Hippopotamo Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 I’ve thought about this situation a lot, and I really think that we’re dealing with two separate issues that have now blended into one. I think it’s very possible that Archie did get a raw deal in some aspects and has dealt with unnecessary injuries and other challenges that were outside of his control. However, perception is reality and with the results being the way they have I think it’s best for everyone to move on at this point. I really think the Romeo season sort of sealed his fate. It seemed like recruiting took a slight turn for the worst outside of Lander and it has felt like Archie has been trying to dig out of this hole for two seasons without any sort of consistency. Archie may be a phenomenal coach and I expect him to be successful at his next stop. However, I think his chance to really turn things around has passed, and it’s time for everyone to move on and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: Winning cures all ails... Winning also creates problems as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Just now, rico said: Winning also creates problems as well... Not as many as losing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: Not as many as losing! I will use your Cubs as an example. This fan base is attached to RMK...and some of them weren't even alive in his hey day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Come on man...that literally translate to change for change sake... And there are no assurances that a change would make it better...not with 90% of the names I've seen bandied about... No, it does not. My car doesn't start in the morning. You are saying to sit there and keep turning the key and eventually it may work out. I am saying I have been turning the key for hours with the same result and now it is time to do something, anything different. Check the plugs. Check the battery. See if the starter needs replace. Check the alternator. That is change because the current method is failing. You are saying to maybe try and turn the key for another hour because if Inpick one of those other things, they may not fix the problem and then I am in the same spot in an hour. "You are just changing to change." I say that the likelihood of my car magically starting in the next hour by continuing to do what I have done fall somewhere between slim and none, so trying literally any of those other things is a worthwhile change because even if they fail, they were better attempts at a solution then staying the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUProfessor Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: If TJD stays, the expectations skyrocket...I'd take this team... TJD Brunk Race Logan Jerome Armaan Lander Stewart Rob Anthony Jordan Trey and think they can indeed contend, especially with what the top tier teams are losing... I don't see it. This roster is sorely lacking elite B1G caliber talent. Just substituting Stewart for Durham isn't going to make this a top 3 backcourt, for instance (unless Lander develops into a Top 5 pick next year). So I don't doubt that next year's results would be improved, but you'd probably still be looking at a 7-10 seed in the dance, and then what? There isn't a steady stream of elite talent entering the program or waiting in the wings, and I'm not sure that a 5th or 6th place finish in the B1G is going to change that given the optics of Archie being on the hot seat. Seems like the smarter move is to rip the band-aid off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said: No, it does not. My car doesn't start in the morning. You are saying to sit there and keep turning the key and eventually it may work out. I am saying I have been turning the key for hours with the same result and now it is time to do something, anything different. Check the plugs. Check the battery. See if the starter needs replace. Check the alternator. That is change because the current method is failing. You are saying to maybe try and turn the key for another hour because if Inpick one of those other things, they may not fix the problem and then I am in the same spot in an hour. "You are just changing to change." I say that the likelihood of my car magically starting in the next hour by continuing to do what I have done fall somewhere between slim and none, so trying literally any of those other things is a worthwhile change because even if they fail, they were better attempts at a solution then staying the course. What if you just flooded it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JABBATHEHOOSIER Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Come on man...that literally translate to change for change sake... And there are no assurances that a change would make it better...not with 90% of the names I've seen bandied about... You can't accept mediocrity for the sake of being scared of the unknown. In Archie's 4 years as coach his Big Ten Standings are as follows 1st year - 7th 2nd year - 9th 3rd year - 11th 4th year - 10th So you would rather stand put with those standings rather than try to get better? My employer wouldn't keep me around if my job performance was so mediocre. They would keep striving to bring somebody in who was better capable of performing the job at a higher level. Nothing is for sure in life. A new coach may perform worse, that's possible. But you cannot keep accepting mediocrity due to fear of getting worse. You should be more fearful of not changing and getting worse. Especially when your current path has shown no positive signs of lasting improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Just now, IUProfessor said: I don't see it. This roster is sorely lacking elite B1G caliber talent. Just substituting Stewart for Durham isn't going to make this a top 3 backcourt, for instance (unless Lander develops into a Top 5 pick next year). So I don't doubt that next year's results would be improved, but you'd probably still be looking at a 7-10 seed in the dance, and then what? There isn't a steady stream of elite talent entering the program or waiting in the wings, and I'm not sure that a 5th or 6th place finish in the B1G is going to change that given the optics of Archie being on the hot seat. Seems like the smarter move is to rip the band-aid off now. That's the great thing about college sports...Players come and go according to their class/other playing options...With that, teams move up or down in the standings... Take away Livers, Smith, and Brooks from Michigan... Ayo and Kofi from Illinois...Garza from Iowa...Kyle Young and CJ Walker from Ohio State...That's experience, and experience wins in the B1G...Those players will more than likely be gone next year... Without TJD, I still think we'll be in the top 4 in the conference... We're gaining experience, and that's exactly what we need...Armaan made huge strides last year...who out of our freshmen makes them next year? That's the fun of college basketball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JugRox Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, IUFLA said: If TJD stays, the expectations skyrocket...I'd take this team... TJD Brunk Race Logan Jerome Armaan Lander Stewart Rob Anthony Jordan Trey and think they can indeed contend, especially with what the top tier teams are losing... Miller is a great coach and I am still a fan. He will be successful in the future wherever he is. But, TJD is %99.9 gone. And without him I don't see how this team takes a step forward next year without some big incoming transfers. Could they take a small step forward in a weaker Big Ten? Sure. But there won't be the talent on roster to have the season that is going to satisfy this fanbase. Recruiting will dip because Miller is basically dead man walking. My fear is if Miller stays one more year and then is fired, the talent left will resemble what Crean left. It will take that much more time to rebuild. Miller was unlucky at IU with the strength of the Big Ten and injuries, but he hasn't improved as a coach from the first season. IU is doing the exact same thing they did when ISU beat them by 30 at home Miller's first game. Why should the fans expect anything different next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: What if you just flooded it? Then I need to replace the driver. I am on board for that too. I fault the driver(s) of the athletic department for where we are at far more than Miller. However, I can't rehire Myles Brand from the dead so I can fire him. Or bring Herbert back to fire him...or Greenspan...or Glass....I am completely fine with replacing the driver, but that option is not on the table at the moment. In a fair world it would be, Miller is partially a product of his own failures but there is much truth in the idea that each new guy that does not do well is having his failures compounded by past failures. And those past failures fall on the administration at IU IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 OK, I promised myself I wouldn't get tangled in this web again, and I did...My bad... Everyone is entitled to their opinion here, and that's the great thing... And as I said, I'll support whatever the administration decides...But the old "be careful what you wish for" keeps going through my mind... With that, I'll tip out here... Good luck to all of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JABBATHEHOOSIER Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 minute ago, JugRox said: My fear is if Miller stays one more year and then is fired, the talent left will resemble what Crean left. It will take that much more time to rebuild. The roster Coach Crean left for Miller is better than anything Archie has assembled since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsStoller Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Boston College Men's Basketball Coaching Search Odds - HoopDirt Hat tip to Treesh on Btown Banners - it's where I saw this. Interesting, and nice compilation. Scroll to 2nd from last on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 I love it when posters post their opinions as absolutes with %'s. Cracks me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: OK, I promised myself I wouldn't get tangled in this web again, and I did...My bad... Everyone is entitled to their opinion here, and that's the great thing... And as I said, I'll support whatever the administration decides...But the old "be careful what you wish for" keeps going through my mind... With that, I'll tip out here... Good luck to all of us... Meet me at the bar, I will buy the first round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, IUFLA said: If TJD stays, the expectations skyrocket...I'd take this team... TJD Brunk Race Logan Jerome Armaan Lander Stewart Rob Anthony Jordan Trey and think they can indeed contend, especially with what the top tier teams are losing... That team is missing one thing in my opinion......a "Mark Jackson" type player. We dont need a PG that takes over the game necessarily, but one that would get in TJD's ear and keep him, well, pissed off all game. One that would stroke the ego of our "shooters" to keep their confidence up. And finally, one that acts quickly and with purpose and gets the ball where it needs to be when it needs to be there. I'm basing most of this off of the 30 for 30 with the Pacers/Knicks where Mark talked about being in Reggie's ear durring the playoffs n egging him on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 TJD would be leaving to make a quick buck, he's a mid 2nd rd pick at best right now. If he goes near the top in rd 2 he'd be around $1.5 mil, by year 3 he'd earn around $1.8 mil for that year. If he's near the bottom he'll be much lower than that. If he returns for one more year, can develop some sort of respectable outside shot and it moves his draft stock to say a mid 1st rd pick his first year would be approx. $2.5 mil, by year 3 he'd be at around $3 mil for that year. If he truly can develop an outside shot while returning he'll earn $3 mil or more at a min by staying one more year. I'd go that route myself but then again I'm not a 18 year old with millions of dollar signs in my line of sight. Is Brunk returning or no? I thought he graduated this spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJack Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 11 hours ago, tdhoosier said: He said Cal was interested after Sampson was fired too. Can someone see if Brian Evens will ask if he will be interested after CAM is gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippopotamo Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said: Is Brunk returning or no? I thought he graduated this spring? There’s speculation he’s coming back because he didn’t participate in senior day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargaFlorio Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 Perhaps Dolson and the BOT have been working on something else . . . Quote NEWS: Tom Allen has agreed to a restructured contract that will bump his average annual pay to $4.9 million. This is the largest contract IU athletics has ever handed out. #iufb Dolson . . . Quote "I thank President McRobbie and the Board of Trustees for their support throughout this process https://iuhoosiers.com/news/2021/3/8/indiana-university-iu-head-football-coach-tom-allen-agree-to-restructured-deal-through-2027.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaloisGroupe Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said: There’s speculation he’s coming back because he didn’t participate in senior day. I heard an interview of his after senior day where his return would be decided in discussions with the coaching staff after the season. He said he did not want to participate in senior day because it would feel like closing the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, JJack said: Can someone see if Brian Evens will ask if he will be interested after CAM is gone? Again, those who were interested in the summary...I still recommend listening. It kinda made me feel better about who we can land. This is still a desirable job. Evans made it sounded like we never really completely opened up our options - never interviewed many guys. (For all 3 coaching searches). All the way back to the Cal story he told - if the admin didn’t want Cal because the perception he was shady then that is fine - his overall point was that you need to hear the guy out. At the time Cal lost only something like 3 games in 2 years and he was ready to dance out of Memphis for an opportunity to coach here. And as said above, he STILL wanted the job after Sampson was fired. Hate or love Cal....let the guy pitch you. Even for the last coach search, Evans said that Dolson told him that Archie was Glass’s guy form day 1. He was the target and he didn’t really want to open up the search further because he didn’t like flying (to interview candidates). Evans found this strange because he thought we still had enough pull for candidates to come visit us. But again, we’ll never know who we had a realistic shot at because we didn’t conduct an expansive search. If there’s a silver lining, Evans seemed (my perception) to have confidence in Dolson actually do a legitimate coaching search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsStoller Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said: I heard an interview of his after senior day where his return would be decided in discussions with the coaching staff after the season. He said he did not want to participate in senior day because it would feel like closing the door. Not to venture too far off topic, but I really like Joey Brunk. Just a great young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaloisGroupe Posted March 8, 2021 Report Share Posted March 8, 2021 53 minutes ago, IUFLA said: If TJD stays, the expectations skyrocket...I'd take this team... TJD Brunk Race Logan Jerome Armaan Lander Stewart Rob Anthony Jordan Trey and think they can indeed contend, especially with what the top tier teams are losing... This would be the most balanced team in a long while. Bigs to spell TJD & Race (Brunk and Logan). Shooters to help out if Armaan needs to rest a foot longer (Stewart and Leal). I do believe that COVID cancelling the end of the season really hurt any momentum that CAM could have had. IF we had won a game or two in the big dance, the excitement in Indiana might have pushed a recruit or two our way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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