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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Crean WAS able to be good though.  And it was poor roster construction/high turnover that caused his repeated debts. An administration holding him back would have prevented him from being good. 
 

Leadership is about supporting your team.  Had Crean been able to keep Remy and Luke Fischer on the team who know how his tenure goes. But he couldn’t. 

An administration holding you back won't stop you from being good on occasion, it will stop you from being consistently good. 

I'm not saying its all on the admin, but its definitely something that makes a difficult job much more difficult. 

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4 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I think Archie will end up being a lot like Anthony Grant or John Groce.  Groce was good at Ohio but awful at Illinois.  He is now doing well at Akron.  Grant was great at VCU but terrible at Bama.  Now doing well at Dayton.  Some guys are just mid major guys.

Exactly.  People truly underestimate the grind of the Big and all that goes into being a head coach in this conference. It's so much more than coaching. 

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Just now, BGleas said:

An administration holding you back won't stop you from being good on occasion, it will stop you from being consistently good. 

Except as I noted his down years were directly tied to players leaving because of his high turnover.  The years after Zeller. We stunk because we were small inside and lacked shooting. Directly tied to two transfers.  That don’t appear to have been caused by the administration. Those two bad years started Creans death spiral.  Preventing us from getting a quality PG to replace Yogi. 

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1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Except as I noted his down years were directly tied to players leaving because of his high turnover.  The years after Zeller. We stunk because we were small inside and lacked shooting. Directly tied to two transfers.  That don’t appear to have been caused by the administration. Those two bad years started Creans death spiral.  Preventing us from getting a quality PG to replace Yogi. 

We don't know the administration's involvement in some players leaving or not coming. We don't know the details of how the admin puts on some handcuffs, maybe minus that we're not short big men at times, etc. 

Again, Rabjohn's went into a lot of it in a podcast a couple years ago. Some posters, myself included, have at times called for hiring a coach that knows how to operate in the gray area. 

Will IU even allow that? 

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11 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We don't know the administration's involvement in some players leaving or not coming. We don't know the details of how the admin puts on some handcuffs, maybe minus that we're not short big men at times, etc. 

Again, Rabjohn's went into a lot of it in a podcast a couple years ago. Some posters, myself included, have at times called for hiring a coach that knows how to operate in the gray area. 

Will IU even allow that? 

Sure.

 

trustee-shoulders.jpg

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25 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i'm not really an "Archie supporter" or an "Anti-Archie Guy."  i also don't think another year will fix this, but... just to give the argument - what if TJD comes back?  (i don't think they will), what if Stewart is really good?  (i think our expectations are a little high personally), what if Lander is much more ready?  (kind of think we'll see  solid jump), what if?  what if?  

Based on the player development from year to year I'm not banking on Lander having a huge jump with the current staff. I feel the same about Stewart. I'm sure he can shoot lights out but I don't have faith in the coach to make him an even better shooter or even run plays to get him open. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I think Archie will end up being a lot like Anthony Grant or John Groce.  Groce was good at Ohio but awful at Illinois.  He is now doing well at Akron.  Grant was great at VCU but terrible at Bama.  Now doing well at Dayton.  Some guys are just mid major guys.

And if we are being honest, if Sean isn't cheating his butt off and loading his roster with talent, his record wouldn't be that good.  Not to mention all the choke jobs in the tourney.  There was talk of Sean to IU in previous hires but without cheating, he's Archie.  

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54 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Crean WAS able to be good though.  And it was poor roster construction/high turnover that caused his repeated debts. An administration holding him back would have prevented him from being good. 
 

Leadership is about supporting your team.  Had Crean been able to keep Remy and Luke Fischer on the team who know how his tenure goes. But he couldn’t. 

The things we are alluding the administration is doing and or not doing that hurts doesn’t mean they’re literally making it “impossible” to win a national title or conference title. We are saying they’re creating hurdles and restraints and or lack of support that other coaches have at their schools. So this makes it an uphill battle compared to others. You can still get every star to align and just barely squeak a good team thru but it’s harder.

Same with coaching HIRES. You can sense without any knowledge that the administration doesn’t want a “big name coach.” They don’t want to be a program that competes at every way possible with the top programs in the Big Ten in faculties, coaching salaries, freedom to do certain things.

We go out and build admittedly gorgeous new faculties, but we don’t do so to make sure we have “the best in the conference and top five in the country” instead we build new faculties that take us from some of the worst in the conference to now “very nice.”

We are not ALL IN. We are NFL fans who wear Walmart Jersey’s to games. At least we have the jersey of our favorite player which many don’t, but we don’t break the bank on an authentic jersey. No wouldn’t want to do that. We’ll pay for mid level seats, sneak snacks in our pockets and wear Walmart Jersey’s of our team. We aren’t ALL IN.

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7 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

The things we are alluding the administration is doing and or not doing that hurts doesn’t mean they’re literally making it “impossible” to win a national title or conference title. We are saying they’re creating hurdles and restraints and or lack of support that other coaches have at their schools. So this makes it an uphill battle compared to others. You can still get every star to align and just barely squeak a good team thru but it’s harder.

Same with coaching HIRES. You can sense without any knowledge that the administration doesn’t want a “big name coach.” They don’t want to be a program that competes at every way possible with the top programs in the Big Ten in faculties, coaching salaries, freedom to do certain things.

We go out and build admittedly gorgeous new faculties, but we don’t do so to make sure we have “the best in the conference and top five in the country” instead we build new faculties that take us from some of the worst in the conference to now “very nice.”

We are not ALL IN. We are NFL fans who wear Walmart Jersey’s to games. At least we have the jersey of our favorite player which many don’t, but we don’t break the bank on an authentic jersey. No wouldn’t want to do that. We’ll pay for mid level seats, sneak snacks in our pockets and wear Walmart Jersey’s of our team. We aren’t ALL IN.

This is just another excuse. Crean had a #1 ranked team and had he kept ahold of the of the players he had on campus our down year would have still likely included a tourney berth. 
 

Crean wasn’t a great coach and yet was able to build that #1 team. Crean is in the SEC where it’s mandatory to cheat and he’s not being successful.  
 

Stop saying our administration is holding us back. Sampson had us good in year 2 for gods sake. 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I still think there is an element of the admin not letting the guy they hire do what they do. I really do believe there are some handcuffs the IU admin puts on their basketball coaches. 

Crean alluded to this on his way out, and there was that Rabjohn's podcast from a couple years ago where he went into this. 

When you stink for this long, at some point its the admin. 

 

2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Over a year ago I talked about things my friend who was an assistant on a BIG team saying same kind of things.

What is it the administration is supposedly doing to handicap the coaches?

We've heard that Miller was forced to keep Crean's players when he took over. Yet he pushed out Gelon and Jones left that first year. There have been transfers out every year. Crean was able to oversign then force players out every year. Miller re-recruited the incoming freshmen when releasing them wouldn't have hurt the school as far as things like APR are concerned. So that doesn't really seem to be the case as he still had some leeway on this obviously. APR was hurting so he had to limit the number of transfers early to stay post season eligible. APR is an NCAA rule and not IU admin.

IU basketball has one of the largest recruiting recruiting budgets in D1. So it's not that.

IU has been updating the athletic facilities, including for basketball. 

I've heard IU is hard for transfers to get in to but the basketball team has had several of those. Other sports don't seem to have the same issue as they seem to get plenty of transfers.

So what is the administration doing to hinder the program other than making bad hires? Does it pertain to just basketball or all sports? 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

An administration holding you back won't stop you from being good on occasion, it will stop you from being consistently good. 

I'm not saying its all on the admin, but its definitely something that makes a difficult job much more difficult. 

What handcuffs? I don’t buy the student athlete bill of rights as a handcuff for those who have stated that prior. Recruiting budget is there. Facilities have and are being upgraded. It’s university isn’t denying player admittance. 
 

to me the AD hires a coach. It’s the coaches job to recruit the talent, develop that talent, and win with that talent. If a coach can’t recruit and coach well enough that’s on the coach not the administration. we have simply been bad because the admin haven’t broken the bank for a top coach. But I don’t see the admin holding back a coach once they are here. 

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2 minutes ago, Feathery said:

What handcuffs? I don’t buy the student athlete bill of rights as a handcuff for those who have stated that prior. Recruiting budget is there. Facilities have and are being upgraded. It’s university isn’t denying player admittance. 
 

to me the AD hires a coach. It’s the coaches job to recruit the talent, develop that talent, and win with that talent. If a coach can’t recruit and coach well enough that’s on the coach not the administration. we have simply been bad because the admin haven’t broken the bank for a top coach. But I don’t see the admin holding back a coach once they are here. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. 

Part of it is, it seems like you and Brass Cannon want to make my position and others on this as some defense of Crean and Miller, that's not what this is. 

But, if you're consistently bad or at minimum inconsistent over a 25 year period, then most likely it goes deeper than just not having the right coach. Its an organizational problem. 

Bob Knight, Tom Crean, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff Rabjohn's have all alluded to the IU administration being poor and making things difficult over the last 25+ years. 

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6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. 

Part of it is, it seems like you and Brass Cannon want to make my position and others on this as some defense of Crean and Miller, that's not what this is. 

But, if you're consistently bad or at minimum inconsistent over a 25 year period, then most likely it goes deeper than just not having the right coach. Its an organizational problem. 

Bob Knight, Tom Crean, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff Rabjohn's have all alluded to the IU administration being poor and making things difficult over the last 25+ years. 

Bob Knight was fired with cause. Ton Cream was given everything needed to win. Jim Harbaugh supports his brother-in-law. Not sure what Rabby has said. 
 

im not wanting to make your point anything. I want someone to tell me specifics on how the administration handcuffs coaches to make them fail. Until that happens I will stick with the admin just suck at hiring coaches bc they don’t want to spend on an elite guy. So we aren’t good enough bc we don’t have the right coach. Not that the admin handcuffs a coach that is here. 

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2 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

This is just another excuse. Crean had a #1 ranked team and had he kept ahold of the of the players he had on campus our down year would have still likely included a tourney berth. 
 

Crean wasn’t a great coach and yet was able to build that #1 team. Crean is in the SEC where it’s mandatory to cheat and he’s not being successful.  
 

Stop saying our administration is holding us back. Sampson had us good in year 2 for gods sake. 

You don’t get it but that’s fine nor read what I said so carry on.

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1 minute ago, Feathery said:

Bob Knight was fired with cause. Ton Cream was given everything needed to win. Jim Harbaugh supports his brother-in-law. Not sure what Rabby has said. 
 

im not wanting to make your point anything. I want someone to tell me specifics on how the administration handcuffs coaches to make them fail. Until that happens I will stick with the admin just suck at hiring coaches bc they don’t want to spend on an elite guy. So we aren’t good enough bc we don’t have the right coach. Not that the admin handcuffs a coach that is here. 

I dont work for the administration, so won't have specifics for you. But again, Bob Knight complained about it for several years his last few years. Tom Crean mentioned it, Harbaugh brought it up and Rabjohn's did about a 2hr podcast on it a couple years ago which you can look up and listen too. 

One of the points that Rabjohn's hit on in the podcast was compliance. He intimated that at the good schools compliance is there to help coaches navigate the rules and sort of find ways to work around them, but at IU compliance is there to catch you/bust you. He intimated that there is very little working together there. 

That's just one example. 

It doesn't mean you can't be good at IU, but consistency is going to be challenging. 

Again, I dont work there so can't give you exact examples, but there is 25ish years of evidence. 

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2 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

You don’t get it but that’s fine nor read what I said so carry on.

No I get it. Some people can only make excuses. And it’s hard to cast blame on the people whose face and effort you see. Much easier to cast blame on the faceless administration. 
 

Sampson built a winner in a season with his biggest sin being to many phone calls.  
 

Crean built a winner then his failures and preventing roster turnover destroyed it. 
 

Our administration is paying too dollars. They aren’t the problem. 

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3 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Bob Knight was fired with cause. Ton Cream was given everything needed to win. Jim Harbaugh supports his brother-in-law. Not sure what Rabby has said. 
 

im not wanting to make your point anything. I want someone to tell me specifics on how the administration handcuffs coaches to make them fail. Until that happens I will stick with the admin just suck at hiring coaches bc they don’t want to spend on an elite guy. So we aren’t good enough bc we don’t have the right coach. Not that the admin handcuffs a coach that is here. 

I stated some. No one is saying “our administration calls plays or prevents calling plays.” No one is saying anything like that. We are saying “when you look at what other administrations at top TOP programs do to help their basketball and football teams to succeed, we don’t go to THEIR levels. We go to “just good enough.” We are not “ALL in.”

Example: why would we build new faculties at IU for basketball when ours SUCKED compared to the rest of the conference including bottom half teams and NOT go so big that clearly we have the best faculties in the conference and rival the top 5 programs in the country?” Why? That’s one example. Our administration is NOT “all in.”

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1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

No I get it. Some people can only make excuses. And it’s hard to cast blame on the people whose face and effort you see. Much easier to cast blame on the faceless administration. 
 

Sampson built a winner in a season with his biggest sin being to many phone calls.  
 

Crean built a winner then his failures and preventing roster turnover destroyed it. 
 

Our administration is paying too dollars. They aren’t the problem. 

The flip side is, you're incapable of looking any deeper than what is right in front of your face. 

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Just now, BGleas said:

The flip side is, you're incapable of looking any deeper than what is right in front of your face. 

Nope I look it all but if things are rotten with your team as a leader you should look in ever expanding circles around your desk. 
 

This same supposed administration that has hindered our basketball team these years has done wonders for our Baseball, Football and Soccer teams.  But is supposedly totally to blame for basketball they hinder basketball while somehow helping these others. 

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