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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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2 minutes ago, ThePaulieWalnuts said:

Completely agree.  How can that be accomplished?  Can they get pushed out?

I’m a huge UT football fan and I’ve been so impressed by the rabid nature of their fans to enact CHANGE. 
 

Call them over the top. That’s fine. They’re organized and will not let down until they’re back. Ton of parallels historically with the programs.

But can you pictures a President of the University at IU taking the mic ans holding a press conference for the basketball fans to assure them all the way up the university is fully committed to getting their Football program back to their standards? I can’t. UT did after the fans got organized and flipped their 💩.

They did what WE should. They realized enough coaches had come and gone that people higher UP needed to feel heat. So they feel it now and they know their necks are on the line.

Maybe WE as fans are too soft.

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3 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

Archie is obviously not blameless in the current state of IU basketball. But if the administration doesn’t give Archie all the tools to be successful, he’s going to have a hard time getting this program to a level that the fans are clamoring for. He still has tools to get this team to be better than .500 in the big ten and he hasn’t made that happen, but if he’s competing against programs that are in sync with their administrations that’s a really tough disadvantage to overcome. 

Exactly this!

Archie has not done a good job. The program is in a tailspin, and it is absolutely time for a change. 

(The above means that Archie is at fault too and isn't blameless)

With that said, I'm 99.9% confident that Archie and Crean before him are not supported, in a variety of ways, the way Self is at Kansas, Williams at UNC, K at Duke, Izzo at MSU, Wade at LSU, Beard at TT, etc., etc.

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Just now, mrflynn03 said:

The administration is only part of the equation.  It's not their fault Archie and staff have failed at developing players.

Unless they are telling him he can't recruit top recruits and have to only recruit Indiana  then the last 4 years is on Archie.  He is responsible for the type pf offense that is being ran and the lack of talent that is on this team

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2 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

The administration is only part of the equation.  It's not their fault Archie and staff have failed at developing players.

And that is EXACTLY what every one of us arguing have made the point to explain a dozen times or more. But it seems few are listening. 
 

“we believe the administration isn’t all in”

”oh so it isn’t Archie’s fault?”

”no archie should be fired. But 25 years of crap means it goes higher ALSO.”

”oh so is all on the administration.”

W.T.F.

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3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The football team has had like 2 good years in 100 years. Nobody has said you can't have good years at IU. 

Also, no sport at IU is comparable to basketball. Basketball is it's own beast at a school like IU and as @dbmhoosier and others have said, the admin hasn't supported it to be the face of the university. 

Comparing the sports isn't apples to apples. 

I was tossing football out there as the obvious one, but the baseball program has become relevant recently, women's basketball is having a great season, and soccer is ... well, our soccer program has been a national power for decades. But, I get your point.

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Because those sports didn't create the university and they never will get the same recognition. I'm in Paris 3 years ago. Get inside the cab and he asks where am I from. I said Indiana. He said....ahhhh Indy 500 and Bob Knight. 

I can't make this point enough. They never want that particular conversation to happen. They'd rather be known for some frickin molecule research. If that's even a career. 

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you guys, I just think Scott had an interesting point. I've had the same experience - when I moved to the East in the mid 90s, most people would reference RMK when I mentioned I went to IU. 

 

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Unless they are telling him he can't recruit top recruits and have to only recruit Indiana  then the last 4 years is on Archie.  He is responsible for the type pf offense that is being ran and the lack of talent that is on this team

You are correct and I agree with you 100%. And this has nothing to do with what I’m saying. 

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3 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

And that is EXACTLY what every one of us arguing have made the point to explain a dozen times or more. But it seems few are listening. 
 

“we believe the administration isn’t all in”

”oh so it isn’t Archie’s fault?”

”no archie should be fired. But 25 years of crap means it goes higher ALSO.”

”oh so is all on the administration.”

W.T.F.

How in the world is this so difficult to understand?!?!

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3 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

And that’s exactly what I agree with. Period. 

Which I will say I’m not convinced of per se. in my view we need to be consistently decent before we can diagnose why we can’t take the next step.  
 

Part of me thinks a consistently decent coach might get a little more lee way than Crean and Archie. I know that’s how it’s worked where I have worked 

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4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Unless they are telling him he can't recruit top recruits and have to only recruit Indiana  then the last 4 years is on Archie.  He is responsible for the type pf offense that is being ran and the lack of talent that is on this team

Did they tell him he had to keep Crean's recruiting class and they he couldn't bring McKinley Wright?

I don't know that for a fact, but its been reported by reputable people. 

Are there handcuffs on some of the kids he's able to go after? I don't know that for a fact, but its been reported by reputable people. 

Again, that doesn't mean Archie has done a good job. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be fired. 

But how can you look at the last 25 years and not see that beyond the coaching there are organizational issues at play here?

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14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Again, nobody has said that. Literally, nobody. 

Then why are you saying you can’t believe people can’t see it’s an administration problem. Admin problem or not the coach is responsible for the product on the floor. Get a coach that can win like Wisconsin under Bo Ryan and nobody is complaining. I’m not asking for Duke level success which I’d love to see. Just be Bo Ryan Wisconsin for cryin out loud. 

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Just now, Feathery said:

Then why are you saying you can’t believe people can’t see it’s an administration problem. Admin problem or not the coach is responsible for the product on the floor. Get a coach that can win like Wisconsin under Bo Ryan and nobody is complaining. I’m not asking for Duke level success which I’d love to see. Just be Bo Ryan Wisconsin for cryin out loud. 

Bo Ryan had a phenomenal AD, hence the organizational support. 

There's a reason Wisconsin football and basketball have gone from the basement to consistent winning over several different coaches. 

The university is all-in from the top. 

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1 minute ago, Sea Turtle said:

Yeah, I'm done with him too. I guess he wants internal memos.

This is why maybe this summer we'll need a golf outing or whatever. Haha.

We can share some stories off the record. Last time I typed something that had some juice...it made it from North Shore of Chicago source to me to an IU message board to an Illinois message board back to my phone via text and emails after that all in about 90 minutes. Scary stuff.

Ever since that moment I've never shared specifics. 

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11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Exactly this!

Archie has not done a good job. The program is in a tailspin, and it is absolutely time for a change. 

(The above means that Archie is at fault too and isn't blameless)

With that said, I'm 99.9% confident that Archie and Crean before him are not supported, in a variety of ways, the way Self is at Kansas, Williams at UNC, K at Duke, Izzo at MSU, Wade at LSU, Beard at TT, etc., etc.

Is it possible in the history of iubb that previous administrations supported coach Knight way too solidly? Totally agree and understand your confidence too

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Bo Ryan had a phenomenal AD, hence the organizational support. 

There's a reason Wisconsin football and basketball have gone from the basement to consistent winning over several different coaches. 

The university is all-in from the top. 

Yeah. They hired the correct coaches and continue to do that. They set a culture. IU is searching for a culture post Knight. Which is an argument to bring in a former player. Get the culture back 

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Just now, Brass Cannon said:

I don’t think your understanding the other side.  
 

Until we have a consistently good coach. We can’t get a good guage on our administration.  

It's been over 25 years. How long do you need?

The coaching hasn't been good. The administration has actively worked to deemphasize basketball. 

Both things are true. But for any coach, it's going to be more difficult when you don't have full organizational support. 

Again, nobody is saying Archie has been good or that he doesn't deserve to be fired. 

But, the job is more difficult without an all-in administration. 

That's all we're saying, and everyone tried to make it some huge defense of Archie. 

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3 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Then why are you saying you can’t believe people can’t see it’s an administration problem. Admin problem or not the coach is responsible for the product on the floor. Get a coach that can win like Wisconsin under Bo Ryan and nobody is complaining. I’m not asking for Duke level success which I’d love to see. Just be Bo Ryan Wisconsin for cryin out loud. 

Haha. Bo Ryan had an ongoing affair in public for his entire tenure at Wisconsin. Alvarez and others looked the other way because they were winning but it wasn't good. My good friend's Dad is member at Ryan's country club.....can you imagine one of our coaches having a known public affair with someone and still be allowed? Shoot Wilson was ready to be hung because he likes to tip a few. 

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1 minute ago, Feathery said:

Yeah. They hired the correct coaches and continue to do that. They set a culture. IU is searching for a culture post Knight. Which is an argument to bring in a former player. Get the culture back 

But there’s no good former player. At this point we need to import some good culture from somewhere else.  

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2 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Yeah. They hired the correct coaches and continue to do that. They set a culture. IU is searching for a culture post Knight. Which is an argument to bring in a former player. Get the culture back 

I don't know about the IU guy part, but the rest is exactly what has been missing. 

The culture changed towards the end of Knight's tenure and he saw that. Having a dominant basketball program was actively being deemphasized.  

That winning culture comes from the top, even higher than the coach most times. 

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5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's been over 25 years. How long do you need?

The coaching hasn't been good. The administration has actively worked to deemphasize basketball. 

Both things are true. But for any coach, it's going to be more difficult when you don't have full organizational support. 

Again, nobody is saying Archie has been good or that he doesn't deserve to be fired. 

But, the job is more difficult without an all-in administration. 

That's all we're saying, and everyone tried to make it some huge defense of Archie. 

25 years but context is that’s 4 hire. 1 of which was good.  3 bad hires. 
 

We need to change how we hire.  Mike Davis wasn’t good enough to be named the sole interim coach. That should have been an obvious no. 
 

Crean was a flash in the pan and so was Archie.  We went flash not substance 
 

We need to invest in somebody that has been successful multiple high level places or years at a single high level place 
 

If we do that and the guy can’t take us the next step then we can talk about what the administration needs to do. 

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