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Post Game (Mortem) Thread


5fouls

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50 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I guess I don't really get your point. You said, "Yogi wasn't that good his early years." I guess it depends on what you expectation was of him. He wasn't a perfect player and he had growing pains early on, as all players do, especially insanely hyped point guards, but you don't average 17ppg in the Big Ten as a sophomore unless you're really, really good. 

Crean put a crappy, dysfunctional team around a 5* sophomore point guard. That's more on him, than Yogi. 

Again, all due respect. IU career.432 percentage. I guess that’s good? 

Career 2-1 assists to turnovers is respectable.

 I agree that in his last two years he improved. I question the first two.

This all started with the comment that CAM has not recruited a pg similar to Yogi. All I’m saying is that it’s hard to make that judgment based on Landers’ first year. He has not gotten nearly the opportunity that Yogi was presented with, nor did he have the surrounding talent that Yogi had.

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6 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Again, all due respect. IU career.432 percentage. I guess that’s good? 

Career 2-1 assists to turnovers is respectable.

 I agree that in his last two years he improved. I question the first two.

This all started with the comment that CAM has not recruited a pg similar to Yogi. All I’m saying is that it’s hard to make that judgment based on Landers’ first year. He has not gotten nearly the opportunity that Yogi was presented with, nor did he have the surrounding talent that Yogi had.

If IU's AD and Administration would have allowed Mckinley Wright to transfer with Coach Miller...things would be much much different. 

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9 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Again, all due respect. IU career.432 percentage. I guess that’s good? 

Career 2-1 assists to turnovers is respectable.

 I agree that in his last two years he improved. I question the first two.

This all started with the comment that CAM has not recruited a pg similar to Yogi. All I’m saying is that it’s hard to make that judgment based on Landers’ first year. He has not gotten nearly the opportunity that Yogi was presented with, nor did he have the surrounding talent that Yogi had.

Lander isn't remotely ready to compete at this level. Yogi was a starter on the #1 team in the nation. 

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Just now, Steubenhoosier said:

Right. Yogi had better talent around him and could play more as a freshman because of it 

Isn't that a reason Lander should be playing more? Yogi was good enough to crack the starting lineup on a Sweet Sixteen team that was coming back as a top 5 team. 

Lander is on a team that desperately needs guard play, has no other high level guards he needs to compete with, and he can't get 5mpg. At this point in their careers Lander is miles behind what Yogi was. 

Regardless that wasn't really the main point. The main point is IU has only 1 guard on the entire roster that was rated better than #120 in his class. That's a major problem to be consistently successful at this level. 

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11 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

If IU's AD and Administration would have allowed Mckinley Wright to transfer with Coach Miller...things would be much much different. 

Maybe I don't know the whole story, but this never added up to me.  Miller booted Gelon that spring and brought in Race.  Why couldn't he have booted of Gelon and brought in Wright instead?  

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9 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Maybe I don't know the whole story, but this never added up to me.  Miller booted Gelon that spring and brought in Race.  Why couldn't he have booted of Gelon and brought in Wright instead?  

Times like this is when I miss Mile. He could fill you and the board in. Just my little opinion....IU Admin and AD's office because of optics hamstrung our coach the first 1-2 years. Not giving him an out...just saying what happened. 

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22 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Isn't that a reason Lander should be playing more? Yogi was good enough to crack the starting lineup on a Sweet Sixteen team that was coming back as a top 5 team. 

Lander is on a team that desperately needs guard play, has no other high level guards he needs to compete with, and he can't get 5mpg. At this point in their careers Lander is miles behind what Yogi was. 

Regardless that wasn't really the main point. The main point is IU has only 1 guard on the entire roster that was rated better than #120 in his class. That's a major problem to be consistently successful at this level. 

Landers is 17 years old and should be thinking about who to take to prom.

At that age a year makes a big difference 

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3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Times like this is when I miss Mile. He could fill you and the board in. Just my little opinion....IU Admin and AD's office because of optics hamstrung our coach the first 1-2 years. Not giving him an out...just saying what happened. 

Not disagreeing that he might have been hamstrung, just don't get how he was hamstrung into not getting Wright, but he could boot Gelon and bring in Race.  Was there some difference between Wright and Race that allowed him to bring in Race but not Wright?

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2 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Not disagreeing that he might have been hamstrung, just don't get how he was hamstrung into not getting Wright, but he could boot Gelon and bring in Race.  Was there some difference between Wright and Race that allowed him to bring in Race but not Wright?

Optics. Was easier to boot a kid from previous coach....bring in a top 100 kid in Race as an early entrant....besides poaching from the small school player wise. Even though the university had zero problem poaching for a coach. That...and there was something in the APR formula that I still haven't wrapped my brain around. One of these days I'll have to actually study the APR but when Crean left....IU was not in a good place. I think the Australian said the APR had to be above 925 iirc?? 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Optics. Was easier to boot a kid from previous coach....bring in a top 100 kid in Race as an early entrant....besides poaching from the small school player wise. Even though the university had zero problem poaching for a coach. That...and there was something in the APR formula that I still haven't wrapped my brain around. One of these days I'll have to actually study the APR but when Crean left....IU was not in a good place. I think the Australian said the APR had to be above 925 iirc?? 

 

 

Gotcha.  It always just seemed like a convenient excuse to me.  I never have any inside info, so maybe he really wasn't allowed to bring in Wright.  When we hired Archie, I kind of thought he might be the coach that would say, "what the hell are you going to do, fire me 1 month into my tenure?"  Obviously tough/impossible to go against your boss if that was the case, but Archie would have held all the cards.  Not a chance you're getting fired in the first month.  Would have been fun to call the administration's bluff.

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3 hours ago, BGleas said:

I agree. Is Lander the only guard on the roster ranked better than 120th in their class out of high school? I think he is. 

Phinisee, Durham, Leal, Franklin, Galloway, and even Stewart were all 120+.

This is freakin Indiana basketball and in year 4 there is only one guard on the roster ranked better than 120, and that player plays 2mpg!?!?

That is why our guards stink. 

This is what I keep pointing out.  People get upset that Rob or Al don't take over.  I'm pretty sure the highest ranked guy in the group you just named was 134.  Durham 230.  These are not highly talented guys if we're being honest.  They are average at best.  

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22 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Not disagreeing that he might have been hamstrung, just don't get how he was hamstrung into not getting Wright, but he could boot Gelon and bring in Race.  Was there some difference between Wright and Race that allowed him to bring in Race but not Wright?

https://www.heraldbulletin.com/sports/dayton-recruit-thinking-about-following-miller-to-iu/article_fc13a260-140e-11e7-99f1-e77f64ad1d25.html

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2 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I have become negative lately but to be fair, Yogi was not that good in his early years. He was notorious for getting up in the air with nowhere to go. He had the good fortune of being surrounded with good players.... much better than the talent on this roster.

 I do think Lander can be the guy, he just has to mature 

Yogi made mistakes when he was young for sure, but he still averaged 7.6ppg and 4.1 apg his freshman year and then jumped to 17.3ppg his sophomore year.  I agree about Lander though.  As much as everyone is disappointed (including me) he is so quick and seems to have the "it" factor of passing, but is just totally lost right now.  

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4 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Just my two cents but Painter offered or was told he had no chance at every single player 1-7 not named Race Thompson and Al Durham on our roster. He wanted TJD, Leal, Galloway, Rob and on and on.....Dakich is real good at coming around with I told you so mantra. Many are. Including what seems like the majority on this board recently. 

Dakich is not a guy I'd listen to on the subject. But since Dakich is who some think is the gospel....I ask again. When Painter went 4 straight years without a tourney win after being on the job for 7 years....what did Dakich say at that time? Just wish that windbag would come on this board. 

Don’t think Painter was ever interested in Leal. He was with Galloway until Ivey and Morton committed IIRC. Losing RP stung at the time no doubt and we would’ve loved to have had TJD. 

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9 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Instead of objects in mirror are closer than they appear. Our mottos is teams are not nearly as good as ww make them appear.

There are many examples, but I think Aaron Falzon of NW is near the top of the list. Career avg 4 ppg, 35% from 3. Hadn't played in weeks. Came off the bench to hit 6 of 7 from 3 and post career high 21 pts.

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