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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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4 minutes ago, madmax said:

I know I am probably outnumbered 10,000 to 1 on this, but I still don't want him fired yet. I think you have to give him next year even still. I'm not sure at this point I can justify this my stance(actually I'm quite certain that I can't), but I just desperately don't want another coaching change and want to believe CAM is the guy.

Go ahead, give me my lumps. I welcome them.

I hear where you're coming from. I really like Archie. I really wanted this to work out. I think he's a good guy and this is tough to watch. 

But, unfortunately it's time for a change. If he is back next year, then there needs to be some big changes. IU needs an entire new backcourt. In terms of the backcourt, you keep Franklin and Parker Stewart, every other spots needs to be fair game in the transfer market. 

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36 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don't see how you can keep your job when in year 2 you lose 12 of 13 with Romeo Langford, in year 3 you lose to Purdue in Bob Knight's return to Assembly Hall, and then in year 4 you miss the tournament when the entire thing is being played in Indiana. 

You missed getting run out of Assembly Hall by Indiana State in your debut.

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Just now, BGleas said:

I hear where you're coming from. I really like Archie. I really wanted this to work out. I think he's a good guy and this is tough to watch. 

But, unfortunately it's time for a change. If he is back next year, then there needs to be some big changes. IU needs an entire new backcourt. In terms of the backcourt, you keep Franklin and Parker Stewart, every other spots needs to be fair game in the transfer market. 

Program needs a major overhaul.  Any chance of TJD coming back is gone because why would he want to come back to this poop show

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9 minutes ago, madmax said:

I know I am probably outnumbered 10,000 to 1 on this, but I still don't want him fired yet. I think you have to give him next year even still. I'm not sure at this point I can justify this my stance(actually I'm quite certain that I can't), but I just desperately don't want another coaching change and want to believe CAM is the guy.

Go ahead, give me my lumps. I welcome them.

I remember the first time I had to take a pet in to be euthanized, too. 

 

(Sorry if that's too morbid, but it was the first thing it reminded me of)

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Just got done watching the Big Trip...this school needs to figure this stuff out.  Now.  

Bring in a new guy and that new guy needs to have a come to Jesus conversation with this team.  And anybody who is not bought in to what it is going to take to truly be an Indiana player needs to get the boot.  Watching that almost convinced me that we need an Indiana guy...or someone who has some attachment to what this program was.

I have been holding off on the players all year but I feel the year is over...so gloves off.  With the transfer rules, some of them gotta go.  No hard feelings or anything like that, but I don't think they get it.  The Purdue game at home last year with everything that went on around that game.  You guys don't get it.  And you may be young and it was before your time, but you are.....I will let that last thought go.  But it isn't just the coach that needs readjusted.  I will leave it at that.  Get off bleeping Twitter and shove all that faux swagger in your locker until you have earned the right to act that way.  And STFU about announcers calling you out or fans getting on you or whatever.  

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3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Just got done watching the Big Trip...this school needs to figure this stuff out.  Now.  

Bring in a new guy and that new guy needs to have a come to Jesus conversation with this team.  And anybody who is not bought in to what it is going to take to truly be an Indiana player needs to get the boot.  Watching that almost convinced me that we need an Indiana guy...or someone who has some attachment to what this program was.

I have been holding off on the players all year but I feel the year is over...so gloves off.  With the transfer rules, some of them gotta go.  No hard feelings or anything like that, but I don't think they get it.  The Purdue game at home last year with everything that went on around that game.  You guys don't get it.  And you may be young and it was before your time, but you are.....I will let that last thought go.  But it isn't just the coach that needs readjusted.  I will leave it at that.  Get off bleeping Twitter and shove all that faux swagger in your locker until you have earned the right to act that way.  And STFU about announcers calling you out or fans getting on you or whatever.  

Agree with a lot of this. I still maintain Archie's biggest flaw has been recruiting. He hasn't recruited enough talent, especially at the guard and wing spots, and he hasn't recruited tough, intense, driven players. The players have no emotion, no passion, etc. Maybe that comes from Archie, but either way, the recruiting has been the biggest issue IMO. 

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18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree with a lot of this. I still maintain Archie's biggest flaw has been recruiting. He hasn't recruited enough talent, especially at the guard and wing spots, and he hasn't recruited tough, intense, driven players. The players have no emotion, no passion, etc. Maybe that comes from Archie, but either way, the recruiting has been the biggest issue IMO. 

That’s why he hired Kenya. Thus far it’s yielded Stewart. This off-season may have a 33% roster turnover by August. 

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I guess since I really never coached I just don't understand some of the coaches mind set.  It seems like so many are so stubborn that they won't change their system even if it isn't working.  I see it in football a lot when a DC won't change their defense even when they are getting gashed up and down the field.  

Archie has not tried to change many things things and don't understand why because what he is doing is not working.  He was supposed to be a great defensive coach and that is now not working.  I thought what he needed was a offensive coordinator and Archie take care of the defense.  Michigan under Beilein wasn't playing good defense so he brought in an assistant to take care of that and things took off.

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I guess since I really never coached I just don't understand some of the coaches mind set.  It seems like so many are so stubborn that they won't change their system even if it isn't working.  I see it in football a lot when a DC won't change their defense even when they are getting gashed up and down the field.  

Archie has not tried to change many things things and don't understand why because what he is doing is not working.  He was supposed to be a great defensive coach and that is now not working.  I thought what he needed was a offensive coordinator and Archie take care of the defense.  Michigan under Beilein wasn't playing good defense so he brought in an assistant to take care of that and things took off.

Same could be said if Crean brought in a DC.  It has to be stubbornness. 

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8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I guess since I really never coached I just don't understand some of the coaches mind set.  It seems like so many are so stubborn that they won't change their system even if it isn't working.  I see it in football a lot when a DC won't change their defense even when they are getting gashed up and down the field.  

Archie has not tried to change many things things and don't understand why because what he is doing is not working.  He was supposed to be a great defensive coach and that is now not working.  I thought what he needed was a offensive coordinator and Archie take care of the defense.  Michigan under Beilein wasn't playing good defense so he brought in an assistant to take care of that and things took off.

When Milehiiu was around (still can't believe he's gone), I remember him saying that he felt coaches were becoming less flexible over time. In other words, coaches used to find ways to maximize the abilities of the players they had, whereas today, coaches are set in their ways and the players have to adapt to them. I'm not sure how, or why, that change occurred, but it's tough to argue here. 

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8 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

When Milehiiu was around (still can't believe he's gone), I remember him saying that he felt coaches were becoming less flexible over time. In other words, coaches used to find ways to maximize the abilities of the players they had, whereas today, coaches are set in their ways and the players have to adapt to them. I'm not sure how, or why, that change occurred, but it's tough to argue here. 

RMK changed a lot over the years and changed to things to fit the current team.  Coach K changed many times over the years.  Bob Huggins went from a full court pressing team and now is a half court defense with a fast pace offense.
 

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@IU Scottand @TheWatShot

From my experience playing HS bball and watching RMK teams, this is problem I see with CAM. 

He has his system, and its elementary and easy to defend. He is trying to shove a bunch of square pegs into a round hole.  One dementional offense.

And I know he wants the pack line defense but I'm not sure if it works in the big 10 or if he just cant teach it. 

 

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33 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree with a lot of this. I still maintain Archie's biggest flaw has been recruiting. He hasn't recruited enough talent, especially at the guard and wing spots, and he hasn't recruited tough, intense, driven players. The players have no emotion, no passion, etc. Maybe that comes from Archie, but either way, the recruiting has been the biggest issue IMO. 

I agree recruiting needs to be better, but his coaching outside of games has to be absolutely brutal.  So many issues like passion, development, cohesiveness, layups, free throws, stubbornness to adapt, etc. that have been happening since he's been here.

He's either teaching the wrong things, or cannot connect with kids to get his point across.  I don't see how his biggest issue is anything other than his coaching. I would also argue that his stubbornness with his system/philosophy is a big part of the reason why he can't get better guards to come here.

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10 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

I agree recruiting needs to be better, but his coaching outside of games has to be absolutely brutal.  So many issues like passion, development, cohesiveness, layups, free throws, stubbornness to adapt, etc. that have been happening since he's been here.

He's either teaching the wrong things, or cannot connect with kids to get his point across.  I don't see how his biggest issue is anything other than his coaching. I would also argue that his stubbornness with his system/philosophy is a big part of the reason why he can't get better guards to come here.

I believe his stubbornness will be his downfall.  I think he controls the offense too much and won't let guys play freely.  

And I also dont like and dont think Archie can teach/run the pack line defense.

I understand the idea behind it, but for 4+ years we keep getting burned by threes consistently.  

My opinion, pack line defense sucks for 99.9% of coaches.

Constant motion offense always works if executed and taught properly. 

 

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Agree with a lot of this. I still maintain Archie's biggest flaw has been recruiting. He hasn't recruited enough talent, especially at the guard and wing spots, and he hasn't recruited tough, intense, driven players. The players have no emotion, no passion, etc. Maybe that comes from Archie, but either way, the recruiting has been the biggest issue IMO. 

We can talk all we want about his coaching, but I’m just not sure Archie connects with recruits on a level that allows him to recruit well enough to win championships. Point blank. 

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It’s not that his first game as an IU coach he got blown out by IPFW.

It’s not that he has THE highest recruiting budget IN ALL OF COLLEGE basketball and can’t win any battles inside (Brooks, Kaufman, Furst) or outside (Garcia, Quinoes, Carton, Mohammed).

It’s not that with JMO and lottery pick Romeo Langford that he found a way to lose 12-13 consecutive games and crap the bed against Ohio St in the tourney to make it to the NIT. 

It’s not that he’s never beaten Purdue.

It’s not that we’ve ever been comfortably in the tournament or even sniffed a big ten title.

It’s not that he was point guard in college/background in that role and yet our point guards are the worst contributors right now. 

It’s not that he’s incapable of following up a win against a ranked opponent with another win.

Its not the fact that every assistant other than Ostrom has dipped within 4 years (Schilling, Flint, Elston).

It’s not because coaches who started at the same time or later (Howard, Holtman, Underwood) have found a way to not only compete for conference titles, but for national titles. 

Its not that it’s a lame excuse to say “we could have anticipated this when he didn’t coach at a power 5 program” when Nate Oats, Shaka Smart, and Mike Cronin have figured it out. Not to mention, Daytons following coach won coach of the year and could have won a national title with that team last year.

What it is is that he’s just a sub par coach that’s consistently inconsistent, coupled with the fact that he’s not a Tom Allen type man where even if they never won a game I know Coach Allen is making them better members of their community. 

He needs to go ASAP 

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3 hours ago, BGleas said:

I hear where you're coming from. I really like Archie. I really wanted this to work out. I think he's a good guy and this is tough to watch. 

But, unfortunately it's time for a change. If he is back next year, then there needs to be some big changes. IU needs an entire new backcourt. In terms of the backcourt, you keep Franklin and Parker Stewart, every other spots needs to be fair game in the transfer market. 

This is where I'm at. I won't be shocked if Archie goes on to be successful somewhere else and I'll root for him, I just am really struggling to see how it can work at IU. 

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6 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I guess since I really never coached I just don't understand some of the coaches mind set.  It seems like so many are so stubborn that they won't change their system even if it isn't working.  I see it in football a lot when a DC won't change their defense even when they are getting gashed up and down the field.  

Archie has not tried to change many things things and don't understand why because what he is doing is not working.  He was supposed to be a great defensive coach and that is now not working.  I thought what he needed was a offensive coordinator and Archie take care of the defense.  Michigan under Beilein wasn't playing good defense so he brought in an assistant to take care of that and things took off.

i feel like high school coaches have to adapt and change to their personnel more because they can't recruit (unless they are private).  college coaches have their system and stick to it because they can recruit the right guys to run their system.  seems to not be working for CAM.

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i don't get super emotional after games.  i stay pretty much where i have been.  i don't think we're very good or have a lot of hope that we'll be better next year.  i have also said i would welcome a coaching change, but don't want to fire him just to take a chance on another guy who might not work out.  that said, this game did it for me.  he needs to go.  like today (i know it won't literally be today).  i'll never stop watching and cheering, but he has got to go.  i have also believed he will get one more year regardless, but we really may end up 12-15.  surely that will get him fired?  

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TJD is a talent! He is the only player we have that would start on any other Big Ten Team! He can’t be having fun! If I am him watch these freshmen play I would be like. Hell no I am not going though another year of this. I can get beat up in the NBA but at least I’ll be paid! 
Stewart better be more then advertise if we even hope to be avg!

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