It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[Feathery]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

what's the theory?  we really think these guys just don't know how to shoot FTs?  we think they need a coach to teach them a new technique?  

Well TJD will sometimes pause at the top of his shot and then brick it. Sometimes players are falling back instead of leaning into their shot. So yeah they need coached. The guys on Assembly Call podcast have been lamenting this most of the season, well the last 4 seasons. Lol

[Steubenhoosier]

4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

i guess we see in a few weeks but f they bring Archie back I hope they know how it will be perceived.  Also I hope he is ready for AH to be half empty even though people are ready to get back to watching live sports.  I hope he is ready for rating to go down on tV and radio broadcast because people is starting to do other things.  I still watch the games but the last few it didn't bother that much that we lost and I hate feeling that way. 

You know all this how, Scott? Got your crystal ball all fired up?

You State things as absolutes to fit your argument, but you really have no idea how things would play out. What if, instead the fan base goes all out to back the team because it’s their team?Regardless of feelings about the coach. What if the players finally get fed up with all the bs and play like their hair is on fire?

 I have no clue if my scenario is possible, on the other hand you don’t either regarding yours. 

Very little in all this is black and white so don’t portray your views as inevitable 

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

You know all this how, Scott? Got your crystal ball all fired up?

You State things as absolutes to fit your argument, but you really have no idea how things would play out. What if, instead the fan base goes all out to back the team because it’s their team?Regardless of feelings about the coach. What if the players finally get fed up with all the bs and play like their hair is on fire?

 I have no clue if my scenario is possible, on the other hand you don’t either regarding yours. 

Very little in all this is black and white so don’t portray your views as inevitable 

Because I have the ability to read and listen to what people are saying.  I have seen what fans and former players are saying about their apathy towards the program.  I am not saying that we will be only getting 5,000 for games but probably around 10-11 thousand.

[BADGERVOL]

10 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

You know all this how, Scott? Got your crystal ball all fired up?

You State things as absolutes to fit your argument, but you really have no idea how things would play out. What if, instead the fan base goes all out to back the team because it’s their team?Regardless of feelings about the coach. What if the players finally get fed up with all the bs and play like their hair is on fire?

 I have no clue if my scenario is possible, on the other hand you don’t either regarding yours. 

Very little in all this is black and white so don’t portray your views as inevitable 

“Come on man!” Yes it is completely possible what you’re saying COULD happen, but that is not at all what is most reasonable to assume. You know darn well if you had to bet your life savings on your scenario vs what Scott is saying is likely you’d put it on what Scott is saying is likely because IT IS. I have a large circle of IU fans and they range across the spectrum of intensity and exactly ZERO have anything less than complete apathy towards Archie and the program AT BEST.

[NotIThatLives]

6 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

You know all this how, Scott? Got your crystal ball all fired up?

You State things as absolutes to fit your argument, but you really have no idea how things would play out. What if, instead the fan base goes all out to back the team because it’s their team?Regardless of feelings about the coach. What if the players finally get fed up with all the bs and play like their hair is on fire?

 I have no clue if my scenario is possible, on the other hand you don’t either regarding yours. 

Very little in all this is black and white so don’t portray your views as inevitable 

I could see Galloway and Leal having an effect like Olidipo and Sheehey did their freshman to sophomore off season.  It was rumored that them along with Hulls led a relentless grind that changed the culture.  They all decided they were sick of losing. 

They went 12-20 to 27-9.  Big big roster differences.  I'm hoping we see Galloway and Leal as juniors and seniors with studs all around them and them being the culture leaders.  I think Geronimo can play a major role here as well but I single those 2 out as raised Hoosiers.  

Now it's up to the coach to surround them with more talent willing to work.  

[BADGERVOL]

10 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I could see Galloway and Leal having an effect like Olidipo and Sheehey did their freshman to sophomore off season.  It was rumored that them along with Hulls led a relentless grind that changed the culture.  They all decided they were sick of losing. 

They went 12-20 to 27-9.  Big big roster differences.  I'm hoping we see Galloway and Leal as juniors and seniors with studs all around them and them being the culture leaders.  I think Geronimo can play a major role here as well but I single those 2 out as raised Hoosiers.  

Now it's up to the coach to surround them with more talent willing to work.  

What evidence do you have to support that? There were many signs pointing that what we saw with Hulls, Will and Victor and others was looking like that might be coming. I don’t see any of that now. What do you see or hear that makes you believe reasonably that could be what’s about to happen? Or are you just saying you’d like for it to happen and it’s at least possible?

[IUCrazy2]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

My question to the whole fan base including myself

If IU hires a new coach and you don't like it what will you do?  Will you stop watching games or will you still back the team.  I have certain guys I would like to see here but whoever they would hire I will back them like I have every other coach.  I think there would be only a couple where it would make me think about being an IU fan of IU(Calapari, Pitino)

I will give anyone a chance.

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, BADGERVOL said:

What evidence do you have to support that? There were many signs pointing that what we saw with Hulls, Will and Victor and others was looking like that might be coming. I don’t see any of that now. What do you see or hear that makes you believe reasonably that could be what’s about to happen? Or are you just saying you’d like for it to happen and it’s at least possible?

Clearly they need talent around them but unless we have been lied to, Leal works his arse off.  He gets it.  I think Galloway does to.  

[Steubenhoosier]

7 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

“Come on man!” Yes it is completely possible what you’re saying COULD happen, but that is not at all what is most reasonable to assume. You know darn well if you had to bet your life savings on your scenario vs what Scott is saying is likely you’d put it on what Scott is saying is likely because IT IS. I have a large circle of IU fans and they range across the spectrum of intensity and exactly ZERO have anything less than complete apathy towards Archie and the program AT BEST.

Your large circle probably makes up what, .00001 of all the IU Alumni and fans? Your circle is really what this thread has become, a bunch of people all with the same mindset feeding the fires of the “fire Archie “ mantra. Opposing opinions aren’t welcome and oftentimes scorned.

As I said before, no one knows with certainty, including myself, what next year will look like. My viewpoint is that CAM has not been given enough time to pull the rug out from under him. And I am not going to buy into the doom and gloom prevalent here. 

A few of us have to keep this place from becoming a closed circle... kinda like your friends 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Your large circle probably makes up what, .00001 of all the IU Alumni and fans? Your circle is really what this thread has become, a bunch of people all with the same mindset feeding the fires of the “fire Archie “ mantra. Opposing opinions aren’t welcome and oftentimes scorned.

As I said before, no one knows with certainty, including myself, what next year will look like. My viewpoint is that CAM has not been given enough time to pull the rug out from under him. And I am not going to buy into the doom and gloom prevalent here. 

A few of us have to keep this place from becoming a closed circle... kinda like your friends 

In the last week I went to other IU boards and Facebook as well and it is a lot worse on some of those boards.  I will say that at least 85% which probably is low is done with Archie.  I have listened to many podcast locally and nationally and Most think it is time for a change.  I have read where former players are very upset with the program and the direction it is going.  Don't act like that this board is the only place these talks are  being discussed.

[BADGERVOL]

1 minute ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Your large circle probably makes up what, .00001 of all the IU Alumni and fans? Your circle is really what this thread has become, a bunch of people all with the same mindset feeding the fires of the “fire Archie “ mantra. Opposing opinions aren’t welcome and oftentimes scorned.

As I said before, no one knows with certainty, including myself, what next year will look like. My viewpoint is that CAM has not been given enough time to pull the rug out from under him. And I am not going to buy into the doom and gloom prevalent here. 

A few of us have to keep this place from becoming a closed circle... kinda like your friends 

You’re absolutely right my friends make up a small part. So is your view and your circle. There’s no data out there to measure “apathy” and how prevalent it is. And yes ANYTHING is possible. It’s “possible” half our roster transfers and a bunch of 5 star recruits all have a vision they’re supposed to go to IU and we win a National title next year. It’s “possible” Archie is about to go on a tear and ultimately become the next Coach K.

That’s not what’s reasonable. What’s reasonable is “it’s over” and “apathy is growing by leaps and bounds.” And to argue “you don’t know that for a fact” is like saying “it’s possible I can win the lottery if I sell my house and buy lotto tickets with the money.” yes it is. But you don’t do that, you take the sensible route. 

[NotIThatLives]

3 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

What evidence do you have to support that? There were many signs pointing that what we saw with Hulls, Will and Victor and others was looking like that might be coming. I don’t see any of that now. What do you see or hear that makes you believe reasonably that could be what’s about to happen? Or are you just saying you’d like for it to happen and it’s at least possible?

I guess I'm not done lol.  They were 12-20.  That's horrible.  Worse than this team.  People were pissed at CTC for trying to ram dribble drive down our throats when that team would have been much better than record had they simply moved without the ball, set screens, and freed up shooters.  Watford, Hulls, Roth, even Elston could shoot bit couldn't pentrate past a chair.  

Sheehey and Olidipo brought the swag.  Cody brought the talent.  

Compare that with next year's roster, no.  2-3 years down the road with the right coach and some help on the recruiting front, Leal and Galloway can help lead the Renaissance.  Imo

[BADGERVOL]

Just now, NotIThatLives said:

I guess I'm not done lol.  They were 12-20.  That's horrible.  Worse than this team.  People were pissed at CTC for trying to ram dribble drive down our throats when that team would have been much better than record had they simply moved without the ball, set screens, and freed up shooters.  Watford, Hulls, Roth, even Elston could shoot bit couldn't pentrate past a chair.  

Sheehey and Olidipo brought the swag.  Cody brought the talent.  

Compare that with next year's roster, no.  2-3 years down the road with the right coach and some help on the recruiting front, Leal and Galloway can help lead the Renaissance.  Imo

I agree if we look 2-3 years and with the right coach. For sure. No doubt. I don’t believe this roster is garbage. I think there’s quite a few SOLID pieces to build around. I LOVE some of the potential on this roster. 💪🏻

[Sea Turtle]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

and thinks IU expectations are outlandish

You're just going to die on this hill aren't you?

Sure, some were comparing us to Nebraska football but that's not an accurate comparison. Their state talent dried up and the wishbone died.

Others were like 'if he can't win at Indiana then he sure can't win here'.

[BADGERVOL]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

In the last week I went to other IU boards and Facebook as well and it is a lot worse on some of those boards.  I will say that at least 85% which probably is low is done with Archie.  I have listened to many podcast locally and nationally and Most think it is time for a change.  I have read where former players are very upset with the program and the direction it is going.  Don't act like that this board is the only place these talks are  being discussed.

It’s been said for decades that message boards seem to be a cross section of the general audience or fan base. I think that’s probably pretty true. Prove it? Nope. But seems to appear that way.
 

And what I’ve never seen or experienced is message boards turn on a coach, the school fires him, and there’s an uproar from the general fanbase saying “what the heck?! The masses love our coach and believe in our future! It was just the crazy message board people who didn’t!” 😂 

[NotIThatLives]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

In the last week I went to other IU boards and Facebook as well and it is a lot worse on some of those boards.  I will say that at least 85% which probably is low is done with Archie.  I have listened to many podcast locally and nationally and Most think it is time for a change.  I have read where former players are very upset with the program and the direction it is going.  Don't act like that this board is the only place these talks are  being discussed.

Facebook is actually pretty revealing.  People, posting publicly, trashing CAM, players, and administration.  If someone wanted to get some people fired for unprofessional, unadult behavior, demeaning and abusive language towards young men, go no farther than and @iubb facebook thread.  Highlighting a good try by the team.  holy moly this place is PG and tame compared to what's on Facebook and we get to hide behind our anonymity.

[mrflynn03]

Maybe I should apply for the job and some of you can be my assistants doing the X'OS. I will be the ass kicker and motivater and help teach these guys how to make layups and free throws.  You guys can do the rest. LoL!

 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Facebook is actually pretty revealing.  People, posting publicly, trashing CAM, players, and administration.  If someone wanted to get some people fired for unprofessional, unadult behavior, demeaning and abusive language towards young men, go no farther than and @iubb facebook thread.  Highlighting a good try by the team.  holy moly this place is PG and tame compared to what's on Facebook and we get to hide behind our anonymity.

They need to moderate Facebook because it is ridiculous what they say on there.  I am fine with critiquing play or coaching but never make it personal and attack their character. 

[NotIThatLives]

3 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

I agree if we look 2-3 years and with the right coach. For sure. No doubt. I don’t believe this roster is garbage. I think there’s quite a few SOLID pieces to build around. I LOVE some of the potential on this roster. 💪🏻

It's also easy to look in hindsight or what Hulls, Watford, Sheehey, and Olidipo became.  But they worked.  They were gym rats.  I could see a big jump next year but I'm a huge homer.  Bottom line is we shouldn't be this bad.  The players shouldn't act like they are having fun at the free throw line getting your butt handed to you for the 5th time straight on your home court by your biggest in state opponent.  Something isn't clicking right with leadership.  Players or staff have to decide if they are sick and tired of losing like that 10-11 crew did.  

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

They need to moderate Facebook because it is ridiculous what they say on there.  I am fine with critiquing play or coaching but never make it personal and attack their character. 

It's wild.  In cancel culture, it's seriously alarming how ridiculous people behave on there and I'm extremely pro free speech.  

I converse with teachers, insurance guys, mortgage guys, firefighters, construction guys, guys at church, neighbors.  Basically no one cares anymore and is ready for a new coach.  It's sad and embarrassing.  

[Fundamentals]

Woke this morning thinking about the numerous ways and unknowns that could lead to a rapid turnaround or short term chaos.   To wit:

Let’s say Archie stays

1. TJD gone

2. Race gone (Phinisee slip in postgame interview)

3. Other players transferring out?

4. Does Archie tap into the multiple players who could be on the move, and do they want to come here?

5. Same, JUCO options

6. And lastly, Archie remains, transfers add little, our roster is depleted, particularly for bigs, and IU limps to a worse record than this year, and Archie is gone, delaying the rebuild further, due to more roster turnover and the rare open transfer year not producing some new blood to the roster

 

Archie leaves

1. On hook for buyout until rehired

2. Risk of not getting new hire right

3. Established coaches won’t want rebuild that it will take to get back to “solid program” level

4. Several transfer, or, several wait to see who new hire is

5. Either way, our NCAA drought looks to continue for another few years beyond Archie. 
 

The best move for everyone is to make the change now before it becomes a considerable rebuild. Remove Archie, get the hire right, grab a kid or two from portal or new coach brings some with him, and we can bounce back quickly

[NCHoosier32]

31 minutes ago, Fundamentals said:

Woke this morning thinking about the numerous ways and unknowns that could lead to a rapid turnaround or short term chaos.   To wit:

Let’s say Archie stays

1. TJD gone

2. Race gone (Phinisee slip in postgame interview)

3. Other players transferring out?

4. Does Archie tap into the multiple players who could be on the move, and do they want to come here?

5. Same, JUCO options

6. And lastly, Archie remains, transfers add little, our roster is depleted, particularly for bigs, and IU limps to a worse record than this year, and Archie is gone, delaying the rebuild further, due to more roster turnover and the rare open transfer year not producing some new blood to the roster

 

Archie leaves

1. On hook for buyout until rehired

2. Risk of not getting new hire right

3. Established coaches won’t want rebuild that it will take to get back to “solid program” level

4. Several transfer, or, several wait to see who new hire is

5. Either way, our NCAA drought looks to continue for another few years beyond Archie. 
 

The best move for everyone is to make the change now before it becomes a considerable rebuild. Remove Archie, get the hire right, grab a kid or two from portal or new coach brings some with him, and we can bounce back quickly

this does not scream optimism

[Billingsley99]

15 hours ago, IUFLA said:

That was my statement...Race is not mentioned in that sentence...
I'll just ask, do you think the injuries to Joey and Armaan have impacted our season?

They have for sure and thats one of my issues with CAM. We were mad at Crean for too many offers and Creaning but we now have 2 open schollys that might have been better served on some subs that are not freshman.  I see lots of coaches find ways to overcome injuries but that's the first excuse people use to defend CAM, well the second after getting rid of Creans players 

[Billingsley99]

14 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Funny how injuries to Henderson, Coverdale, May, Kitchel and Landon Turner are brought up in the discussions on what might have been, but yet injuries over the last few years aren't important.

Because 1 coach had a team competing for national championships and the competing to be the laughing stock of the conference 

[Feathery]

8 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Your large circle probably makes up what, .00001 of all the IU Alumni and fans? Your circle is really what this thread has become, a bunch of people all with the same mindset feeding the fires of the “fire Archie “ mantra. Opposing opinions aren’t welcome and oftentimes scorned.

As I said before, no one knows with certainty, including myself, what next year will look like. My viewpoint is that CAM has not been given enough time to pull the rug out from under him. And I am not going to buy into the doom and gloom prevalent here. 

A few of us have to keep this place from becoming a closed circle... kinda like your friends 

Not given enough time?
 

How much time would you give a coach? How many years does he get until he must finish with a winning conference record? How many years does a coach get to install his system and get his players? How many years does it take to get old and stay old? 

I’m all for giving some slack to a new hire. But it’s been 4 years. No reason to go beyond that when he can’t even beat his rival ONE time. In year four his defense in conference is one of the worst.