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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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1 minute ago, Feathery said:

Damn autographs. Lol. If he fails I think it will be because of ego or false confidence in himself. He seems to be controlling the offense way too much. He needs to stop having the players look over for a play and let them just play. Let the PG’s call the play, don’t micromanage the crap out of the game. Show the players you have confidence in them and they may surprise him by playing with some confidence. The ability is there to be a much better shooting/offensive team. The confidence is not. 

I don't disagree with your point about the offense and letting the players play with more confidence and looser, though I'd add Franklin looks pretty loose and confident, so does Galloway at times and TJD, maybe he just doesn't have the right players (which is on him).

But I think you're making a leap to extrapolate that into some point about Archie trying to overcompensate some fake bravado or because of ego. He's just a coach over-coaching his offense. Like 98% of the coaches in college basketball do that. 

But I completely agree with you, something has been off with the teams offensive confidence and shooting since he got here. 

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Just now, Bustout said:

If IU didn’t hire him, he would’ve been at O$U ... big football school, but also big hoops too (more so than any SEC school).   
 

if/when he turns it around and they start winning, it’ll be interesting to see how his interactions with the media become.   He always seems fine on Don’s radio show.  
 

get TJD back next season - and we should find out as they should be near top if he comes back.  

We have TJD now. He is playing at an All-American level and we are still not near the top. We would need another player or two to make a leap like Armaan did this season. It’s not out of the realm that Archie could turn it around but he will need a lot to go his way. And for the love of all things please hit the transfer portal. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I don't disagree with your point about the offense and letting the players play with more confidence and looser, though I'd add Franklin looks pretty loose and confident, so does Galloway at times and TJD, maybe he just doesn't have the right players (which is on him).

But I think you're making a leap to extrapolate that into some point about Archie trying to overcompensate some fake bravado or because of ego. He's just a coach over-coaching his offense. Like 98% of the coaches in college basketball do that. 

But I completely agree with you, something has been off with the teams offensive confidence and shooting since he got here. 

Maybe you’re right. When I see a guy who says all the right things and then a team plays as poorly as they do.... only can make assumptions to what the reasons are. 

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1 minute ago, Bowhunter said:

Archie did like any of us would try and do. He wanted to better himself and his family. It’s administration’s fault if they chose the wrong person. I’m sure Archie believes I’m himself, but sometimes that’s not enough. 

I don’t blame Archie’s motivations as I agree with you that he wanted to better his career, family etc.

I also don’t blame the administration as those that follow the minutia of mid-major, and other head coach candidates, were nearly universal in praising the hire. 

I also don’t think Archie proves we should not hire another mid-major coach. Mid-major coaches, like nearly any other hire, are a “risk” but many of them turn out to be great power 5 coaches. Beilen, Donovan, RMK, Beard etc etc are examples of coaches that successfully moved from mid-major jobs to power 5 success. On the other side of the coin Groce, Lickliter, Dan Monson etc were among the “next great thing” mid-major coaches that bombed in their first power 5 jobs. I really want Archie to succeed but unless things change quickly his results so far are leaning towards the Groces of the world rather than the successful coaches.
 

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My father in law watches more college basketball than anyone I know. He is not an IU fan he played high school with 2 guys that played for Denny Crum at UL. When IU hired CAM he said it was a terrible hire. Just did not feel it would work out. I argued many times that we got a hard nosed coach that understands what it means to be the coach at Indiana.  He keeps reminding me who was right, I want CAM to be the guy but it's just not going to happen. I hate starting over but I don't see us getting much better

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Definitely a difficult fork in the road to be on for me personally. I want Archie to succeed, but at the same time know what IU basketball is supposed to mean and know what level it’s supposed to be at. I feel as if he has had enough time to show what his teams are made of. I’m cautious in saying I want him to succeed this year knowing if it saves him then I don’t want next year to be a disappointment and we wish we could have/would have acted sooner. If he turns it around the rest of this year then great, I’ll be happy for him, but it’s hard to say it’s a catapult moment into next season. It’s hard to draw a line in the sand knowing I’ve got one foot on each side. One side being I want Archie to be the guy, and the other side being I want to see if we can get a home run hire because Archie has hit his peak. What’s scary is just because he may happen to get us into the tournament this year, doesn’t necessarily mean he can be our guy to get us where we SHOULD be. It’s a tricky/odd feeling wanting Archie to be the guy and hoping he turns it around, yet not minding if he doesn’t at all. 

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16 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

Definitely a difficult fork in the road to be on for me personally. I want Archie to succeed, but at the same time know what IU basketball is supposed to mean and know what level it’s supposed to be at. I feel as if he has had enough time to show what his teams are made of. I’m cautious in saying I want him to succeed this year knowing if it saves him then I don’t want next year to be a disappointment and we wish we could have/would have acted sooner. If he turns it around the rest of this year then great, I’ll be happy for him, but it’s hard to say it’s a catapult moment into next season. It’s hard to draw a line in the sand knowing I’ve got one foot on each side. One side being I want Archie to be the guy, and the other side being I want to see if we can get a home run hire because Archie has hit his peak. What’s scary is just because he may happen to get us into the tournament this year, doesn’t necessarily mean he can be our guy to get us where we SHOULD be. It’s a tricky/odd feeling wanting Archie to be the guy and hoping he turns it around, yet not minding if he doesn’t at all. 

Interesting post.  It made me think many of us are likely in this “line in the sand” perspective, where we want IU to succeed on one side and want Archie to be the man on the other.  I wonder, on the Archie side, is it because us fans are truly on the fence that he’s the coach this program needs, or because we are just tired of starting over.  If I’m being honest, I know where I stand.

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IMO when Crean was fired. I thought the returning players under the right guy could get Green and Durham to play under control and stop turning the ball over. Didn’t happen, I thought a new coach could get Justin Smith to play hard every game. Didn’t happen. I thought adding Langford an Rob P, the offense  would click! Didn’t happen. 
So I was hopeful we could turn this around fast, not happening. I sure wish we would have gotten Chris Mack! Louisville picked him same year we got Archie. 
So my point is you don’t know about a new coach  until their team takes the court! Do his players buy into him. I don’t think Archie’s do! So maybe it is time to try again. 

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7 minutes ago, OLDIUFAN said:

IMO when Crean was fired. I thought the returning players under the right guy could get Green and Durham to play under control and stop turning the ball over. Didn’t happen, I thought a new coach could get Justin Smith to play hard every game. Didn’t happen. I thought adding Langford an Rob P, the offense  would click! Didn’t happen. 
So I was hopeful we could turn this around fast, not happening. I sure wish we would have gotten Chris Mack! Louisville picked him same year we got Archie. 
So my point is you don’t know about a new coach  until their team takes the court! Do his players buy into him. I don’t think Archie’s do! So maybe it is time to try again. 

Great points. I ask why are players not buying in? I can't put my finger on it but something has been off the whole time IMO

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26 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Great points. I ask why are players not buying in? I can't put my finger on it but something has been off the whole time IMO

Something has been off for 25 years.  LOL

I have decided to let the chips fall were they may.  Being so pissed about our b-ball team is not good for my health.

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4 minutes ago, rico said:

Something has been off for 25 years.  LOL

I have decided to let the chips fall were they may.  Being so pissed about our b-ball team is not good for my health.

I wish I still did get mad. Apathy started setting in 2 years ago and it's gotten worse. I try to watch and too many times I turn it off. Even the first 2 years of CAM I watched every second even in a blowout but now not so much. That's what hurts for me. Not having the opportunity to watch great IU basketball with my wife and kids. With Vic and Cody,  Jordy and Yogi CWAT, IU was must watch. My wife arranged her schedule of shopping or whatever around IU games. I miss that. Hopefully when i have grandkids I can enjoy it with them.

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9 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Any chance you would want to adopt a family of 5 I hear Costa Rica is nice this time and all time of the year. 

Your family would be welcome down to the compound anytime.  I give you my word.  I'd say outside of being 30 minutes in the wrong directions of Indy, you and I could easily find ourselves being buddies if we crossed the right paths.  

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3 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Your family would be welcome down to the compound anytime.  I give you my word.  I'd say outside of being 30 minutes in the wrong directions of Indy, you and I could easily find ourselves being buddies if we crossed the right paths.  

I appreciate it. I am in Indy 5 days a week maybe one day we grab a bite and discuss Faith, Family, and IU basketball 3 things near and dear to our hearts. 

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53 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I appreciate it. I am in Indy 5 days a week maybe one day we grab a bite and discuss Faith, Family, and IU basketball 3 things near and dear to our hearts. 

We should.  When I leave the firehouse I'm usually relieving my wife and watching little dude so she can go to work(weekdays).

Let's pm and figure it out 

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2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

I appreciate it. I am in Indy 5 days a week maybe one day we grab a bite and discuss Faith, Family, and IU basketball 3 things near and dear to our hearts. 

 

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

We should.  When I leave the firehouse I'm usually relieving my wife and watching little dude so she can go to work(weekdays).

Let's pm and figure it out 

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12 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

I wish I still did get mad. Apathy started setting in 2 years ago and it's gotten worse. I try to watch and too many times I turn it off. Even the first 2 years of CAM I watched every second even in a blowout but now not so much. That's what hurts for me. Not having the opportunity to watch great IU basketball with my wife and kids. With Vic and Cody,  Jordy and Yogi CWAT, IU was must watch. My wife arranged her schedule of shopping or whatever around IU games. I miss that. Hopefully when i have grandkids I can enjoy it with them.

I feel the same. I watch a little bit turn it off or have it dvr and decide if it’s worth my time to watch. I used to look forward to IU games.  I don’t get mad anymore I expect they are going to lose or disappoint.  It’s just sad how the program has turned out. It’s sad that plenty feel this same way about the program. I hope one day we get the right hire and IU starts winning consistently again. I miss the enjoyment of watching my favorite team play. 

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On 1/18/2021 at 9:14 PM, BGleas said:

I don't disagree with your point about the offense and letting the players play with more confidence and looser, though I'd add Franklin looks pretty loose and confident, so does Galloway at times and TJD, maybe he just doesn't have the right players (which is on him).

But I think you're making a leap to extrapolate that into some point about Archie trying to overcompensate some fake bravado or because of ego. He's just a coach over-coaching his offense. Like 98% of the coaches in college basketball do that. 

But I completely agree with you, something has been off with the teams offensive confidence and shooting since he got here. 

CAM has publicly stated his scheme of creating more scoring by limiting turnovers, and smarter shots. His various comments reflect he values shooting, but from what I’ve heard him say and how he run the offense so far, I see him devaluing the 3-ball. I’m not articulating this well and don’t have his comments handy to reference, but I think the lack of confidence we see is a lack of freedom to shoot, a focus on getting the best shot (not a bad thing itself) at the expense of opening up the arc — and I do think he reigns in certain guys. You know I’m a Hunter fan, think about how Hunter’s game has been growing while he says CAM is showing confidence in him. 

In a way this reminds me of RMK particularly in his later years at IU — He often would yank guys and scream at them whenever they took a shot he didn’t like, and the teams began to swing the ball around in his motion offense until the end of the shot clock because guys were just scared to be that guy. I remember multiple games like that, it got painful to watch. 

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