortably. Certainly we could have guarded them better, but they don't shoot that well in warm-ups. 

Our guards are still below conference average. Franklin rounding back into form will help a lot - there was still a lot to like about him last night - and hopefully the new kid will help, too.

[CincyHoosier]

26 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

As usual, people need to calm down. PU lit us up from deep, they're not a good shooting team, but they had a good game. If they just had their best shooting game of the year, rather that their best in 5 years, that game goes to the wire. If they have their normal shooting night, we win comfortably. Certainly we could have guarded them better, but they don't shoot that well in warm-ups. 

Our guards are still below conference average. Franklin rounding back into form will help a lot - there was still a lot to like about him last night - and hopefully the new kid will help, too.

"Sensibility" or "realistic" posts like this can be found in every postgame thread for losses.  "Hey guys, its one game, calm down."  Then the same happens next game and we are convinced we could have won if _____ didn't shoot well or if ____ would have been called for more or less fouls or if ____ would have played more or ____ wasn't injured.  At some point its not a them problem, its an us problem. 

[Inequality]

30 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

As usual, people need to calm down. PU lit us up from deep, they're not a good shooting team, but they had a good game. If they just had their best shooting game of the year, rather that their best in 5 years, that game goes to the wire. If they have their normal shooting night, we win comfortably. Certainly we could have guarded them better, but they don't shoot that well in warm-ups. 

Our guards are still below conference average. Franklin rounding back into form will help a lot - there was still a lot to like about him last night - and hopefully the new kid will help, too.

If IU hits free throws (16-29) it’s a different game.

Regardless, IU lost at home to its in state rival... again. Seniors at IU have no idea what it’s like to beat Purdue on the basketball court much less hold a home court winning streak. 

CAM was brought in with the understanding of winning the big and making deep runs in the NCAA tourney. He can’t even win at home right now. Every game is a struggle.

[OLDIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Inequality said:

If IU hits free throws (16-29) it’s a different game.

Regardless, IU lost at home to its in state rival... again. Seniors at IU have no idea what it’s like to beat Purdue on the basketball court much less hold a home court winning streak. 

CAM was brought in with the understanding of winning the big and making deep runs in the NCAA tourney. He can’t even win at home right now. Every game is a struggle.

I hate to say it ,but i am starting to get there myself! We paid him a lot of money to make us a consistent contender in the Big Ten and in the tournament, not a bubble team that might get a 10 or 11 seed if so an so loses. We are not a great home team. That’s why we get teams playing their best when they come here. Because they walk in the door knowing not thinking knowing they can . 
I bet if you put a tape together of all Archie’s post game comments they all say the same thing the last 4 years. 
we need to play hard defense we need to shoot better we need to make free throws we need to go to work and fix this! 

 

[IUfan93]

11 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Completely miserable.  We had Tom Crean and Jay Cutler... two talented guys that could never put it all together, and I wanted them gone more than anything by the end.

Then in 2017 we replaced them with Archie Miller and Mitch Trubisky... And they’ve both been so bad it’s impossible to even care anymore.

More than Mitch that egomaniac of a HC is who I wanted out. Mitch was gone regardless and Pace was a complete moron for taking him but the problem doesn’t just lie with Mitch it starts with Nagy and moves from there. 
 

Just seems everywhere I turn, my sports teams are in the tank. I’m so apathetic about IU basketball and have no optimism left it’s getting turned around soon. The Bears give me the same feelings.  Going to be a long wait until college football starts again. 

[Stlboiler23]

29 minutes ago, Inequality said:

If IU hits free throws (16-29) it’s a different game.

Regardless, IU lost at home to its in state rival... again. Seniors at IU have no idea what it’s like to beat Purdue on the basketball court much less hold a home court winning streak. 

CAM was brought in with the understanding of winning the big and making deep runs in the NCAA tourney. He can’t even win at home right now. Every game is a struggle.

I was surprised at how poorly both teams shot free throws. We missed 11 (20-31). 24 missed free throws combined was significant. 

[HoosierDom]

1 hour ago, CincyHoosier said:

"Sensibility" or "realistic" posts like this can be found in every postgame thread for losses.  "Hey guys, its one game, calm down."  Then the same happens next game and we are convinced we could have won if _____ didn't shoot well or if ____ would have been called for more or less fouls or if ____ would have played more or ____ wasn't injured.  At some point its not a them problem, its an us problem. 

Yes, we will lose again. And we will win again.