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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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37 minutes ago, Rogermci said:

OK.  Post #1000.  Please lay this to rest.  This is crazy.

It’s really not. Winning one game on the road wasn’t the terms of his hiring. He has yet to achieve anything worthy of his job other than baby steps.

Like you, I would like to see this guy put it together.

Think about where this program would be if CAM can get something going and then the North Carolina’s and Dukes are on a coaching search because of retirement. Or Kentucky because they SUCK! :)

I’ve been behind this coach since his hiring. But, his body of work is taking shape. I like the intensity that he shows glimpses of. I’ve heard good things by those close to the program. But he’s got work to do. 

Let’s revisit this a bit later. It’s just for discussion anyway. The heavy hitters gotta get pissy before Dolson would pull the trigger.

 

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3 hours ago, Inequality said:

It’s really not. Winning one game on the road wasn’t the terms of his hiring. He has yet to achieve anything worthy of his job other than baby steps.

Like you, I would like to see this guy put it together.

Think about where this program would be if CAM can get something going and then the North Carolina’s and Dukes are on a coaching search because of retirement. Or Kentucky because they SUCK! :)

I’ve been behind this coach since his hiring. But, his body of work is taking shape. I like the intensity that he shows glimpses of. I’ve heard good things by those close to the program. But he’s got work to do. 

Let’s revisit this a bit later. It’s just for discussion anyway. The heavy hitters gotta get pissy before Dolson would pull the trigger.

 

Were ALL waiting for the program to take off more than a few upsets here and there but thats where were at currently!!!  Every time I write off Coach Archie Miller he surprises me with a win out of nowhere that nobody saw coming!  Frustration continues that if you can do it once, why not more often?

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2 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

Were ALL waiting for the program to take off more than a few upsets here and there but thats where were at currently!!!  Every time I write off Coach Archie Miller he surprises me with a win out of nowhere that nobody saw coming!  Frustration continues that if you can do it once, why not more often?

Oh I’m with you but Crean did the same thing.

When your body of work is subpar then you squeeze out that one win and show a glimpse of what could be, is that enough to buy you more time? It was for Crean for much too long.

Recruiting has already fallen off. There is more to the job than just one win or one loss. I’m not saying fire him now, I’m just more wide eyed  than I used to be. Time is not on the side of this program.

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3 hours ago, Inequality said:

Oh I’m with you but Crean did the same thing.

When your body of work is subpar then you squeeze out that one win and show a glimpse of what could be, is that enough to buy you more time? It was for Crean for much too long.

Recruiting has already fallen off. There is more to the job than just one win or one loss. I’m not saying fire him now, I’m just more wide eyed  than I used to be. Time is not on the side of this program.

Wrong...wrong, wrong.

Crean did not do the same thing. Crean had alienated the high school coaches in the state. No evidence that CAM has done so.

Crean did not value scholarships, hence the offers to guys that had no business wearing the candy stripes. CAM is much more selective in his offers. 

Even some of the high level kids Crean brought or tried to bring in were reaches. Remember "The Movement"? One kid never made it to campus and another smoked his way out of the program. We had a kid hit one of his own teammates with his car after a night out drinking at the bars.  I cannot remember hearing of any issues, not one, with kids that CAM has brought into the program. 

Hard to say that recruiting has fallen off. We have what appears to be a great pickup in Stewart who meets a glaring need for shooting. We have a kid in Ducomb who is under the radar, imo, and outplayed the more glorified PUke recruit when they went head to head. We have a 5 star pg who just needs to mature and get stronger, but looks every bit the part of a distributor. We have toughness in this last recruiting class with Galloway and Geronimo. 

Your narrative is an easy one as it fits the piling on that this program and coach has taken the past week. But this coaching staff is nowhere similar to anything Crean represented. Not at all.

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13 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Wrong...wrong, wrong.

Crean did not do the same thing. Crean had alienated the high school coaches in the state. No evidence that CAM has done so.

Crean did not value scholarships, hence the offers to guys that had no business wearing the candy stripes. CAM is much more selective in his offers. 

Even some of the high level kids Crean brought or tried to bring in were reaches. Remember "The Movement"? One kid never made it to campus and another smoked his way out of the program. We had a kid hit one of his own teammates with his car after a night out drinking at the bars.  I cannot remember hearing of any issues, not one, with kids that CAM has brought into the program. 

Hard to say that recruiting has fallen off. We have what appears to be a great pickup in Stewart who meets a glaring need for shooting. We have a kid in Ducomb who is under the radar, imo, and outplayed the more glorified PUke recruit when they went head to head. We have a 5 star pg who just needs to mature and get stronger, but looks every bit the part of a distributor. We have toughness in this last recruiting class with Galloway and Geronimo. 

Your narrative is an easy one as it fits the piling on that this program and coach has taken the past week. But this coaching staff is nowhere similar to anything Crean represented. Not at all.

There are high school coaches that I know if that are starting to question why CAM isn’t offering and really targeting more shooters from the state. That’s a fact and until IU starts winning then there will be even more questions coming from local coaches. CAM hasn’t alienated them but they are starting to question his coaching, recruiting, and development tactics. 

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3 hours ago, Inequality said:

Oh I’m with you but Crean did the same thing.

When your body of work is subpar then you squeeze out that one win and show a glimpse of what could be, is that enough to buy you more time? It was for Crean for much too long.

Recruiting has already fallen off. There is more to the job than just one win or one loss. I’m not saying fire him now, I’m just more wide eyed  than I used to be. Time is not on the side of this program.

Have we had some recruiting misses, particularly in this upcoming class? Yes. But it’s probably not fair to say it’s “fallen off” which suggests a dramatic drop off. Lander reclassified out of next years class which obviously would make it appear much stronger. We have two seniors on the team currently so it’s also not as if we were ever expecting this to be a huge class. We also appear to be about to get a commitment for the 2022 class from a 4 star in state guard CJ Gunn who has a sweet stroke. Idk. I get the disappointment, but it seems like you have a pretty “glass half empty” perspective.

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One win doesn’t make Archie the savior of IU basketball, nor does the losses so far this season make him a dud.  His total body of work needs to be considered.  If anything last nights win IMO proves this team has been underachieving this year and not meeting they’re full potential.  Now’s the time for Coach to show he can get this team to replicate the same success over a longer set of games and finish the season strong.

I personally have always said I expect coach to be back next year.  But there is nothing wrong with not being ok with the overall body of work so far.  The Purdue game was a huge step back, last night was a huge step back in the right direction.  Let’s see where we stand at the end of the year but nothing wrong with not being ok with mediocrity and nothing wrong with being confident Coach and the team are on the right track.

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36 minutes ago, iuthruandthru said:

One win doesn’t make Archie the savior of IU basketball, nor does the losses so far this season make him a dud.  His total body of work needs to be considered.  If anything last nights win IMO proves this team has been underachieving this year and not meeting they’re full potential.  Now’s the time for Coach to show he can get this team to replicate the same success over a longer set of games and finish the season strong.

I personally have always said I expect coach to be back next year.  But there is nothing wrong with not being ok with the overall body of work so far.  The Purdue game was a huge step back, last night was a huge step back in the right direction.  Let’s see where we stand at the end of the year but nothing wrong with not being ok with mediocrity and nothing wrong with being confident Coach and the team are on the right track.

Problem with this thread is that it is titled "It's time...Fire Archie Miller". So that doesn't allow for "total body of work to be considered" it says he should be fired and implies he should be fired now (it's time) which makes it a joke.

The Turdue loss was beyond disappointing and people overreacted like they always do and last night's win was huge and people are overreacting like they always do.

I agree with you 100% in the bolded parts of your response, but believe that those points are reasons this thread should die or at least the title changed to Archie Miller's Seat Temperature

Sitroom's Hotseat | Brunswick

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1 hour ago, cybergates said:

Problem with this thread is that it is titled "It's time...Fire Archie Miller". So that doesn't allow for "total body of work to be considered" it says he should be fired and implies he should be fired now (it's time) which makes it a joke.

The Turdue loss was beyond disappointing and people overreacted like they always do and last night's win was huge and people are overreacting like they always do.

I agree with you 100% in the bolded parts of your response, but believe that those points are reasons this thread should die or at least the title changed to Archie Miller's Seat Temperature

Sitroom's Hotseat | Brunswick

Never read a book by its cover?

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4 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Wrong...wrong, wrong.

Crean did not do the same thing. Crean had alienated the high school coaches in the state. No evidence that CAM has done so.

Crean did not value scholarships, hence the offers to guys that had no business wearing the candy stripes. CAM is much more selective in his offers. 

Even some of the high level kids Crean brought or tried to bring in were reaches. Remember "The Movement"? One kid never made it to campus and another smoked his way out of the program. We had a kid hit one of his own teammates with his car after a night out drinking at the bars.  I cannot remember hearing of any issues, not one, with kids that CAM has brought into the program. 

Hard to say that recruiting has fallen off. We have what appears to be a great pickup in Stewart who meets a glaring need for shooting. We have a kid in Ducomb who is under the radar, imo, and outplayed the more glorified PUke recruit when they went head to head. We have a 5 star pg who just needs to mature and get stronger, but looks every bit the part of a distributor. We have toughness in this last recruiting class with Galloway and Geronimo. 

Your narrative is an easy one as it fits the piling on that this program and coach has taken the past week. But this coaching staff is nowhere similar to anything Crean represented. Not at all.

 

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3 hours ago, cybergates said:

Problem with this thread is that it is titled "It's time...Fire Archie Miller". So that doesn't allow for "total body of work to be considered" it says he should be fired and implies he should be fired now (it's time) which makes it a joke.

The Turdue loss was beyond disappointing and people overreacted like they always do and last night's win was huge and people are overreacting like they always do.

I agree with you 100% in the bolded parts of your response, but believe that those points are reasons this thread should die or at least the title changed to Archie Miller's Seat Temperature

Sitroom's Hotseat | Brunswick

I tried to click the like button a little harder to emphasize my liking this. 

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2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Let's not overstate the recruiting misses in the upcoming class. For all intents and purposes our class next year is a 2-man class of two top 60 guys. Is that really what we are complaining about now? 

 

EDIT: Plus a transfer that averaged 19 PPG at his last stop. 

Okay, this may be a dumb question, but you are getting me excited... 2 guys in the top 60?  I thought Duncomb was a 75-90 range and thought he was our only one? 

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2 hours ago, DC2345 said:

Which is stupid but whatever people like to tell themselves is fine with me. 

It's not stupid, he was part of that class when he committed and reclassified. You're essentially punishing Archie for getting Lander and Stewart to campus early by not including them in that. 

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6 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

Okay, this may be a dumb question, but you are getting me excited... 2 guys in the top 60?  I thought Duncomb was a 75-90 range and thought he was our only one? 

You're correct on Duncomb being in that range, my bad. Lander is a top 60 recruit for that class. He was in that class when he committed p. We shouldn't hold it against Archie as a recruiting failure that a guy reclassified. 

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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

You're correct on Duncomb being in that range, my bad. Lander is a top 60 recruit for that class. He was in that class when he committed p. We shouldn't hold it against Archie as a recruiting failure that a guy reclassified. 

You can't count someone currently playing for IU as part of next year's class. He would've been part of it but he reclassified. Reclassification means just just that, his class changed so he was no longer part of the 2021 class. He graduated from HS in 2020 (not 2021) and enrolled at it in 2020 (not 2021). Therefore, he was the class of 2020.

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42 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

You can't count someone currently playing for IU as part of next year's class. He would've been part of it but he reclassified. Reclassification means just just that, his class changed so he was no longer part of the 2021 class. He graduated from HS in 2020 (not 2021) and enrolled at it in 2020 (not 2021). Therefore, he was the class of 2020.

I'm not counting him I'm that class from a rankings perspective, but if we are talking about Archie's recruiting for 2021 it's an incredibly important piece of context. My initial response was to the notion that his recruiting is 'slipping' when that is patently not true. It's no different than when people pretend we would have missed the tournament last season and say Archie has never made the tournament. 

 

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6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

You're correct on Duncomb being in that range, my bad. Lander is a top 60 recruit for that class. He was in that class when he committed p. We shouldn't hold it against Archie as a recruiting failure that a guy reclassified. 

I gotcha.  I honestly thought I had missed that we had two.  I don't really disagree that Lander can be considered in that class.  I hope so much that he turns out to be even close to what he was ranked before he reclassed.  Personally I think he will.  I don't know why exactly.  Not much to base that on from what we've seen, but for once in my life I am optimistic.  

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5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm not counting him I'm that class from a rankings perspective, but if we are talking about Archie's recruiting for 2021 it's an incredibly important piece of context. My initial response was to the notion that his recruiting is 'slipping' when that is patently not true. It's no different than when people pretend we would have missed the tournament last season and say Archie has never made the tournament. 

 

One of the many things that keeps my head spinning is the defensive pessimist instinct keeps saying if TJD leaves (yes, i know he's not ready.  yes, i know what the draft boards say), it's hard to see why we'll be better next year only adding Duncomb and Stewart.  The fan in me is starting to let myself believe he won't leave and that Lander will be ready and basically all of the young ones will progress.  

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1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

One of the many things that keeps my head spinning is the defensive pessimist instinct keeps saying if TJD leaves (yes, i know he's not ready.  yes, i know what the draft boards say), it's hard to see why we'll be better next year only adding Duncomb and Stewart.  The fan in me is starting to let myself believe he won't leave and that Lander will be ready and basically all of the young ones will progress.  

This might sound weird, but I think our guards play better when TJD isn’t on the floor. I think next year’s team could be more balanced without him and I think that would be to our benefit. 

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