It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, ChiHoosier said:

I just want to hear who everyone believes the replacement for Archie will be.

Some up and coming mid major coach

[Cbp4IU]

Gotta hire the right coach this time around. I mean IU is overdue for an Excelling coach again. Please, please get the next hire right. If you fire Archie you gotta get it right. Personally, if this off season a coach you want is available you have to pull the trigger. If not then don’t. If next off-season nothing of an upgrade is available don’t feel the need to pull the trigger. Rather get it right then just hiring another dud. I don’t like Archie like most but. IU needs to get this next hire right. I don’t know whom that coach may be but bring us back to the glory days. Shoot, even get us to the NCAA tourney too! Please, please, please!!!

[Hoosier0908!]

Still, nobody is talking about him: Eric Musselman of Arkansas, formerly Nevada. The guy can COACH! He has spent time at nearly every level of basketball. And, being in his early 50s (I think), he is the guy that can be here for 15+ years. That’s who I get. Not Oats.

[5fouls]

Unscramble the letters to find out who are next coach should be.

Srad Btevens

Hint:  Don't strain yourself trying to figure it out.  

 

[NotIThatLives]

7 hours ago, IU Scott said:

He is the 10th or 1th highest paid coach.  The thing is that guys who it would take giving the huge money to is not available.

And at that time was like 6th or 7th in the nation.  

[NotIThatLives]

7 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

He’s going to get next year, but things are going to be worse after TJD leaves.  Yes, I know TJD’s not going to be drafted, but he’s made it pretty clear he’s leaving after two years no matter what.  And there’s not much of an incentive to come back here and continue to get embarrassed.  Tbh if/when TJD declares for the draft, Archie should really just be fired the next day.  Just playing out the string at that point.

I believe the team will be better when TJD leaves.  If he wasn't from up the road he would be getting absolutely devoured.  

[IUCrazy2]

6 hours ago, ChiHoosier said:

I just want to hear who everyone believes the replacement for Archie will be.

Pat Knight.

...

...

I kid.  I really don't know who the replacement would be at this point.  If I am a mid major coach who is being looked at as an up and comer, I would think long and hard before taking the IU job.  Miller was a pretty well thought of guy coming out of Dayton and this job has chewed him up.  The BIG is a very competitive league, you have 3 other D1 programs that have all seen the Top 25 in the not too distant past that you have to recruit against...and that is just in state.  Kentucky and Louisville are usually fighting you for the best kids from Indy to the south while Michigan State and Michigan are a threat in the northern part of the state.  Chicago is a recruiting ground for the entire country and Ohio State and Illinois are doing well enough that pulling kids from those states is more difficult.  You have a fanbase that can be an asset but the past 10 years have it either apathetic or prone to go negative fast.....

When Glass made this hire I think the consensus was that he had to get this one right because we were treading water.  Well, we are on our way to drowning.  The culture in the program just is not there anymore from where I sit.  The next hire is not going to be the answer for the future, he will be a bridge.  And I really think that backing the Brinks truck up to someone is not going to matter.  I don't leave a comfortable, well paying job to come to an insecure place like this...not for a little extra pay and not without some deep attachment to the school.  There are no big names like that (yeah Stevens was a fan back in the day, but I don't think he is interested...at all.)

The program is in trouble.  All these young kids that are not tuning in because the games and the program are just not fun are fans you don't have in 10 to 20 years.  The kids on campus right now that are not going to games (because they can't) are building habits that say that they don't need to be there.

[Leathernecks]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Unscramble the letters to find out who are next coach should be.

Srad Btevens

Hint:  Don't strain yourself trying to figure it out.  

 

Rads Beenvts?

Dars Stenbev?

Sadr St. Beven?

I guess we're going foreign with the next coach. 

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Leathernecks said:

Sadr St. Beven?

I guess we're going foreign with the next coach. 

This guy.  The dude has won 11 straight titles coaching Skelleftea in the Cass G Division of the Upper Swedish League.  Among his biggest victories was beating a team of former Purdue walk-ons in an exhibition game by the score of 53-52.  The game was decided when one of the Purdue players scooped up a loose ball with 2.7 seconds left and proceeded to score in the wrong basket. 

[Leathernecks]

10 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

This guy.  The dude has won 11 straight titles coaching Skelleftea in the Cass G Division of the Upper Swedish League.  Among his biggest victories was beating a team of former Purdue walk-ons in an exhibition game by the score of 53-52.  The game was decided when one of the Purdue players scooped up a loose ball with 2.7 seconds left and proceeded to score in the wrong basket. 

I'm on board!

[AxnJxn]

57 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

 I really don't know who the replacement would be at this point.  If I am a mid major coach who is being looked at as an up and comer, I would think long and hard before taking the IU job. 

I can't really agree with this, and I've seen it mentioned a number of times. The vast majority of coaches, especially those who are successful, are Type A personalities with a very high competitive drive. The IU job is a challenge, but we're not overly special - these results wouldn't be acceptable at a number of schools, and not just the blue bloods. Michigan. Michigan State. Illinois. OSU. Hell, even Purdue wouldn't accept these results, especially if they lost 8 in a row or whatever it is to their in state rival. 

Archie was a good hire at the time. He was young, had solid success at a mid major, and this was a logical step for him, and the hire made sense for IU as well. It hasn't worked out for whatever reason (at least at this point - I still think there's time for him to right the ship), but CAM isn't struggling here because of the job itself. Frankly, it seems like you can narrow this down to a lack of ability to shoot FTs - fix that, and we've got a handful more wins on the right side of the ledger.

I'm not sure I agree with firing CAM, at least not without seeing what happens next year, but this is still a very attractive job, and all of the elements are there for a coach to have big results. 

[BADGERVOL]

As down as I am on IU Hoops nothing changes with some of the key factors that has always bad this a blue blood program. Any coach knows the fanbase is rabid (it’s asleep largely now), the recruiting base is insanely good, it’s a nationally recognized program with deep history, boosters can step up, etc.

it forever will have things VERY few programs have.

[cybergates]

Teams in Kenpom's top 25 of Off and Def:

Baylor

Gonzaga

Michigan

Houston

Illinois

Alabama

Virginia

Wisconsin

Texas

We should definitely pursue Drew and Oats from this list if we have an opening. The rest are unlikely.

[dbmhoosier]

2 minutes ago, cybergates said:

Teams in Kenpom's top 25 of Off and Def:

Baylor

Gonzaga

Michigan

Houston

Illinois

Alabama

Virginia

Wisconsin

Texas

We should definitely pursue Drew and Oats from this list if we have an opening. The rest are unlikely.

Drew is the obvious hire if he'll come.  

[5fouls]

21 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Drew is the obvious hire if he'll come.  

Or, we could just hire Kelvin Sampson again.  They would both eventually take us to the same place.  

 

[dbmhoosier]

Just now, 5fouls said:

Or, we could just hire Kelvin Sampson again.  They would both eventually take us to the same place.  

 

To the Final 4?  If you're saying Drew is dirty well he's been doing it for close to 20 years and hasn't been caught.  So if so he's damn good at it.  We need a coach who is good at something. 

[NCHoosier32]

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Or, we could just hire Kelvin Sampson again.  They would both eventually take us to the same place.  

 

It would be a race to see if we'd get a Final Four or probation 1st!

[IUCrazy2]

33 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I can't really agree with this, and I've seen it mentioned a number of times. The vast majority of coaches, especially those who are successful, are Type A personalities with a very high competitive drive. The IU job is a challenge, but we're not overly special - these results wouldn't be acceptable at a number of schools, and not just the blue bloods. Michigan. Michigan State. Illinois. OSU. Hell, even Purdue wouldn't accept these results, especially if they lost 8 in a row or whatever it is to their in state rival. 

Archie was a good hire at the time. He was young, had solid success at a mid major, and this was a logical step for him, and the hire made sense for IU as well. It hasn't worked out for whatever reason (at least at this point - I still think there's time for him to right the ship), but CAM isn't struggling here because of the job itself. Frankly, it seems like you can narrow this down to a lack of ability to shoot FTs - fix that, and we've got a handful more wins on the right side of the ledger.

I'm not sure I agree with firing CAM, at least not without seeing what happens next year, but this is still a very attractive job, and all of the elements are there for a coach to have big results. 

I am not talking about fan expectations with why I as a mid major would think long and hard about being here, I am not convinced the administration of the school wants to win...or at least let me do the things that you need to do to win these days.  They will hire me, set expectations of Championships in the hiring press conference and then entrenched people within the school will dick me over.   Gotta de-emphasize those athletics donchaknow.

And really another up and comer is the same risk.  You start the 4 to 5 year cycle all over again.  I am just becoming more convinced that the people who run the school have squeezed the life out of the program with 20 years of bad decisions and that the program is screwed unless we stumble across another needle in a haystack.  That is a bunch of churning of coaches every 5 years until we find our guy.  I am 42.  Knight was fired when I was 21.  The school wasted half of my life to date hiring Davis, Sampson, Crean, and Miller.  The most fun I get out of the program anymore is talking on these boards.  If not for the online community, I think I would have completely checked out by now.  I do not have much time for sports as it is and this just sucks.  Another mid major hire is just a crap shoot.  I don't think anyone making the hire knows a damn thing about what it takes to win and so we get things that are theater.  Glass was all theater around the program.  Dolson I have zero faith in.

We are going to get Alford or another guy like Miller.  Bank on it.

[jefftheref]

8 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I can't really agree with this, and I've seen it mentioned a number of times. The vast majority of coaches, especially those who are successful, are Type A personalities with a very high competitive drive. The IU job is a challenge, but we're not overly special - these results wouldn't be acceptable at a number of schools, and not just the blue bloods. Michigan. Michigan State. Illinois. OSU. Hell, even Purdue wouldn't accept these results, especially if they lost 8 in a row or whatever it is to their in state rival. 

Archie was a good hire at the time. He was young, had solid success at a mid major, and this was a logical step for him, and the hire made sense for IU as well. It hasn't worked out for whatever reason (at least at this point - I still think there's time for him to right the ship), but CAM isn't struggling here because of the job itself. Frankly, it seems like you can narrow this down to a lack of ability to shoot FTs - fix that, and we've got a handful more wins on the right side of the ledger.

I'm not sure I agree with firing CAM, at least not without seeing what happens next year, but this is still a very attractive job, and all of the elements are there for a coach to have big results. 

At the time I thought Archie was a good hire. However, the results speak for themselves. Other than his successes in recruiting the Hoosier state there is nothing positive or encouraging about his tenure at Indiana. If he is not on the hot seat right now by the end of the year it should be on fire. Obviously he was not ready for the position he is currently in. 

[AxnJxn]

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I am not talking about fan expectations with why I as a mid major would think long and hard about being here, I am not convinced the administration of the school wants to win...or at least let me do the things that you need to do to win these days.  They will hire me, set expectations of Championships in the hiring press conference and then entrenched people within the school will dick me over.   Gotta de-emphasize those athletics donchaknow.

And really another up and comer is the same risk.  You start the 4 to 5 year cycle all over again.  I am just becoming more convinced that the people who run the school have squeezed the life out of the program with 20 years of bad decisions and that the program is screwed unless we stumble across another needle in a haystack.  That is a bunch of churning of coaches every 5 years until we find our guy.  I am 42.  Knight was fired when I was 21.  The school wasted half of my life to date hiring Davis, Sampson, Crean, and Miller.  The most fun I get out of the program anymore is talking on these boards.  If not for the online community, I think I would have completely checked out by now.  I do not have much time for sports as it is and this just sucks.  Another mid major hire is just a crap shoot.  I don't think anyone making the hire knows a damn thing about what it takes to win and so we get things that are theater.  Glass was all theater around the program.  Dolson I have zero faith in.

We are going to get Alford or another guy like Miller.  Bank on it.

Is the administration really getting in the way of CAM, though? Outside of Al, these are his players, they just aren't putting it together on the court. I'm not sure how that's the fault of the administration, and I didn't see any of that with CTC, either. It doesn't make much sense for the admin to de-emphasize a significant means for cash, too. I could maybe understand it in a sport that is losing money, but the basketball program has to run in the black pretty much every, yes?

[ATX_sig]

To me Drew is solid. I don't care if I like or dislike him.  I would not call him before a couple of others like Beard or Stevens or maybe even Matta to see what they might do but Drew gets the job done. I don't see IU going on probation with Drew. Almost seems like they are on probation now. 

[IUCrazy2]

5 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Is the administration really getting in the way of CAM, though? Outside of Al, these are his players, they just aren't putting it together on the court. I'm not sure how that's the fault of the administration, and I didn't see any of that with CTC, either. It doesn't make much sense for the admin to de-emphasize a significant means for cash, too. I could maybe understand it in a sport that is losing money, but the basketball program has to run in the black pretty much every, yes?

No, it doesn't make sense.  Like having a President siphon money from the AD for an International Studies building.  That's the problem, de-emphasizing athletics for a college like Indiana makes zero sense.  But we have had that mindset since Brand.

[Hippopotamo]

Realistically, I don’t see a scenario where CAM gets fired this season, but next year is absolutely his make or break year. If IU isn’t comfortably in the tournament next year I think they’ll move on. Then, the question becomes who do you hire? Oats and Musselman kind of make sense, and I could hear an argument for Scott Drew as well, but I’m concerned that a coaching change will turn into another rebuild. I’d almost rather keep Archie and at least hopes he stabilizes this roster than try to hit a home run again and potentially strike out. Right now IU doesn’t need to be too 10. They just need to be relevant in the big ten and in the country. But IU basketball is in a pretty tough spot right now and it’s definitely easy to be frustrated. 

[southsidehoosier]

41 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Or, we could just hire Kelvin Sampson again.  They would both eventually take us to the same place.  

 

Just curious but outside of the deportation threat of HP is there other illegal recruiting going on with Drew?

[cybergates]

4 minutes ago, southsidehoosier said:

Just curious but outside of the deportation threat of HP is there other illegal recruiting going on with Drew?

2012 violations are the only ones I've heard of. Too many calls/text (sound familiar?). Owned up to it and took the penalty (not even a violation anymore as we well know) and hasn't had an issue since TMK.

https://wacotrib.com/news/baylor-gets-3-years-probation-ncaa-accepts-other-self-imposed-penalties/article_e150b3c5-9710-5ae4-bf63-2455f5b50451.html

Drew was cited for failure to monitor the men’s program, which was related to his failure to inform Baylor’s administration of a potential violation and insufficient oversight of two assistant coaches’ recruitment activities, according to the NCAA’s report.

“As head coach, I take full responsibility for these mistakes and am disappointed that we have failed to uphold both the NCAA’s and Baylor’s expectations of documenting phone calls and recruiting communications,” Drew said in a statement. “Our program has taken steps to correct these mistakes, and we are grateful that the NCAA has accepted those actions.”