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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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14 hours ago, IUFLA said:

I understand...but in my estimation, there are reasons for that...some call them excuses, but whatever...

I've said this over and over, but it falls on deaf ears...

If we have everyone back save Al next year, and we're still struggling to finish .500 in the conference next year, let the search begin...we're no worse off than we are now...of course, there's always the possibility we have a good/great year...

In my mind, and this is simply my opinion, we'll be setting IU basketball back another 5 years if we go with more than a few of the names mentioned over in the other thread...the majority of them as a matter of fact...

To play devils advocate then, if this group would be so good why not run it back with a new coach that can bring some energy and life and excitement to the program.  Someone that can motivate and get the most out of them. You keep saying the fire Archie group does not listen and call the things excuses etc.. Juwan Howard is doing well brought a new something to a team that was already good but with some oh here he does not get credit but yet ww say that a new Coach sets us back 5 years.  Hire the right Coach and It won't. If CAM has done such a great job putting this team together any Coach should be able to win with them right? If so get someone that says more than Coach speak, that the kids go to war for. If CAM is on the hot seat I don't see much urgency in his guys to try and keep him from being fired. Too many times the most obvious answer is correct, CAM is not nor will he get in done at Indiana. Time to.move on cut bait and find a way to land a Whale😀

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I have several family members and friends who have graduated from Purdue. They don’t even talk trash talk anymore because they say it’s no fun because IU is so bad they feel sorry for us! How such a proud program has become such an afterthought on everyone schedules. Every team on our schedule no matter where the game is played checks the game should win. 

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2 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

Time for sure. Time for the admin to hire and IU guy. Alford, Lewis, Fife, Guyton, Woodson, Whitman, You want to bring the Hoosiers back to life. Bring back one of our own. 

Would Kansas, UK, UNC or UCLA use the same criteria? Would they or any of our competitors in the B1G consider any of those names? I think we know the answer. While having an IU guy sounds nice, the coaching tree is spindly.

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1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

Hire the right Coach

And there's the key...

To be honest, from the group of names I see people mention as a viable replacement, there are only one or two that could do what you say in the rest of your post. And they would be difficult to get to IU. 

If Dolson decides to make a change, it's gotta be a home run, and he knows it. This is the hire, if made, that's going to define his AD tenure at IU. He was there during the 1985 "Season on the Brink" and the 1987 Championship team. He saw what a dysfunctional team looks like and the difference a couple of complimentary players can make when added to a solid core. 

It's just my belief, and a few others, that giving CAM next year in the face of all the obstacles he's faced in his time at IU is the right thing to do. I think he's got a pretty good core of players, and the additions might just be what we need.

No one has to agree with that opinion but I'd hope people would at least respect my right to express it.

I was scolded by a poster on this board for "the way you talk to people." I was told "that's not what this board is about." Yet I had people following every post I made with the anti-Archie stuff. Even pre game stuff that I tried to provide. Simply because I had a different opinion than they do.

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10 hours ago, Feathery said:

Brunk isn’t good enough for this level and isn’t a contributor for a top Big Ten team. You and I clearly rate his level of play differently. He brings energy for a bottom of the conference team. Armaan being hobbled or healthy isn’t adding more W’s to the win column unfortunately. A heathy Armaan IU team also lost to NW. The team just isn’t good enough when 100% healthy, which goes on Archie. There is no excuse you can give me, and probably a few others, that will change my mind. 

Brunk is basically the same player as another I brought up...Austin Davis. Davis contributes to a top tier B1G team. So do player like Giorgi Bezhanishvilli, and Zed Key who have like skills.

I made a statement that Juwan Howard would tell you how valuable Davis is. Well, Howard named Davis a team captain for this year. The Dickinson kid saw the benefits  of playing against him in practice every day. In games, it allows Howard to put in a player when Dickinson is in foul trouble, struggling, or just simply needs a rest that doesn't lose much for his team. He's a good body up defender and a tricky scorer around the basket. He can take on the Kofi Cockburn's and Luka Garza's of the world and do a good job.

Because of Brunk's injury, we have to play a 6'6 freshman out of position a lot.

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24 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Because of Brunk's injury, we have to play a 6'6 freshman out of position a lot.

We do.  And I know this is beating a dead horse, but 2 open scholarships.  We could have had those additional players you mention in your post as the missing pieces this year.

"Brunk got hurt late, right before the season started.  Who could have foreseen that?"  Nobody knows the future, but sometimes you have to plan as best you can.  So we had a guy who had injuries to Romeo, Rob x 2, Race x 2, Jerome, I believe Joey sat some last year for injuries...am I forgetting anyone?  People could point to that and say he is snake bit with injuries and it is not fair to judge.  To a degree they may be right that he has dealt with the injury bug, but, and this is a big one, he has left scholarships on the table just about every year.  "People transfer", they do.  However, you can grab a guy as your 12th or 13th scholarship and say this is a guy that is going to sit for a year or 2 and develop.  You can grab a transfer to add depth.  There are things that can be done so the likelihood of playing a 6'6" freshman out of position is a little less.

There are pieces on this team that could be something next year.  Could.  I am not convinced Miller can do anything with them.  If he does get a chance though, my hope is that whatever happens next season if he is at the helm is a definitive answer.  Like 25-6 and we are killing it or 16-15 and it is over.  The worst thing that could happen IMO is keeping him another year and finishing 20-11 and squeaking into the tournament.

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18 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Brunk is basically the same player as another I brought up...Austin Davis. Davis contributes to a top tier B1G team. So do player like Giorgi Bezhanishvilli, and Zed Key who have like skills.

I made a statement that Juwan Howard would tell you how valuable Davis is. Well, Howard named Davis a team captain for this year. The Dickinson kid saw the benefits  of playing against him in practice every day. In games, it allows Howard to put in a player when Dickinson is in foul trouble, struggling, or just simply needs a rest that doesn't lose much for his team. He's a good body up defender and a tricky scorer around the basket. He can take on the Kofi Cockburn's and Luka Garza's of the world and do a good job.

Because of Brunk's injury, we have to play a 6'6 freshman out of position a lot.

We had to play a 6’6” freshman out of position because Archie decided to hold scholarships instead of using them on grad transfers. He wants to get old and stay old yet when he has one of the youngest teams in conference he holds into scholarships and rolls the dice. Well, he rolled snake eyes. 
 

We won’t ever see eye to eye in this. You want to show patience, which I respect. I’m just out of patience. He got 3.5 years of patience from me. He hasn’t shown me anything that says he will succeed long term.
 

Hypothetical, he stays and next year is decent, top 5 finish.  Now we go into year 6 with no TJD and we haven’t recruited anyone close to his level that is coming to IU. Recruiting in way down right now. We have 1 recruit coming in and IU is ranked 11th in conference for recruiting for 2021. That doesn’t bode well for the future.
 

So we are looking at a situation where we could have 1 decent year and back to the basement of the conference. I have zero faith Archie can turn this ship around. He is likable but not delivering. 

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1 hour ago, jojo123 said:

Time for sure. Time for the admin to hire and IU guy. Alford, Lewis, Fife, Guyton, Woodson, Whitman, You want to bring the Hoosiers back to life. Bring back one of our own. 

The problem with this is that there isn't one that's qualified. 

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10 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

We do.  And I know this is beating a dead horse, but 2 open scholarships.  We could have had those additional players you mention in your post as the missing pieces this year.

"Brunk got hurt late, right before the season started.  Who could have foreseen that?"  Nobody knows the future, but sometimes you have to plan as best you can.  So we had a guy who had injuries to Romeo, Rob x 2, Race x 2, Jerome, I believe Joey sat some last year for injuries...am I forgetting anyone?  People could point to that and say he is snake bit with injuries and it is not fair to judge.  To a degree they may be right that he has dealt with the injury bug, but, and this is a big one, he has left scholarships on the table just about every year.  "People transfer", they do.  However, you can grab a guy as your 12th or 13th scholarship and say this is a guy that is going to sit for a year or 2 and develop.  You can grab a transfer to add depth.  There are things that can be done so the likelihood of playing a 6'6" freshman out of position is a little less.

There are pieces on this team that could be something next year.  Could.  I am not convinced Miller can do anything with them.  If he does get a chance though, my hope is that whatever happens next season if he is at the helm is a definitive answer.  Like 25-6 and we are killing it or 16-15 and it is over.  The worst thing that could happen IMO is keeping him another year and finishing 20-11 and squeaking into the tournament.

 

4 minutes ago, Feathery said:

We had to play a 6’6” freshman out of position because Archie decided to hold scholarships instead of using them on grad transfers. He wants to get old and stay old yet when he has one of the youngest teams in conference he holds into scholarships and rolls the dice. Well, he rolled snake eyes. 
 

We won’t ever see eye to eye in this. You want to show patience, which I respect. I’m just out of patience. He got 3.5 years of patience from me. He hasn’t shown me anything that says he will succeed long term.
 

Hypothetical, he stays and next year is decent, top 5 finish.  Now we go into year 6 with no TJD and we haven’t recruited anyone close to his level that is coming to IU. Recruiting in way down right now. We have 1 recruit coming in and IU is ranked 11th in conference for recruiting for 2021. That doesn’t bode well for the future.
 

So we are looking at a situation where we could have 1 decent year and back to the basement of the conference. I have zero faith Archie can turn this ship around. He is likable but not delivering. 

It's a delicate balance. What big man grad transfer with any skills would look at a frontcourt of Race, TJD, and Brunk (for basically 2 spots) and think there's a lot of playing time there?

We had 2 kids like you're talking about, Forrester and Moore, transfer out because they didn't see any time available.

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11 minutes ago, Feathery said:

We had to play a 6’6” freshman out of position because Archie decided to hold scholarships instead of using them on grad transfers. He wants to get old and stay old yet when he has one of the youngest teams in conference he holds into scholarships and rolls the dice. Well, he rolled snake eyes. 
 

We won’t ever see eye to eye in this. You want to show patience, which I respect. I’m just out of patience. He got 3.5 years of patience from me. He hasn’t shown me anything that says he will succeed long term.
 

Hypothetical, he stays and next year is decent, top 5 finish.  Now we go into year 6 with no TJD and we haven’t recruited anyone close to his level that is coming to IU. Recruiting in way down right now. We have 1 recruit coming in and IU is ranked 11th in conference for recruiting for 2021. That doesn’t bode well for the future.
 

So we are looking at a situation where we could have 1 decent year and back to the basement of the conference. I have zero faith Archie can turn this ship around. He is likable but not delivering. 

Exactly it comes down to the recruiting and the fact we still have scholarship spots available.. how do you not fill the spots and try to play the best lineup you can.

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2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

 

It's a delicate balance. What big man grad transfer with any skills would look at a frontcourt of Race, TJD, and Brunk (for basically 2 spots) and think there's a lot of playing time there?

We had 2 kids like you're talking about, Forrester and Moore, transfer out because they didn't see any time available.

Honestly, coming into the year, Race and Brunk were not anything special.  I know that may step on some toes but if I am bringing a transfer, I am looking for a guy who puts both of them on the bench.  Joey was 6.8 pts and 5.2 rebounds a game last year and Race was 3.7 point and 3.9 rebounds.  Those are not super scary stat lines to me if I am a transfer candidate.

To Race's credit, he has improved both of those this year, but if you were a guy looking to transfer, I am thinking there are quite a few players who would think, "I could beat out those guys for playing time."

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10 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

 

It's a delicate balance. What big man grad transfer with any skills would look at a frontcourt of Race, TJD, and Brunk (for basically 2 spots) and think there's a lot of playing time there?

We had 2 kids like you're talking about, Forrester and Moore, transfer out because they didn't see any time available.

One last thing, I don't want you to feel like you are getting picked on.  We disagree on this thing but I think we both want Indiana to do well in the worst way.

Whether you win and Archie gets more time, or I win and we have a new guy, I hope that next year is the year we finally start turning things around.  Having recruiting and who our next coach is going to be as the most interesting things about this team is not ideal.  We should be talking seeding and potential matchups right now.

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3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

One last thing, I don't want you to feel like you are getting picked on.  We disagree on this thing but I think we both want Indiana to do well in the worst way.

Whether you win and Archie gets more time, or I win and we have a new guy, I hope that next year is the year we finally start turning things around.  Having recruiting and who our next coach is going to be as the most interesting things about this team is not ideal.  We should be talking seeding and potential matchups right now.

I don't feel picked on at all. People who want to engage in serious basketball debate welcome...

So here's the list of 2020-21 grad transfers that were immediately eligible. Interesting group. Best big man was Liam Roberts (who's uncle surprisingly got promoted to the Gophers associate head coach position the day he entered the portal). But I seriously doubt any of them would have looked at our roster with a guy who started every game save one (Brunk) a guy who was getting good minutes at the end of the year (Race) and an emerging star (TJD) and thought there were a bunch of minutes to be had. Most if these guys don't go into the portal looking to be a backup...even if that's the ceiling of their potential...

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3 hours ago, Fundamentals said:

Woke this morning thinking about the numerous ways and unknowns that could lead to a rapid turnaround or short term chaos.   To wit:

Let’s say Archie stays

1. TJD gone

2. Race gone (Phinisee slip in postgame interview)

3. Other players transferring out?

4. Does Archie tap into the multiple players who could be on the move, and do they want to come here?

5. Same, JUCO options

6. And lastly, Archie remains, transfers add little, our roster is depleted, particularly for bigs, and IU limps to a worse record than this year, and Archie is gone, delaying the rebuild further, due to more roster turnover and the rare open transfer year not producing some new blood to the roster

 

Archie leaves

1. On hook for buyout until rehired

2. Risk of not getting new hire right

3. Established coaches won’t want rebuild that it will take to get back to “solid program” level

4. Several transfer, or, several wait to see who new hire is

5. Either way, our NCAA drought looks to continue for another few years beyond Archie. 
 

The best move for everyone is to make the change now before it becomes a considerable rebuild. Remove Archie, get the hire right, grab a kid or two from portal or new coach brings some with him, and we can bounce back quickly

This is a fair overview of reality ☝️

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2 hours ago, OLDIUFAN said:

I have several family members and friends who have graduated from Purdue. They don’t even talk trash talk anymore because they say it’s no fun because IU is so bad they feel sorry for us! How such a proud program has become such an afterthought on everyone schedules. Every team on our schedule no matter where the game is played checks the game should win. 

Exact same with WI. They used to feel so good beating IU. Then he went thru the trash talk ME for beating us. Now all my WI friends are somewhere between annoyed we can’t compete and feeling sorry for us. We are a complete laughing stock of the league.

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2 hours ago, jojo123 said:

Time for sure. Time for the admin to hire and IU guy. Alford, Lewis, Fife, Guyton, Woodson, Whitman, You want to bring the Hoosiers back to life. Bring back one of our own. 

“Tell me, do you believe in man to man or a zone defense?”

”Zone defense is the only thing we’ve played in the past and the only thing that’ll work this year.”

synopsis: We gotta hire outside folks...our movie even proves that.

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