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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Your right they are excuses. Virtually never does a coach go into a season with a roster at 100%. It’s more common than not to lose a contributor for long stretches if not the whole seasons. 
 

Good coaches deal with it.  Good coaches don’t run with 7 scholarship players who aren’t freshmen.  Good coaches have at least 1 guy that can run their offense. Usually 2. 

Let’s go Brad STEVENS!!! :))

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44 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The parallels between Archie now and Mike Shula at Alabama in 2006 are striking.   Four years. Never beat his rival.  0.500 season his last year.  

The question is simple. Alabama doggedly pursued Nick Saban. What’s IU’s move?

We see it in all sports. All levels. As you pointed out. Bama in 06. Or perhaps Kentucky with BG. Or my Canes post Butch. 

I've tried to suggest as much as I can without crossing a line but....at what point do people realize the problem isn't who we hire? Davis, Sampson, Crean, Archie.....besides the first one what is the common denominator? IU Admin post Knight....or perhaps us as fans? 

So we either load up the truck and hire the biggest name in hoops.....or keep hiring guys who are very good coaches or up and coming coaches and somehow the 812 eats it up. Once sure. 3-4x? It's our problem....and it's our admin problem. 

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38 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Only responding to this because you have questioned my integrity and I am not gonna leave this forum with that hanging out there.

You are correct. I was on the leading edge of the criticism of Crean. IMO, entirely different situation than what is going on now with Archie.

- Crean had no recruiting strategy other than to throw it against the wall and hope some stuck

- Crean took on kids who had no place in wearing the stripes 

- Crean started taking kids who had character issues... A kid from “the movement “ who never made it on campus. A kid, in Holloway who had drug issues. A kid who was drunk and hit a teammate with his truck. 

- Crean alienated the high school coaches in our state through his behavior and his focus on out of state kids while ignoring quality kids in his own backyard.

Archie has run a clean program, not had any character issues until this year with Hunter, which he handled in a way that the kid has come back fully focused and a better asset to the team. He has not gotten all the best talent from the state, but gotten his share. He has had to deal with the carryover academic issues left by Crean, tying his hands on roster construction. Most importantly, IMO, he has not had one season in his 4 years here that he has had a full roster devoid of injuries. Losing Brunk this year took away that third big to take away some of the pressure on Race and TJD. Phinesee’s concussion has clearly affected his play. Romeo... even Morgan and his shoulder. Armani this year...

Sure Cannon and Sea Turtle and probably most on here will view these as excuses... so be it. We all have agendas . The fact is that Archie has not had one season in his four where he’s had his roster at full strength for the entire season.

 I refuse to participate in the tearing down of a coach who has done nothing but tried to restore this program to the rightful place it deserves. His record is what it i, but nowhere near for the reasons why Crean needed to go. 

Thanks for providing the opportunity for me to clarify this.

Appreciate y’all, and trying to be a little classier than @IowaHoosierFan, good luck to you all, and go Hoosiers 

I was also at the forefront of the anti-Crean movement.  We were wrong.

To be fair, we thought we could upgrade... But we ended up downgrading, by a lot.

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Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

I was also at the forefront of the anti-Crean movement.  We were wrong.

To be fair, we thought we could upgrade... But we ended up downgrading, by a lot.

That's the thing. Some of you guys have better memories than I. What makes anyone believe we can hire someone better? We hired the shiniest penny in Archie. Multiple Big 10 schools would have loved him.  What gives anyone confidence we'll get this one right? 

Allen is in firm control thanks to Fred. This is Dolson's career hire or move. Unless he convinces the powers at be to unload the $....why would anyone think a Musselman or a whatever is going to be any better?

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You hire good resumes in any job. Good resumes and good interviews. It’s never a guarantee in any job. When it doesn’t work you fire and do it again. You can’t strike out forever. But we aren’t dysfunctional married people staying in a relationship that’s not good for us when we think we “can’t do better.”

No way to make decisions.

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49 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

We see it in all sports. All levels. As you pointed out. Bama in 06. Or perhaps Kentucky with BG. Or my Canes post Butch. 

I've tried to suggest as much as I can without crossing a line but....at what point do people realize the problem isn't who we hire? Davis, Sampson, Crean, Archie.....besides the first one what is the common denominator? IU Admin post Knight....or perhaps us as fans? 

So we either load up the truck and hire the biggest name in hoops.....or keep hiring guys who are very good coaches or up and coming coaches and somehow the 812 eats it up. Once sure. 3-4x? It's our problem....and it's our admin problem. 

Just because a hire doesn't work out doesn't mean we should stop trying and live with what we have.  If that was the case, @5foulswouldn't have so many ex wives!

I don't see how the administration is that large of a factor in the struggles we're currently having.  Some?  Maybe, I guess, but they aren't telling Archie how to develop players, what system and philosophy to run, how to motivate the team, what to do in practice, who to play, etc.  He's showing flaws in things that are directly related to his coaching and the administration has no control over.  I don't think we should just live with that and assume someone else will have the same issues.

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Next year a overachieving IU with much better shooting, undersized a bit with 2-3bigten trny wins is an 8 seed out west and goes to the sweet 16, and Arch finds his stride. We better hope. Only Donovan has the cache to immediately bring in immediate help. We'd pay for that. We got one more move. 

Fire at the end of the year.

#40,,,,Evansville

Or mark my words its Fyfe in 2023. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Just because a hire doesn't work out doesn't mean we should stop trying and live with what we have.  If that was the case, @5foulswouldn't have so many ex wives!

I don't see how the administration is that large of a factor in the struggles we're currently having.  Some?  Maybe, I guess, but they aren't telling Archie how to develop players, what system and philosophy to run, how to motivate the team, what to do in practice, who to play, etc.  He's showing flaws in things that are directly related to his coaching and the administration has no control over.  I don't think we should just live with that and assume someone else will have the same issues.

So one coach works....during a 30 year tenure and is the top of all hoops. Since that point....4 hires (Davis, Sampson, Crean, Archie) and none do? Are you saying or seeing the same level of support?

Just play the numbers. I can't imagine being in a world where fans aren't recognizing what has happened in Bloomington over the last 20.  IU admin doesn't want IU hoops to be as big as it ever was. It's an academia world in Bloomington right now.

PS....ask Harbaugh what he thinks of IU admin. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

So one coach works....during a 30 year tenure and is the top of all hoops. Since that point....4 hires (Davis, Sampson, Crean, Archie) and none do? Are you saying or seeing the same level of support?

Just play the numbers. I can't imagine being in a world where fans aren't recognizing what has happened in Bloomington over the last 20.  IU admin doesn't want IU hoops to be as big as it ever was. It's an academia world in Bloomington right now.

PS....ask Harbaugh what he thinks of IU admin. 

 

I still don't get how the administration is holding Archie back in any of the ways I listed before.

Tom Allen had the IU football team in the top 10 with the same administration, and way more hurdles to clear.  The right coach would have the basketball team in the top 10 again.  Crean did multiple times with the same administrative issues.

I'm not saying the administration couldn't/shouldn't be better, but they aren't the main issue that's probably going to have us under .500 or worse in the B1G for the 4th straight year.

Also, Harbaugh is a moron, and we fired his brother in law. Couldn't care less about what he has to say.

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2 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

We see it in all sports. All levels. As you pointed out. Bama in 06. Or perhaps Kentucky with BG. Or my Canes post Butch. 

I've tried to suggest as much as I can without crossing a line but....at what point do people realize the problem isn't who we hire? Davis, Sampson, Crean, Archie.....besides the first one what is the common denominator? IU Admin post Knight....or perhaps us as fans? 

So we either load up the truck and hire the biggest name in hoops.....or keep hiring guys who are very good coaches or up and coming coaches and somehow the 812 eats it up. Once sure. 3-4x? It's our problem....and it's our admin problem. 

I'm going to keep it short and sweet. Or not. 

I've spent alot of time in Bloomington over the years and now work in town. Not many of the townies give a rats ass about IU basketball anymore.  They mostly bitch about college kids and the University which made Bloomington what it is. 

What the IU administration needs to do is to tell the critics to kiss their own ass and hire the best coach for the job. Instead we get diversity hires and ass kissers. 

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On 2/25/2021 at 7:06 AM, IUwins0708 said:

I’m glad I went to bed at halftime last night.  IU basketball got swept by RUTGERS, freaking Rutgers!! They also lost to Northwestern at home.  I’ve said it before but Indiana basketball is DEAD! 

I didnt watch the game and felt great after.  I won't be watching anymore games until Archie and most of this team is long gone. No more caring for a university that doesnt care about winning. Dolson doesnt have the stones to make the change.

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1 hour ago, Leathernecks said:

I still don't get how the administration is holding Archie back in any of the ways I listed before.

Tom Allen had the IU football team in the top 10 with the same administration, and way more hurdles to clear.  The right coach would have the basketball team in the top 10 again.  Crean did multiple times with the same administrative issues.

I'm not saying the administration couldn't/shouldn't be better, but they aren't the main issue that's probably going to have us under .500 or worse in the B1G for the 4th straight year.

Also, Harbaugh is a moron, and we fired his brother in law. Couldn't care less about what he has to say.

The main issue for IU basketball under Archie is that we don't have a PG. While I have no problem blaming the admin for McKinley Wright not being here, I have no problem blaming Archie that in four years he hasn't manage to get one. 

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6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

The main issue for IU basketball under Archie is that we don't have a PG. While I have no problem blaming the admin for McKinley Wright not being here, I have no problem blaming Archie that in four years he hasn't manage to get one. 

Absolutely agree !!! 

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To the Archie supporters,

Tell me how another year will fix this?  So there's a chance we lose are 2 top leading scorers at the en of the season, TJD 20 ppg and Durham 11 ppg. With the "player development" I've witnessed in the last 4 years who do you see stepping up to make up for those 30 points. Correct me if I'm wrong but we have only one incoming freshman for next year at this point and for a coach that is a great recruiter it sure seems we are missing out on a lot of in state kids at this point. To make things worse they are choosing the other school over Indiana. 

I see a lot of all we need is a PG and things would be better.  I remember 2 years ago when Rob was a freshman everybody was claiming he was going to be a great PG, now he's not the answer. Why? In my opinion he has regressed each year, and honestly I don't put that on him. You've got to have a coach and coaching staff that can develop and make kids better. Franklin is the only player in these 4 years that I can see made an improvement from one year to another. 

I've heard a lot of just wait until Archie has his players things will be different. Well how much longer do I have to wait? Last year I would see on here its Player A and Player B's fault, they were causing all the problems. Well Player A graduated and Player B transfered and is actually having a pretty good season at another school for a coach I've seen named in the other thread for a replacement.  So those 2 players are gone and things still haven't changed.

We don't have shooters excuse. If they cant shoot why were they even recruited? Every guard and every wing could and can shoot or they wouldn't have been playing in high school. The problem lies with the coaching staff and player development (we have neither). I 100% believe the previous coaching staff could have taking these kids and you would have seen improvement every year in their shooting percentages. 

I personally didn't like the hire when it happened because I felt we were going backwards, but I was willing to give it a couple of years to see how it went, hoping I was wrong.  

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7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

The main issue for IU basketball under Archie is that we don't have a PG. While I have no problem blaming the admin for McKinley Wright not being here, I have no problem blaming Archie that in four years he hasn't manage to get one. 

Or, is it the style of play for those point guards?  We have had very good combo guards and you can win in todays game with combo guards.  Johnson, Newkirk, Green, Rob, Lander, Langford, etc.  

Green was restricted from his play making ability.  He was a player who can speed up the game and he was forced to slow it down.  Each kid has game and good character.  Even Newkirk could lead a team - maybe not a NBA talent, but a solid role player and was a senior.  

Anyone see Justin Smith's recent quote making its rounds on twitter?

On Arkansas: "I came here to win and its exceeding my expectations."  Something like that.

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I wasn’t a Justin Smith fan ,but his comment says a lot! He went to Arkansas to win!!! That’s what draws recruits! That’s why we have none! 
What can Archie tell them. Come to Indiana and play against the best ! Willnerve beat them but you can play against the best! 
oh yeah you’ll never play in the NCAA tournament, but hey people love the Nit tournament 

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12 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

We see it in all sports. All levels. As you pointed out. Bama in 06. Or perhaps Kentucky with BG. Or my Canes post Butch. 

I've tried to suggest as much as I can without crossing a line but....at what point do people realize the problem isn't who we hire? Davis, Sampson, Crean, Archie.....besides the first one what is the common denominator? IU Admin post Knight....or perhaps us as fans? 

So we either load up the truck and hire the biggest name in hoops.....or keep hiring guys who are very good coaches or up and coming coaches and somehow the 812 eats it up. Once sure. 3-4x? It's our problem....and it's our admin problem. 

I disagree to an extent. The problem is the administration. But the problem is that they are hiring the wrong guys. So it is who we hire. Admin makes bad hire. Bad hire can’t cut it, rinse and repeat. But there is a new guy to make the call this time around. An outgoing president (when does that happen?), it’s an opportunity for success IMO. 

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1 hour ago, HMSHoosier said:

To the Archie supporters,

Tell me how another year will fix this?  So there's a chance we lose are 2 top leading scorers at the en of the season, TJD 20 ppg and Durham 11 ppg. With the "player development" I've witnessed in the last 4 years who do you see stepping up to make up for those 30 points. Correct me if I'm wrong but we have only one incoming freshman for next year at this point and for a coach that is a great recruiter it sure seems we are missing out on a lot of in state kids at this point. To make things worse they are choosing the other school over Indiana. 

I see a lot of all we need is a PG and things would be better.  I remember 2 years ago when Rob was a freshman everybody was claiming he was going to be a great PG, now he's not the answer. Why? In my opinion he has regressed each year, and honestly I don't put that on him. You've got to have a coach and coaching staff that can develop and make kids better. Franklin is the only player in these 4 years that I can see made an improvement from one year to another. 

I've heard a lot of just wait until Archie has his players things will be different. Well how much longer do I have to wait? Last year I would see on here its Player A and Player B's fault, they were causing all the problems. Well Player A graduated and Player B transfered and is actually having a pretty good season at another school for a coach I've seen named in the other thread for a replacement.  So those 2 players are gone and things still haven't changed.

We don't have shooters excuse. If they cant shoot why were they even recruited? Every guard and every wing could and can shoot or they wouldn't have been playing in high school. The problem lies with the coaching staff and player development (we have neither). I 100% believe the previous coaching staff could have taking these kids and you would have seen improvement every year in their shooting percentages. 

I personally didn't like the hire when it happened because I felt we were going backwards, but I was willing to give it a couple of years to see how it went, hoping I was wrong.  

i'm not really an "Archie supporter" or an "Anti-Archie Guy."  i also don't think another year will fix this, but... just to give the argument - what if TJD comes back?  (i don't think they will), what if Stewart is really good?  (i think our expectations are a little high personally), what if Lander is much more ready?  (kind of think we'll see  solid jump), what if?  what if?  

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19 minutes ago, Feathery said:

I disagree to an extent. The problem is the administration. But the problem is that they are hiring the wrong guys. So it is who we hire. Admin makes bad hire. Bad hire can’t cut it, rinse and repeat. But there is a new guy to make the call this time around. An outgoing president (when does that happen?), it’s an opportunity for success IMO. 

I still think there is an element of the admin not letting the guy they hire do what they do. I really do believe there are some handcuffs the IU admin puts on their basketball coaches. 

Crean alluded to this on his way out, and there was that Rabjohn's podcast from a couple years ago where he went into this. 

When you stink for this long, at some point its the admin. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I still think there is an element of the admin not letting the guy they hire do what they do. I really do believe there are some handcuffs the IU admin puts on their basketball coaches. 

Crean alluded to this on his way out, and there was that Rabjohn's podcast from a couple years ago where he went into this. 

When you stink for this long, at some point its the admin. 

It's probably both poor hires and an administration that handcuffs their coaches.   Poor hires because both Davis and Crean have been pretty bad.  Davis fired at UAB and Crean likely getting fired next year at Georgia. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I still think there is an element of the admin not letting the guy they hire do what they do. I really do believe there are some handcuffs the IU admin puts on their basketball coaches. 

Crean alluded to this on his way out, and there was that Rabjohn's podcast from a couple years ago where he went into this. 

When you stink for this long, at some point its the admin. 

Over a year ago I talked about things my friend who was an assistant on a BIG team saying same kind of things.

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I still think there is an element of the admin not letting the guy they hire do what they do. I really do believe there are some handcuffs the IU admin puts on their basketball coaches. 

Crean alluded to this on his way out, and there was that Rabjohn's podcast from a couple years ago where he went into this. 

When you stink for this long, at some point its the admin. 

Crean WAS able to be good though.  And it was poor roster construction/high turnover that caused his repeated debts. An administration holding him back would have prevented him from being good. 
 

Leadership is about supporting your team.  Had Crean been able to keep Remy and Luke Fischer on the team who know how his tenure goes. But he couldn’t. 

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