It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[mrflynn03]

Was watching some old IU games. 

I dont really know what I'm talking about but, based on what I saw and have seen,

Ditch the pack line defense, it's been 4 years and how many times have we been burned from 3 point land. I just dont think CAM can teach it, and let's be real, it's a mostly stupid defensive concept with a few exceptions.  I get the idea, 3 pointers are a lower % shot but when you leave them wide open🤷‍♂️  

I feel CAM has spent way too much time on a stupid defense but I think his biggest problem is he has a team that outside of practice doesn't do anything to improve their game. If they did they would at least shoot free throws better.  

[BADGERVOL]

1 hour ago, madmax said:

Full disclosure: I’m one of the 7 people left hoping Archie gets another year. 

But do you really honestly think that Archie was “energized and pumped” at the thought of cashing a fat check? Does that really seem like something he would do? The famously stoic man who already has made more money then he could ever possibly need in 5 lifetimes is excited for a few more million? So excited that it spills over into an interview?

Coaches do care about money. But I’d bet more then anything he would trade a few million for a better record over the past 4 years.

I feel like our fan base is setting itself up for extreme disappointment soon. Maybe I’m wrong, probably am, but we will see...

No it isn’t that he’s jacked about getting money...it’s that he’s cooked at this place, wants out AND wants a good exit. And either he got it, and feels reignited to finish well and move on because he’s going to get out of dodge and get most of the money he excitedly originally signed on for, AND gets a fresh start. There is way more evidence to point towards him being more discouraged than him being sincerely pumped with how things are turning out. 
 

my gut says both sides desire an amicable parting of ways and are trying to see how to make this a realistic “win/win” because if not it’s going to be a long off season in Btown.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, mrflynn03 said:

Was watching some old IU games. 

I dont really know what I'm talking about but, based on what I saw and have seen,

Ditch the pack line defense, it's been 4 years and how many times have we been burned from 3 point land. I just dont think CAM can teach it, and let's be real, it's a mostly stupid defensive concept with a few exceptions.  I get the idea, 3 pointers are a lower % shot but when you leave them wide open🤷‍♂️  

I feel CAM has spent way too much time on a stupid defense but I think his biggest problem is he has a team that outside of practice doesn't do anything to improve their game. If they did they would at least shoot free throws better.  

We probably will ditch the packline, but it is a good defensive concept. The issue is how we play it, not the concept itself. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

All this hope and excitement is going to lead to nothing.  I highly doubt he gets fired.  If anything, i could see the administration giving him a 2 year extension.  He is the perfect coach for them.  He can walk that middle line for ever and they never have to worry about a bigger than the university coach.

Nope, we will have CAM as our coach for at least another 3-5 years. 

[3Ballin]

6 hours ago, madmax said:

 

I feel like our fan base is setting itself up for extreme disappointment soon. Maybe I’m wrong, probably am, but we will see...

Have you not been paying attention!?  Setting ourselves up for extreme dissapointment is what we do!!  🤣🤣

[dbmhoosier]

4 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

All this hope and excitement is going to lead to nothing.  I highly doubt he gets fired.  If anything, i could see the administration giving him a 2 year extension.  He is the perfect coach for them.  He can walk that middle line for ever and they never have to worry about a bigger than the university coach.

Nope, we will have CAM as our coach for at least another 3-5 years. 

Even I'm not that pessimistic.  He'll be gone by next year at the latest. 

[5fouls]

11 hours ago, dgambill said:

Speaking of Romeo. Anyone wonder if that team coached by Crean would have been better off? I do.

I don't think Romeo would have came to IU if Crean had been coach.  

[H00sier]

7 hours ago, Inequality said:

That last statement is similar to that slot machine your afraid to walk away from because it hasn’t hit and in your mind your thinking it could hit at any time. Similarly, a waste of time and money. I hate that a once blue blood would take such a gamble. 

That’s the very reason I don’t care if we go for a change unless we can pull in a sure winner, or as close to a sure winner in an uncertain world. On top of that this has been a year like no other , with the virus, while I know all teams have to deal with it-individual players handle things differently. If Coach gets another year, one thing he needs to do is find out a way to get Robs confidence back, poor guy looks like he’s lost all hope.

[NCHoosier32]

8 hours ago, madmax said:

Full disclosure: I’m one of the 7 people left hoping Archie gets another year. 

But do you really honestly think that Archie was “energized and pumped” at the thought of cashing a fat check? Does that really seem like something he would do? The famously stoic man who already has made more money then he could ever possibly need in 5 lifetimes is excited for a few more million? So excited that it spills over into an interview?

Coaches do care about money. But I’d bet more then anything he would trade a few million for a better record over the past 4 years.

I feel like our fan base is setting itself up for extreme disappointment soon. Maybe I’m wrong, probably am, but we will see...

are you one of 7 left in the world or on this board?  that's not very many!  personally, and i'm a little surprised saying it, if we are looking at some of the options people are throwing out there, i'd rather him get another year.  another bad hire would be so devastating.  if we're settling for a guy with no experience or a guy many have never heard of, etc., let's see if our options are better if he can't prove himself next year.    

[H00sier]

47 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I don't think Romeo would have came to IU if Crean had been coach.  

No clue about him coming period if Louisville don’t get caught. That being said, is a make believe world, Crean just coaches O better. 

We need a way to smash Crean and Miller together into one coach. 

[NCHoosier32]

5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

We probably will ditch the packline, but it is a good defensive concept. The issue is how we play it, not the concept itself. 

if Archie is back, we really think he'll ditch the packline D?  i would doubt it.  most college coaches don't just abandon their defensive philosophy.  i also still don't see it as our big problem.  our defense isn't bad.  i venture to say we should worry more about our offense.  

[rico]

4 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

are you one of 7 left in the world or on this board?  that's not very many!  personally, and i'm a little surprised saying it, if we are looking at some of the options people are throwing out there, i'd rather him get another year.  another bad hire would be so devastating.  if we're settling for a guy with no experience or a guy many have never heard of, etc., let's see if our options are better if he can't prove himself next year.    

Aside from what stance any here had on Archie when he was hired, the pundits(media) viewed Arch as a great hire for IU basketball.  All I can say is be careful what you(meaning us) wish for this time around.

[OLDIUFAN]

I do agree that we can not afford to miss on our next coach. If we bring someone in that can’t win in the Big Ten then we will be looking at another 4 or 5 year’s. How for down the food chain does Indiana become. We’re already solidly in the bottom tier. 
Paid to be there! Bad look for our Kelly school of business! 😂

[JugRox]

9 hours ago, 8Bucks said:

The thing I like about Drew is that he used to chase the 5*s but changed his recruiting strategy a few years back. He has a more Villanova like approach now which is what I hoped Archie would bring.  

https://www.si.com/college/2020/02/28/scott-drew-baylor-basketball

Drew would probably have to address the Hanner issue but that and the phone calls were so long ago they do not seem to have been reoccurring patterns. 

Thanks for the article 

[OLDIUFAN]

I was reading that what ever job Archie would get come off the buy out. Then I got thinking what Power 5 school would even hire Archie after this 4 year devastating resume. 
He doesn’t have the personality to do media like Crean did. I would guess back to mid major and try again. 

[JugRox]

1 minute ago, OLDIUFAN said:

I was reading that what ever job Archie would get come off the buy out. Then I got thinking what Power 5 school would even hire Archie after this 4 year devastating resume. 
He doesn’t have the personality to do media like Crean did. I would guess back to mid major and try again. 

Penn State and Pitt would hire Miller in a heart beat.

[5fouls]

11 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Now since I have to qualify every post recently....I'm not saying Archie isn't without fault...but 7 bunnies and 3 more free throws per game might have a big difference on the annual report card in the W/L department. 

Could you qualify that statement please.  

[3Ballin]

16 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Could you qualify that statement please.  

What's a qualifying time these days?  56 wpm on a computer or 23 wpm on a phone that doesnt have talk to text? 🤔  

[OLDIUFAN]

There were several games if we just shot 70% at the free throw line we win. 
No doubt about some of the easy buckets we missed hurt. Just shows Archie can coach, also show’s he doesn’t recruit very well for the tough Big Ten. 

[Fiveoutofsix]

10 minutes ago, OLDIUFAN said:

There were several games if we just shot 70% at the free throw line we win. 
No doubt about some of the easy buckets we missed hurt. Just shows Archie can coach, also show’s he doesn’t recruit very well for the tough Big Ten. 

I like Archie's schemes from a high school standpoint, just think it needs innovation and progression in todays game. 

And I do beleive he is a ball coach who forgot more than we know.

Some of the point blank misses from beyond the arc or at the rim have been what the opposing defenses give them.  Many of the at the bucket is do to contact or misdirection or anticipation.

The same can be said for any team, IU just isn't winning and has gone on extensive loosing streaks all four years I beleive.

 

[MrsStoller]

10 hours ago, 8Bucks said:

The thing I like about Drew is that he used to chase the 5*s but changed his recruiting strategy a few years back. He has a more Villanova like approach now which is what I hoped Archie would bring.  

https://www.si.com/college/2020/02/28/scott-drew-baylor-basketball

Drew would probably have to address the Hanner issue but that and the phone calls were so long ago they do not seem to have been reoccurring patterns. 

Welcome to the board!  

[tdhoosier]

9 hours ago, 8Bucks said:

The thing I like about Drew is that he used to chase the 5*s but changed his recruiting strategy a few years back. He has a more Villanova like approach now which is what I hoped Archie would bring.  

https://www.si.com/college/2020/02/28/scott-drew-baylor-basketball

Drew would probably have to address the Hanner issue but that and the phone calls were so long ago they do not seem to have been reoccurring patterns. 

Thanks for bringing this to the board. 

Is Scott Drew the real life Ted Lasso? haha.

I’m not sure if it’s going to be Drew or not, but I will not be unhappy if it is. And whomever the coach may be I think I would enjoy one that is more adaptable vs. steadfast in their ways. 

IMO, a coach should be recruiting players that fit their culture, not necessarily a system. Plug the new players into your areas of need and adapt your system as needed to fit the players you have.

The perception seems to be it takes 2 years to perfect the packline - that’s half of a players college career. If you don’t ‘stay old’ then you’re screwed. And even if you do stay old you have no depth because you’re underclassmen are a defensive liability. This only get magnified when you have empty spots on your roster. Maybe the reason why our defense still stinks this year is because in year 4 we are still one of the youngest teams in the conference. This is not sustainable in the era of CBB. As new rules are passed, it’s getting harder and harder for a team to stay old. The moment I realized this is when I thought the IU administration needed to take another path. 

I want a coach who will try to keep it simple, one that is going to work smarter and not harder to achieve success. There’s no shame in that. 

[cybergates]

10 hours ago, 8Bucks said:

The thing I like about Drew is that he used to chase the 5*s but changed his recruiting strategy a few years back. He has a more Villanova like approach now which is what I hoped Archie would bring.  

https://www.si.com/college/2020/02/28/scott-drew-baylor-basketball

Drew would probably have to address the Hanner issue but that and the phone calls were so long ago they do not seem to have been reoccurring patterns. 

Thanks for the link. After reading that, it seems like he could handle the pressure of the IU job.

These few quotes have me excited about the possibility of Drew (one of which you alluded to liking in your post):

Drew was undaunted. Playing from way behind and unwilling to take as long to rebuild as most people expected, he embarked on a two-pronged recruiting strategy: players and donors. He relentlessly attacked both, speaking to every Baylor alumni group he could find and chasing on-court talent everywhere.

Donations were raised to buy a golf cart for whisking recruits around campus. More money was raised for a smoked-glass door in the locker room, in hopes of trying to make it look better. (“We had nothing else to sell,” Driscoll said.) Finally, a donor was lined up to remodel the whole locker room, which freed up the staff to get more creative in other areas.

Recruiting players and donors would be great at IU. If we are mid-pack Big Ten facilities, maybe he can help change that.

Along the way, a guy known for his zone defense threw that out and has played man-to-man almost the entire season. Drew simply believed his current personnel—shorter, more athletic—is better suited to man than zone. The decision has proved prescient; this is the best defensive team Drew has ever had.

Making adjustment to personnel has been sorely lacking in Archie's tenure.

Eventually, Drew altered his recruiting approach—he chased fewer five-stars and more developmental prospects who competed with a hunger that helped compensate for any lack of talent. He combed the transfer market for players who would fit his program. He embraced the new roster management mantra for college basketball success in the one-and-done era: get old and stay old.

Chasing the right talent instead of the best talent. Making the get old stay old mantra actually work

[rico]

41 minutes ago, OLDIUFAN said:

There were several games if we just shot 70% at the free throw line we win. 
No doubt about some of the easy buckets we missed hurt. Just shows Archie can coach, also show’s he doesn’t recruit very well for the tough Big Ten. 

Let me get this straight...missing easy buckets=bad recruiting.  That is a new one to me.

[cybergates]

Wonder if Archie does anything like this?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31007359/draymond-green-video-fires-michigan-clinch-big-ten-men-basketball-title-vs-michigan-state