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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

UCLA is going to win the Pac10 and be a tournament team under Cronin at least. Sure it was embarrassing the Cal offer but they still are sitting better at coach and team then us.

I'm purely talking about if we are going to try and hit a home run, you don't go out and offer 70% of their current salary.  Or in UCLA's case, 15%.  I've been a long fan of Cronin.  He can coach ball.  Now we are seeing what he can do with talent.  

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3 minutes ago, southsidehoosier said:

Wonder if that makes IU more or less appealing to Beard

I said before last year there is no way Beard would go to IU because of RMK.  With RMK coming back it might have softened a little bit.  saying that I have heard that the only job he would leave TT for is UT.  He is from Texas and wants to stay in the state.  That is why after accepting the UNLV job he backed out to take the TT job.

I just tink hiring away a coach from their current job is harder today than it use to be because coaches worry more about culture than just money.  That is why guys like Mark Few has stayed at Gonzaga over leaving for a bigger job.  If you prove you can win where you at why go to a place like IU where you will be under pressure from day 1 to win.

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16 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Oats would be my worst nightmare because he is purely about analytics. He wants just 3's and layups.  Here are the percentages of how their points are scored

Points in the lane 43%

From 3's 36%

From the line 19%

Mid range 2%

We are all entitled to our opinions, and I respect yours, but the only numbers (on court) I care about W's and L's.  I don't care how we get there.  

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Just like I said after the Texas game. I'll say the same thing now. When the season is done I'll evaluate things.

Was having breakfast with my nearing 80 year old aunt this morning. She tends to keep things simple. 3-16 from 3 and 16-29 from FT line...not to mention how many front ends we missed. I know there are several ingredients in play here for the message board crowd...recruiting, types of recruits, coaching strategy....all the usual suspects, etc... 

At it's core we just can't shoot. At all. Made shots cover up plenty of coaching errors. Shoot Mike Davis wasn't some genius...but he had TC, KH, DF at his disposal.

Should Archie be let go? If I'm Dolson I find out TJD's intentions. If he's coming back I bring Archie back and I'm telling Archie to move heaven and earth to find 2 shooters. If TJD leaves...Dolson might make the call to go a different direction because the number of eligible transfers this off season will be in the hundreds. A first year coach who could make a juicy roster real quick if people decide to leave.

Frustrated as he-- right now. Big picture I really have no clue. Near term....kids and staff have to get back to work. That's all we can do right now I guess.

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10 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Tom Allen didn't say anyone can be a leader...Just that they can be made...You can name leaders all day and twice on Sunday, but good leaders are harder to find...We found one in Tom Allen...

As I said, only certain people "get it." 

Correct you are making my point for me. We picked a bad leader in CAM and he has in picking HIS team

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8 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

with the right hire, the people won't care. Optics are optics

It isn’t the people it’s the other administrators, the professors, it’s the behind the lines on ESPN...interviewing kids that their programs are being shut down, professors losing jobs etc etc while the head coach at IU gets 10 million to buzz off and then another 10 million for new coach to buy out his contract and first year salary. Once the media and everyone starts up all that stuff and it’s all directed at the president and AD etc they won’t be able to survive that kind of attack and press pushing for their removal. Activist students and others would be on campus protesting it just would look awful. I don’t see them taking that chance in the current culture we are in right now.

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Just now, Billingsley99 said:

Correct you are making my point for me. We picked a bad leader in CAM and he has in picking HIS team

Was he a "bad leader" at Dayton?

It's not something that wavers much...

I'm not ready to say that he indeed is a bad leader...IU certainly presents different circumstances, but with the team and on the court, it's not THAT much different...

And no one can say circumstances (call them excuses if you will) haven't played a role...

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I'm beyond frustrated as well, and I've gone back and forth lately on how I feel... but I stand by that it's probably still worthwhile to wait until the end of the season to have these conversations... but I think either this year or next year we are going to have to simply start winning some of these games and have some sort of "breakthrough" in order for me to be satisfied.

The whole thing is kind of odd. Each year so far has shown improvements with our Offense, our Defense, and even our overall record... but something still isn't clicking. I still hope that Archie can be the guy, but results have not been encouraging.

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1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

Was he a "bad leader" at Dayton?

It's not something that wavers much...

I'm not ready to say that he indeed is a bad leader...IU certainly presents different circumstances, but with the team and on the court, it's not THAT much different...

And no one can say circumstances (call them excuses if you will) haven't played a role...

I can agree with that. Like others have said everyone has won at Dayton. 

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15 hours ago, Hoosier0908! said:

We are in agreement. But, Archie gets year five because there isn’t a glaring option that’s better, not because he deserves more time. 

There are 100 better options you just dont know until the job is open. Glass is gone so you hope for someone better than a mid major flavor of the month that was what Archie was.

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1 minute ago, Indykev said:

There are 100 better options you just dont know until the job is open. Glass is gone so you hope for someone better than a mid major flavor of the month that was what Archie was.

To classify Archie as a “mid major flavor of the month” isn’t fair. He was at the top of many lists for several years for many smart people. 

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14 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

The administration is afraid of another controversial coach. What IU needs to understand is this, they are a State School and without a productive Basketball Program the University would be an afterthought.  Indiana University needs a successful Basketball program to be relevant.

Yeah, they have Kelly School of Business.  But what else? Business degrees are easy. 

IU gets a new prez in April so we have that going for us. My fear is Dolson has been around to long.

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9 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I can agree with that. Like others have said everyone has won at Dayton. 

Yes, but not nearly to the expectations we radical Hoosier fans have... ;) 

And that's a fair argument...I think a lot of mid major guys have the ability to excel at the mid major level, but fail at the P6 schools, and the blue-blood schools in particular...

Successful coaching depends on many things...And the great ones are rare indeed...they can normally overcome most of the obstacles and still succeed...

So a question out of all of this...Let's assume that IU finishes the year somewhere in the vicinity of .500...

What kind of showing would it take next year for him to keep his job in your eyes?

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I just think their is a disconnect between the players and Archie.  I have been trying to figure out what is missing in this program and it is hard to put your finger on it.  It just doesn't seem this team plays for their coach or something just doesn't look right.  I watch a lot of other college basketball games and there is just something different watching our team play.  Maybe I just pay more attention to our games but it just seems like they just don't feel comfortable out on the court.

To me it looks like Archie micro manages every aspect of the game and don't let the players play with any freedom.  He says he wants to play fast but every possession we are looking over to the sidelines so you can't play fast doing that.  this is the problem of college basketball because coaches don't trust their players.

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6 hours ago, jblaz13 said:

If you're wondering what point I might be trying to imply, 

it is merely that the timing doesn't appear to be able to get much worse for potemtially shelling bonuses , raising the pay,  and replacing departed  football staff while considering and amassing resources needed to do another buyout housecleaning of the basketball staff .

Then make a clear obvious move up the perceived coaching name value ladder as some have alluded directly to here .

I just worry about the costs of one coming at the expense of the other without anything coming in at the gates.

 

The buyout wouldnt come from dept. funds. Still being 10 million, Archie will get year 5.

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29 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Just like I said after the Texas game. I'll say the same thing now. When the season is done I'll evaluate things.

Was having breakfast with my nearing 80 year old aunt this morning. She tends to keep things simple. 3-16 from 3 and 16-29 from FT line...not to mention how many front ends we missed. I know there are several ingredients in play here for the message board crowd...recruiting, types of recruits, coaching strategy....all the usual suspects, etc... 

At it's core we just can't shoot. At all. Made shots cover up plenty of coaching errors. Shoot Mike Davis wasn't some genius...but he had TC, KH, DF at his disposal.

Should Archie be let go? If I'm Dolson I find out TJD's intentions. If he's coming back I bring Archie back and I'm telling Archie to move heaven and earth to find 2 shooters. If TJD leaves...Dolson might make the call to go a different direction because the number of eligible transfers this off season will be in the hundreds. A first year coach who could make a juicy roster real quick if people decide to leave.

Frustrated as he-- right now. Big picture I really have no clue. Near term....kids and staff have to get back to work. That's all we can do right now I guess.

On the bright side of things, it appears your screen name won't need changed for several years to come.  :coffee:

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2 hours ago, HoosierAlice said:

I would say Indiana's next coach needs to come from this list:

Top 27 College Basketball Coaches

27.  Rick Barnes

26. Frank Martin

25. Bruce Weber

24. Lon Kruger

23. Mark Turgeon

22. Kelvin Sampson

21. Chris Mack

20. Steve Prohm

19. Jim Boheim

18. Will Wade

17. Greg Gard

16. Leonard Hamilton

15. Porter Moser

14. Eric Musselman

13. Bruce Pearl

12. Coach K

11. Sean Miller

10. Chris Beard

9.  Matt Painter

8.  Tom Izzo

7. John Calipari

6. Tony Bennett

5.  Dana Altman

4. Mark Few

3. Bill Self

2. Roy Williams

1. Jay Wright

Prohm at 20? IA ST 2-7, 0-5 conference 

Weber 5-8, 1-4

 

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36 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I said before last year there is no way Beard would go to IU because of RMK.  With RMK coming back it might have softened a little bit.  saying that I have heard that the only job he would leave TT for is UT.  He is from Texas and wants to stay in the state.  That is why after accepting the UNLV job he backed out to take the TT job.

I just tink hiring away a coach from their current job is harder today than it use to be because coaches worry more about culture than just money.  That is why guys like Mark Few has stayed at Gonzaga over leaving for a bigger job.  If you prove you can win where you at why go to a place like IU where you will be under pressure from day 1 to win.

I don't know.  That seems to be dramatic. It's not like TT didn't pay him or he cannot get his culture into IU's program.  Most like a challenge and  pressure of succeeding at a big time program.   He is his own person. He doesn't seem to be the type to hold any kind of a silly grudge.   Seems any prior IU player who played for Knight that was considered could have that same grudge if it were to exist. I think if he wants to move to big time program, he would consider IU.  Like Few in the Northwest, I think being around his family is what would keep him in Texas.  I believe his fiance played volleyball at TT but not sure and his daughters are in Texas.  Anyway, it is probably about timing if he wants that kind of opportunity.

 

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2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Prohm at 20? IA ST 2-7, 0-5 conference 

Weber 5-8, 1-4

 

I went to church with Prohm...great guy and a good coach but to me he wasn’t a Cronin or Godfried or Kennedy...he is learning like several of those guys that winning at a power 5 level is super super tough. Took over a Talented team but I’m not sure he has the chops to win big. Being a big fish in a small pond is much easier than a small fish in a big pond. I think Archie is learning that. 

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7 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

I don't know.  That seems to be dramatic. It's not like TT didn't pay him or he cannot get his culture into IU's program.  Most like a challenge and  pressure of succeeding at a big time program.   He is his own person. He doesn't seem to be the type to hold any kind of a silly grudge.   Seems any prior IU player who played for Knight that was considered could have that same grudge if it were to exist. I think if he wants to move to big time program, he would consider IU.  Like Few in the Northwest, I think being around his family is what would keep him in Texas.  I believe his fiance played volleyball at TT but not sure and his daughters are in Texas.  Anyway, it is probably about timing if he wants that kind of opportunity.

 

Family and life goals. Can he make his family happy and can he achieve his goal of winning a NC where he is. Does IU afford him a better chance at that success? Hard to say. 

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Here's where I am at with this program....

For buyout purposes, I just don't see Archie getting fired this year unless it's like we don't make the NIT bad. Too much $ and getting a new coach with everything that's going on rn doesn't seem like the smartest move. However, I've seen enough to know Archie Miller isn't "the guy" ( I actually vividly remember saying after the Rutgers road loss in CAM's 2nd year). At our peak w/CAM we are a bubble team who never has a legit shot at a conference title, let alone a national championship. I think realistically we need to hire someone that 

Here's my list of guys I think would realistically consider the job/make less $ than Archie/coach at a school w/less resources and national recognition.

-John Beilein (resume speaks for itself. I know he's old but probably should have been coaching here all along). 

-Rick Pitino (I know his past makes him a slime ball but look at the FBI outcome- kids don't care as long as the coach wins and gets kids to the NBA. Not to mention, not like the Miller brothers have the best reputation either...)

-Leonard Hamilton- Makes less $ than Archie, understands and respects the IU brand. I like what I see from FSU and he seems like a great recruiter.

-Lon Kruger- Oklahoma hasn't been great recently but they've still been relevant more recently than us. He's developed guys like Trey Young, Buddy Heild, etc.

-Dan Fife- Great background w/ assisting Izzo. Obviously IU connection.

-Mike Miller- I think he's coaching HS right now, so would be a big step up. I think he's capable of being a good head coach. He was a fantastic recruiter for Memphis. Kids know and respect his name. He also knows how to shoot and im not worried about that being an issue with a roster he makes.

-Frank Martin- I know they haven't done well recently but he seems like a good coach and leader who can do well with IU resources.

-NBA assistant coach?- Wouldn't have a name right now but someone looking to get a head coach gig.

Guys who I would take in a heartbeat but would never:

Coach K, Cal, Izzo, Williams, Self, Beiheim, Few, Barnes, Altman, Bennett, Drew, Pearl, Beard, Wright, Huggins, Mack, 

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4 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said:

Here's where I am at with this program....

For buyout purposes, I just don't see Archie getting fired this year unless it's like we don't make the NIT bad. Too much $ and getting a new coach with everything that's going on rn doesn't seem like the smartest move. However, I've seen enough to know Archie Miller isn't "the guy" ( I actually vividly remember saying after the Rutgers road loss in CAM's 2nd year). At our peak w/CAM we are a bubble team who never has a legit shot at a conference title, let alone a national championship. I think realistically we need to hire someone that 

Here's my list of guys I think would realistically consider the job/make less $ than Archie/coach at a school w/less resources and national recognition.

-John Beilein (resume speaks for itself. I know he's old but probably should have been coaching here all along). 

-Rick Pitino (I know his past makes him a slime ball but look at the FBI outcome- kids don't care as long as the coach wins and gets kids to the NBA. Not to mention, not like the Miller brothers have the best reputation either...)

-Leonard Hamilton- Makes less $ than Archie, understands and respects the IU brand. I like what I see from FSU and he seems like a great recruiter.

-Lon Kruger- Oklahoma hasn't been great recently but they've still been relevant more recently than us. He's developed guys like Trey Young, Buddy Heild, etc.

-Dan Fife- Great background w/ assisting Izzo. Obviously IU connection.

-Mike Miller- I think he's coaching HS right now, so would be a big step up. I think he's capable of being a good head coach. He was a fantastic recruiter for Memphis. Kids know and respect his name. He also knows how to shoot and im not worried about that being an issue with a roster he makes.

-Frank Martin- I know they haven't done well recently but he seems like a good coach and leader who can do well with IU resources.

-NBA assistant coach?- Wouldn't have a name right now but someone looking to get a head coach gig.

Guys who I would take in a heartbeat but would never:

Coach K, Cal, Izzo, Williams, Self, Beiheim, Few, Barnes, Altman, Bennett, Drew, Pearl, Beard, Wright, Huggins, Mack, 

Great list. I could see Barnes, Altman, Drew, Pearl or Beard saying yes.

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