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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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7 minutes ago, HoosierAlice said:

I would say Indiana's next coach needs to come from this list:

Top 27 College Basketball Coaches

27.  Rick Barnes

26. Frank Martin

25. Bruce Weber

24. Lon Kruger

23. Mark Turgeon

22. Kelvin Sampson

21. Chris Mack

20. Steve Prohm

19. Jim Boheim

18. Will Wade

17. Greg Gard

16. Leonard Hamilton

15. Porter Moser

14. Eric Musselman

13. Bruce Pearl

12. Coach K

11. Sean Miller

10. Chris Beard

9.  Matt Painter

8.  Tom Izzo

7. John Calipari

6. Tony Bennett

5.  Dana Altman

4. Mark Few

3. Bill Self

2. Roy Williams

1. Jay Wright

Don't have any complaints who is on that list (most of them), but the ranking of them is disturbing. haha. Coach K and Izzo at 8 and 12? Dana Altman at 5? Porter Moser made the tournament once in his career....I even had to look him up...I thought Sister Jean coached that team!!!

That said, I really like the idea of Hamilton. 

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3 minutes ago, AshtonHershey said:

What is the criteria of this ranking? I mean, we all agree that Dana Altman is better than Coach K, but other spots may get questioned by people.

When compiling this list, first and foremost, many factors and criteria were taken out of consideration and they are as mentioned below:

*The previous condition of the program good or bad, prior to becoming the head coach.
*Factoring in a coach being at a prototypical “blue blood” or power 5 program or even if he is at what is considered a high-end mid-major school.
*How well the coach is perceived to make in-game decisions and substitutions during games.
*Not critiquing how he schedules difficult or easy non-conference games each season.
*Ability to recruit highly rated players as part of an incoming class of student-athletes.
*The perception and reputation of being or not being a great x’s and o’s coach.
*The amount of time that a head coach has been coaching at the Division one level.
*The ability or inability to handle off the court issues such as having their program being put on NCAA probation.
*The ability to hire assistant coaches who recruit well and help advance the program overall.

Second, the list of coaches had to meet only two specific requirements:

*Must be a current Division one head coach.
*Won at least a conference regular season or tournament championship, or reached the final round of sixteen of the NCAA tournament over the past five seasons.

Third, below is the criteria and scoring breakdown to determine the ranking of the top coaches in division one basketball in the past five seasons.

Criteria and Scoring Breakdown

40 points for National Championships

25 points Final Four Appearances

20 points for Regular Season Conference Championships (ACC, Big Ten, Pac-12, Big 12, SEC, Big East, and A 10 conferences)

15 points for Conference Tournament Championships (ACC, Big Ten, Pac-12, Big 12, SEC, Big East, and A 10 conferences)

10 points for Sweet Sixteen Appearances

10 points for Regular Season Conference Championships (In the other conferences not mentioned in the group above)

7 points for Conference Tournament Championships (In the other conferences not mentioned in the group above)

5 points for winning a postseason tournament that was not the NCAA Tournament

5 points for every season with 30 or more wins

4 points for every season with 20 or more wins

3 points for post-season tournament championships other than the NCAA Tournament

2 points for every NCAA Tournament berth

*The coach had to be a head coach at a division 1 school from the period covering the seasons from 2015-2016 to 2019-2020.

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1 minute ago, tdhoosier said:

Don't have any complaints who is on that list (most of them), but the ranking of them is disturbing. haha. Coach K and Izzo at 8 and 12? Dana Altman at 5? Porter Moser made the tournament once in his career....I even had to look him up...I thought Sister Jean coached that team!!!

That said, I really like the idea of Hamilton. 

I like Hamilton a lot also.  Right now I would have him near the top of my list.  Chris Beard would be my choice right now.

 

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I really like Archie. I really want him to succeed at IU. 

Right now, I just can not put my finger on whats wrong.

I have no doubt Archie can coach and recruit. But nothing has "clicked" since he has gotten here.

I like him, I am still (barely) holding out hope. But something is off beyond X's and O's. And it has been from day 1.

I thought this would be the season we would see that change. See it start coming together. But just does not seem to be happening......again.  

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3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

In 4 years we have yet to have 1 guy that can consistently for the course of 1 year knock down shots.

In the 5 games before he hurt his ankle, Armaan was shooting 60% from 3...

AF.PNG.8e233a37a4f882edccf0fe3573ed7e58.PNG

Now, I didn't think he would shoot that for the rest of the year, but I don't think 40% was out of reach. Last night, he was compromised, especially on his jumper...Did you see how badly he missed the wide open look from the corner? Come on, man...I'm sure you've had your share of ankle sprains...Not easy to play with even after 2 weeks. Hunter can knock down shots...Leal can...And the Stewart kid can too...

Rob wasn't 100% either...And I think the gimpy knee affected his shot as well...

8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I wold rather CAM bring in shooters and try to teach them defense etc.. than to bring in guys the "fit" and teach them to shoot obviously that is not his strength.

You know as well as I do that defense relies on some physical attributes (lateral quickness, strength) that some kids just don't possess to play in the B1G. We can have our cake and eat it too...Again, see Armaan...

10 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I would be fine if he brought in hard nosed kids that left it all on the court and struggle shooting but unfortunately we are bad at both

Doesn't that sound exactly like Trey Galloway? Anthony Leal? The problem is, they're freshmen...They'll get there...

I understand some people are disappointed and emotional about Indiana Basketball...Hell, I am too...Last night I was incredibly frustrated that we kept putting ourselves in a hole, only to climb back into it...And then fall back again...I made the statement that we keep bending them, they'll break, but they didn't...

We have the rest of this season to go...I'll watch every game I can...and at the end of the year, I'll see where I'm at as far as Archie and his job goes...I'm almost positive he'll get one more year...

But we'll see...

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I never liked Scott Drew but the results he produces is pretty solid considering he is at Baylor.  I know he did some shady stuff with Perea and other coaches in Big 12 thought he kind of back stabbed them but he he hasn't been slammed for any violations. His teams really play tough.  I'd go for Beard first but I think Drew would be a solid selection. I like Archie and don't care if he goes or stays.  I think the system is fine and his coaching is fine but toughness and motivation just seems to be missing even though they play hard. They can't seem to get positive  momentum or over the hump. 

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1 hour ago, slojoe said:

We went after Bennett and couldn't get him.

 

59 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

When and with what terms?

IIRC, it really doesn't matter what the terms were then, nor would it matter now, nor in the future.

The Bennetts are a close family, and based on how his sister was treated when she coached the women's team here, he would never come to IU.

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2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

In the 5 games before he hurt his ankle, Armaan was shooting 60% from 3...

AF.PNG.8e233a37a4f882edccf0fe3573ed7e58.PNG

Now, I didn't think he would shoot that for the rest of the year, but I don't think 40% was out of reach. Last night, he was compromised, especially on his jumper...Did you see how badly he missed the wide open look from the corner? Come on, man...I'm sure you've had your share of ankle sprains...Not easy to play with even after 2 weeks. Hunter can knock down shots...Leal can...And the Stewart kid can too...

Rob wasn't 100% either...And I think the gimpy knee affected his shot as well...

You know as well as I do that defense relies on some physical attributes (lateral quickness, strength) that some kids just don't possess to play in the B1G. We can have our cake and eat it too...Again, see Armaan...

Doesn't that sound exactly like Trey Galloway? Anthony Leal? The problem is, they're freshmen...They'll get there...

I understand some people are disappointed and emotional about Indiana Basketball...Hell, I am too...Last night I was incredibly frustrated that we kept putting ourselves in a hole, only to climb back into it...And then fall back again...I made the statement that we keep bending them, they'll break, but they didn't...

We have the rest of this season to go...I'll watch every game I can...and at the end of the year, I'll see where I'm at as far as Archie and his job goes...I'm almost positive he'll get one more year...

But we'll see...

I got reamed last year because I called all of those things you listed as excuses. They are they may be factual but none the less an excuse. At what point do we stop making excuses. Every team goes through stuff and the good ones that have great leaders get through it. We dont get through any of these things. I love Leal, Galloway and I have always been the biggest AF fan since he was in high school but at some point it needs to transfer to the program. I thought we were getting a bulldog of a coach and we are closer to STAY PUFF. Teams are supposed to reflect their leader and just maybe our team is. Even when our defense is good its not a tough get into somebody box out crash hard dive for loose balls defense. All the things I love about basketball are missing in this program. I am past the point of being patient. If the players have no sense of urgency how as fans can we expect things to get any better. I drive a Ford Fusion everyday and I understand exactly what it is. I just don;t expect to walk out to the drive way and my fairy God Mother has turned it into a Lamborghini. Right now we are a damn ford pinto with 4 bad tires and smokes like a freight train you just hope and pray it might get  you there but truly not very confident.

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2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

 

IIRC, it really doesn't matter what the terms were then, nor would it matter now, nor in the future.

The Bennetts are a close family, and based on how his sister was treated when she coached the women's team here, he would never come to IU.

I don't care to debate about things we have no clue on earth about.  

What we can debate is how unlikely it would be that IU puts their big boys pants on and offers a Bennett, Wright or guy like that 10 years 100 million.  

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Just now, Billingsley99 said:

They are they may be factual but none the less an excuse. At what point do we stop making excuses.

I agree with this...There will come a time...

 

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

Teams are supposed to reflect their leader and just maybe our team is.

I've made this statement a few times, but while CAM may be the official leader, it's the kids themselves who have to lead and hold each other accountable...Archie can only do so much...

And while we do have Captains, it's TJD, as the best player on the team to really step up and demand better play...and he needs to include himself in that...

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I'll go on record as being an ardent Archie supporter as of 6:59 PM yesterday. I couldn't even finish the game last night. I really wanted him to succeed, but apathy has now set in. Whether it's the gameplans, shooting, readiness to play....we keep seeing the same issues over and over these past 3.5 years. These systemic issues fall to the head coach. 

I have now accepted that he is not going to be able to get the job done and IU will be looking for a new coach after next season. 

With that said, it's quite liberating knowing the next 15 months will basically be a run-out-the-clock scenario. 

Finally, I don't think the new coach has to an "Indiana Guy". Just ask Michigan football how that's worked out. 

I would also like to point out that I'm 36, born in 1984. My earliest memories of IU basketball are the Cheney/Henderson teams. When looking at the big picture, it's disheartening that I can count on one hand the number of really good teams IU has had since I've been a fan. I guess now I know what it's like to be a Bears fan (I root for a different team in the NFC North that would be blasphemous to say aloud)!

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2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I agree with this...There will come a time...

 

I've made this statement a few times, but while CAM may be the official leader, it's the kids themselves who have to lead and hold each other accountable...Archie can only do so much...

And while we do have Captains, it's TJD, as the best player on the team to really step up and demand better play...and he needs to include himself in that...

Attitude reflects leadership Captain. Don't you think all of the great leaders that IU has had over the years reflect their coach? We all could name a ton of former players that we would go to battle with and know they had your back. Since CAM has been here who are you in the foxhole with? Winners all have that 1 or more that you know when it gets tough that guy gets us through it. We have not had them. Will he have 1 or more in Leal or Galloway or AF??? I hope so. 

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14 hours ago, IU Scott said:

The only coach I think we might have a shot with who would be considered a top coach would be Beard at TT.  I have heard guys on TV says he loves Texas and had no desire to leave the state

I concur IU Scott, Chris Beard actually sat on the IU bench as an assistant coach under Bob Knight. But you probably already knew that.

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6 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I don't care to debate about things we have no clue on earth about.  

What we can debate is how unlikely it would be that IU puts their big boys pants on and offers a Bennett, Wright or guy like that 10 years 100 million.  

I think 10 million/year is a bit crazy, but I think UCLA set the market with Cronin. So if we're talking names like Hamilton, Beard, Wright etc. we'll need to be around $6 million/year. And who's to say those coach's schools would try and match it?  Realistically, I just don't see IU spending that especially after their athletic department getting slammed from COVID. If (a big if) CAM goes after next year maybe we go inside the family and look at Whitman or Smart and pair them up with a veteran assistant like UM. 

John Calipari, Kentucky: $8,158,000

Mike Krzyzewski, Duke: $7,256,924 

Mick Cronin, UCLA: $5,500,000, including a $2 million signing bonus

Rick Barnes, Tennessee: $4,700,000 

Chris Beard, Texas Tech: $4,430,000 

Jay Wright, Villanova: $4,410,304

Tom Izzo, Michigan State: $4,191,070

Roy Williams, North Carolina: $4,102,409

Chris Mack, Louisville: $4,067,494

Bill Self, Kansas: $3,985,857

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1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

Attitude reflects leadership Captain. Don't you think all of the great leaders that IU has had over the years reflect their coach?

Tricky question, but no, not necessarily...At least not in an outward sense...Alford was about as different than RMK as you can get, but he had that internal desire to win...Isiah wasn't a fiery leader...Buckner could be...

But toward the end of RMK's tenure, we had some player leadership issues as well...Some of the guys that RMK recruited that seemed to fit the bill, just didn't...

And by the time he finally got that straightened out with Fife, Coverdale et al, he got the boot...

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8 minutes ago, GoshenFan84 said:

I'll go on record as being an ardent Archie supporter as of 6:59 PM yesterday. I couldn't even finish the game last night. I really wanted him to succeed, but apathy has now set in. Whether it's the gameplans, shooting, readiness to play....we keep seeing the same issues over and over these past 3.5 years. These systemic issues fall to the head coach. 

I have now accepted that he is not going to be able to get the job done and IU will be looking for a new coach after next season. 

With that said, it's quite liberating knowing the next 15 months will basically be a run-out-the-clock scenario. 

Finally, I don't think the new coach has to an "Indiana Guy". Just ask Michigan football how that's worked out. 

I don't either.  But unless they are ready to shell out a serious contract for top level money, who wants to come here?  Why would a coach come here rather than say...TAMU or Texas Tech or Maryland or Washington or other mid level power 5 teams? To be subject to higher expectations with less resources?  So, the reasons I think it will be an "IU guy" are 1) admin won't pony up big dollars and 2) without ties to the program, a lateral move from another Power 5 program would be a hard sell and 3) an up and coming mid-major will pay attention to Archie's tenure here.  

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3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Tricky question, but no, not necessarily...At least not in an outward sense...Alford was about as different than RMK as you can get, but he had that internal desire to win...Isiah wasn't a fiery leader...Buckner could be...

But toward the end of RMK's tenure, we had some player leadership issues as well...Some of the guys that RMK recruited that seemed to fit the bill, just didn't...

And by the time he finally got that straightened out with Fife, Coverdale et al, he got the boot...

True but the guys knew who the leaders were and who they could count on. The qualities that IT, SA, and even QB had were the will to win and do whatever it took to do it. Outside of the freshmen who on this roster might have those qualities. Tom Allen has said many times that people who say leaders are born are 100% wrong. You have to find the guys that are capable of being a leader and then teach them how to lead. 

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