It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[Feathery]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I dont work for the administration, so won't have specifics for you. But again, Bob Knight complained about it for several years his last few years. Tom Crean mentioned it, Harbaugh brought it up and Rabjohn's did about a 2hr podcast on it a couple years ago which you can look up and listen too. 

One of the points that Rabjohn's hit on in the podcast was compliance. He intimated that at the good schools compliance is there to help coaches navigate the rules and sort of find ways to work around them, but at IU compliance is there to catch you/bust you. He intimated that there is very little working together there. 

That's just one example. 

It doesn't mean you can't be good at IU, but consistency is going to be challenging. 

Again, I dont work there so can't give you exact examples, but there is 25ish years of evidence. 

So you want IU to work in the grey? I’m all for that. But I’d go all in and get a Rick Pitino or Bruce Pearl type then. Lol. Most of the fan base would be adamantly opposed to that. I’m an Al Davis “just win baby” kinda guy. 

[BADGERVOL]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

No I get it. Some people can only make excuses. And it’s hard to cast blame on the people whose face and effort you see. Much easier to cast blame on the faceless administration. 
 

Sampson built a winner in a season with his biggest sin being to many phone calls.  
 

Crean built a winner then his failures and preventing roster turnover destroyed it. 
 

Our administration is paying too dollars. They aren’t the problem. 

Why do you think this or that recruit chooses one school over the other? The answer is TONS of reasons. So you as a program are competing on a big list of things against other coaches. Some things on the list are more important than others to different recruits. Some the coach has total control over (relationships, evaluation of talent and character, system, etc.) Some the administration does (recruiting budgets, facilities, etc). Our administration when compared to other top programs do not stack up with what THEY have control over. Period.

No one is saying Archie shouldn’t be canned, he should.

No one is saying it’s impossible to build a top team DESPITE not having the best of everything. NO one is saying that. We are saying to be an Alabama it takes EVERYONE at EVERY LEVEL being 100% all in at the table saying “I will do my part to make us the BEST program in the country at what I HAVE control over. 

Some of us are saying our Administration has not proven and has shown they’re NOT at the table saying that. They’re saying “here’s some new faculties and they’re super nice. That’s good enough.” I don’t want good enough. I want THE BEST. Or at least too 5 on the country. (One example)

[BADGERVOL]

Here’s a sad state of affairs, I’m in this thread arguing administration’s failure to play their role to the top level and didn’t even realize we were playing a game because I’m so tuned out to our current team.

🤦🏻‍♂️

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Nope I look it all but if things are rotten with your team as a leader you should look in ever expanding circles around your desk. 
 

This same supposed administration that has hindered our basketball team these years has done wonders for our Baseball, Football and Soccer teams.  But is supposedly totally to blame for basketball they hinder basketball while somehow helping these others. 

Because the focus has clearly been taken off of making basketball the linchpin of the university. 

Nobody is saying Archie or Crean have done/did good jobs. This stance isn't a defense of them. But as @BADGERVOL has clearly laid out, the IU administration isnt all-in on basketball as they were 30-40 years ago. They're not all-in like they are at Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc.

I think what bothers you about this stance is that you're viewing it as us letting Crean and Miller off the hook or that we're saying they're devoid blame, and nothing could be further from the truth. Neither one got the job done and in both cases a change was/is needed. 

But after 25+ years of losing and inconsistency it becomes an organizational problem. It's like a pro sports team with a bad owner, often times it doesn't matter who the coach is. Sure you'll catch lightening in a bottle every so often, but consistency will be tough. 

[OLDIUFAN]

Are you watching what we are putting out. Hell I wouldn’t give them new faculties either! 
start winning, develop players put them in the NBA. Players will play on outdoor courts if do that. 
By the way what’s our home record GO ARCHIE!

[Brass Cannon]

I’m not arguing that our administration is perfect.  But they have done more than enough that our coaches should be capable of being in the tourney every year. 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Because the focus has clearly been taken off of making basketball the linchpin of the university. 

Nobody is saying Archie or Crean have done/did good jobs. This stance isn't a defense of them. But as @BADGERVOL has clearly laid out, the IU administration isnt all-in on basketball as they were 30-40 years ago. They're not all-in like they are at Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc.

I think what bothers you about this stance is that you're viewing it as us letting Crean and Miller off the hook or that we're saying they're devoid blame, and nothing could be further from the truth. Neither one got the job done and in both cases a change was/is needed. 

But after 25+ years of losing and inconsistency it becomes an organizational problem. It's like a pro sports team with a bad owner, often times it doesn't matter who the coach is. Sure you'll catch lightening in a bottle every so often, but consistency will be tough. 

That’s not what bothers me at all.  But it’s a cop out. Our administration might be holding us back from being Virginia good.  But they aren’t doing squat to keep us out of the tourney 5 straight years.  
 

Let’s find a coach that can consistently make the tourney before we talk about what else the administration can do.  
 

College basketball more than any sport is about the HC

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, BADGERVOL said:

No one is saying it’s impossible to build a top team DESPITE not having the best of everything. NO one is saying that. We are saying to be an Alabama it takes EVERYONE at EVERY LEVEL being 100% all in at the table saying “I will do my part to make us the BEST program in the country at what I HAVE control over. 

This paragraph sums it up perfectly. I dont know why people are fighting it so hard. We have 25 years of evidence to support it. 

Some bring up Sampson to refute it, but I think that actually supports what we're saying. 

The top administrations would have figured the Sampson thing out without destroying the program. The top programs would not have fallen at the NCAA's feet. 

Look at UNC, LSU, Kansas, Arizona, etc., etc. Their coaches and programs did far worse than anything Sampson did, yet their administrations backed their coaches, fought the NCAA and didn't give in. 

IU self-reported and did more to tear down its own program than anything the NCAA did to IU. 

[BADGERVOL]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I’m not arguing that our administration is perfect.  But they have done more than enough that our coaches should be capable of being in the tourney every year. 

Agreed. I’m not ok with that. Fire Archie. Put our big boy pants on and go to a big name coach and back the brinks truck up and tell that prospective coach “we are willing to do ANYTHING to win within the rules. And by rules we mean if it isn’t clearly wrong we are doing it.” If Duke has pool tables with their logo on it in the lobby of the players locker room, then we are getting the same and we are getting every pool cue hand carved with each players name on it.

DO EVERYTHING. Idc what it is or how small it might help. Every single person who can do anything DO IT.

Hire a fricken Martha look a like who sings better than Martha did to dust mop the hallways the day that Recruit “Bob” comes with his dad who grew up loving that Farm Bureau pregame and an asst coach who networked to find that intel out helps set it up.

I don’t give a rats ass whether the maintenance guy has any ability to call a play, when you replace the toilet paper fold the damn end like a triangle so it’s like a 5 star HOTEL! 
 

EVERYONE GET ALL IN!

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

That’s not what bothers me at all.  But it’s a cop out. Our administration might be holding us back from being Virginia good.  But they aren’t doing squat to keep us out of the tourney 5 straight years.  
 

Let’s find a coach that can consistently make the tourney before we talk about what else the administration can do.  
 

College basketball more than any sport is about the HC

It's not a cop out at all. I think you have blinders on here. 

Again, nobody has said winning at IU is impossible or that the current product is acceptable or can't be improved upon by a different coach. 

But its not a cop out to say IU's administration holds its basketball program back and makes it much more difficult to succeed.  

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Agreed. I’m not ok with that. Fire Archie. Put our big boy pants on and go to a big name coach and back the brinks truck up and tell that prospective coach “we are willing to do ANYTHING to win within the rules. And by rules we mean if it isn’t clearly wrong we are doing it.” If Duke has pool tables with their logo on it in the lobby of the players locker room, then we are getting the same and we are getting every pool cue hand carved with each players name on it.

DO EVERYTHING. Idc what it is or how small it might help. Every single person who can do anything DO IT.

Hire a fricken Martha look a like who sings better than Martha did to dust mop the hallways the day that Recruit “Bob” comes with his dad who grew up loving that Farm Bureau pregame and an asst coach who networked to find that intel out helps set it up.

I don’t give a rats ass whether the maintenance guy has any ability to call a play, when you replace the toilet paper fold the damn end like a triangle so it’s like a 5 star HOTEL! 
 

EVERYONE GET ALL IN!

You're summarizing this much better! The most successful organizations, whether it be business, sports, etc., are successful because they have a clear plan and objective and everyone aspect of the organization is aligned in not only achieving the, but also in how they'll be achieved. 

That has not been the case with IU basketball for a long, long time. 

[5fouls]

7 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Agreed. I’m not ok with that. Fire Archie. Put our big boy pants on and go to a big name coach and back the brinks truck up and tell that prospective coach “we are willing to do ANYTHING to win within the rules. And by rules we mean if it isn’t clearly wrong we are doing it.” If Duke has pool tables with their logo on it in the lobby of the players locker room, then we are getting the same and we are getting every pool cue hand carved with each players name on it.

DO EVERYTHING. Idc what it is or how small it might help. Every single person who can do anything DO IT.

Hire a fricken Martha look a like who sings better than Martha did to dust mop the hallways the day that Recruit “Bob” comes with his dad who grew up loving that Farm Bureau pregame and an asst coach who networked to find that intel out helps set it up.

I don’t give a rats ass whether the maintenance guy has any ability to call a play, when you replace the toilet paper fold the damn end like a triangle so it’s like a 5 star HOTEL! 
 

EVERYONE GET ALL IN!

Why would we want pool tables with the Duke logo on it?  

[IU Scott]

14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This paragraph sums it up perfectly. I dont know why people are fighting it so hard. We have 25 years of evidence to support it. 

Some bring up Sampson to refute it, but I think that actually supports what we're saying. 

The top administrations would have figured the Sampson thing out without destroying the program. The top programs would not have fallen at the NCAA's feet. 

Look at UNC, LSU, Kansas, Arizona, etc., etc. Their coaches and programs did far worse than anything Sampson did, yet their administrations backed their coaches, fought the NCAA and didn't give in. 

IU self-reported and did more to tear down. Its own program than anything the NCAA did to IU. 

I don't really buy that the administration is holding us back.  if they didn't care why Pay Archie a top 15 salary.  Why put so much money into Cook Hall if they don't care.  Why all the upgrades at AH if they don't care or want us to be successful.

[BGleas]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I don't really buy that the administration is holding us back.  if they didn't care why Pay Archie a top 15 salary.  Why put so much money into Cook Hall if they don't care.  Why all the upgrades at AH if they don't care or want us to be successful.

There is so much more that goes into a successful organization than just money. Throwing money at things doesn't fix an organization that isn't aligned. 

And as Badgervol outlined, IU did "just enough" when building their facilities, they didn't go all in and make them the best in the country or conference. 

If IU has such a great administration then why have things been so bad for 25 years? It can't all just be the wrong coach. 

[IUDan93]

In my opinion, if CAM is back than we know that there are problems with the administration in terms of doing what it can to compete in basketball. I can't see "backing up the Brinks truck" and then stopping the new coach with a continuation of policies and procedures that tie their hands.  This would be monumentally stupid.  If we are going to be good, there is no way that Archie is our coach.  I am not saying that he can't be successful, and too may people with credibility think he can coach. It is just that a 5th of this says loud and clear that the administration and Dolson have standards that will never translate into a competitive program.  I was a stick with Archie guy, and I really wanted him to be here for a long time, but it just ain't in the cards.  

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

In my opinion, if CAM is back than we know that there are problems with the administration in terms of doing what it can to compete in basketball. I can't see "backing up the Brinks truck" and then stopping the new coach with a continuation of policies and procedures that tie their hands.  This would be monumentally stupid.  If we are going to be good, there is no way that Archie is our coach.  I am not saying that he can't be successful, and too may people with credibility think he can coach. It is just that a 5th of this says loud and clear that the administration and Dolson have standards that will never translate into a competitive program.  I was a stick with Archie guy, and I really wanted him to be here for a long time, but it just ain't in the cards.  

Cometely agree. If this was UK they would be making a change and then doing whatever needed to be done to get the absolute best hire they could. Then letting that hire do what they do and give him all of the tools to do it. 

Cal is the perfect example. When he got to UK he was basically allowed to replace the entire team before the ink was dry on his contract. 

Not that Archie could have gotten John Wall or Boogie Cousins types, but from what has been said he had to keep Crean's recruiting class and wasn't able to bring the pg from Dayton with him. 

I don't mean that as a defense of Archie, just one example of what BadgerVol and I are referring too. 

[5fouls]

Bump.  It's been 7 minutes.  

[Sea Turtle]

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

What handcuffs? I don’t buy the student athlete bill of rights as a handcuff for those who have stated that prior. Recruiting budget is there. Facilities have and are being upgraded. It’s university isn’t denying player admittance. 
 

to me the AD hires a coach. It’s the coaches job to recruit the talent, develop that talent, and win with that talent. If a coach can’t recruit and coach well enough that’s on the coach not the administration. we have simply been bad because the admin haven’t broken the bank for a top coach. But I don’t see the admin holding back a coach once they are here. 

Our administration does not care About basketball. They don't care if we are good or not. They made a CONSCIOUS decision to de-emphasize basketball after Knight.

Does this really need to be explained to you? It's common knowledge.

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, Sea Turtle said:

Our administration does not care About basketball. They don't care if we are good or not. They made a CONSCIOUS decision to de-emphasize basketball after Knight.

Does this really need to be explained to you? It's common knowledge.

I will believe it when you show the proof.  If it is common knowledge show us the articles written about it or show us the interviews with people saying this.

[Euroclydon]

Archie needs a miracle B1G tourney run. That's really all that's left for him if he wants to keep his job.

Interesting we are not hearing from AD Dolson. No vote of confidence. No ultimatums. No nothing. If I had to guess, he will just let the season play out before chiming in when it is done. But he has to say something eventually. 

[John S]

6 hours ago, OLDIUFAN said:

Absolutely agree !!! 

Incredible in light of his playing PG in college.

[Sea Turtle]

10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I will believe it when you show the proof.  If it is common knowledge show us the articles written about it or show us the interviews with people saying this.

Rabby had a three hour conversation about it on Hoosier Hysterics back in April of 2019, for one. Go listen to it. 

[mrflynn03]

27 minutes ago, Sea Turtle said:

Our administration does not care About basketball. They don't care if we are good or not. They made a CONSCIOUS decision to de-emphasize basketball after Knight.

Does this really need to be explained to you? It's common knowledge.

Which is ignorant because they should be using Basketball for brand name recognition, the entire university would benefit.

A good example is Gonzaga.  If not for basketball I wouldn't even know that place existed. 

[AxnJxn]

10 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Which is ignorant because they should be using Basketball for brand name recognition, the entire university would benefit.

A good example is Gonzaga.  If not for basketball I wouldn't even know that place existed. 

I’ll see if i can find the article, but i remember reading about how Butler had a huge jump in admissions/revenue after their national title runs a few years back. 

[dbmhoosier]

Dakich has said many times that we should take Fred's bill of rights and shove it up his you know what.  Just one example of the administration handicapping the program.