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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

Hoosier0908!

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Brass Cannon

Brass Cannon

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1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Shoot I remember speaking with Sampson when he first got here....he said you guys are Indiana University and have some of the worst facilities I've ever seen. 

Crean was more classy so he didn't say much in public but I bet he and Fred said about 10 words to each other in the final 2 years.

Archie knows the deal out there. Now that doesn't dismiss what we see in coaching...that's never my point. My point is there are handcuffs in getting certain kids to campus. Everyone wants 4.0 GPA's? We've got about 6 of them on the team right now. 

And the facilities weren’t holding Sampson back. So not sure why people are saying that’s a problem. 

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ThePaulieWalnuts

ThePaulieWalnuts

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Because the focus has clearly been taken off of making basketball the linchpin of the university. 

Nobody is saying Archie or Crean have done/did good jobs. This stance isn't a defense of them. But as @BADGERVOL has clearly laid out, the IU administration isnt all-in on basketball as they were 30-40 years ago. They're not all-in like they are at Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc.

I think what bothers you about this stance is that you're viewing it as us letting Crean and Miller off the hook or that we're saying they're devoid blame, and nothing could be further from the truth. Neither one got the job done and in both cases a change was/is needed. 

But after 25+ years of losing and inconsistency it becomes an organizational problem. It's like a pro sports team with a bad owner, often times it doesn't matter who the coach is. Sure you'll catch lightening in a bottle every so often, but consistency will be tough. 

Yeah that's true.  I also think a lot of incompetence runs rampant in the program organization and has for awhile.  Lots of people with power and say that I wouldn't trust running a lemonade stand, let alone a high-end (well used to be anyway) basketball program.

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BGleas

BGleas

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Just now, BADGERVOL said:

You’re right. I went back and read my reasoning. I was trying to make the case that our administration is texting the coach during the game and limiting his plays. So yea...you got it. You’ve read all my responses well.

😳

It's honestly stunning to me that people are arguing against this so hard. 

The evidence of 25+ years of mediocrity is right there. 

Its why Beilein wasn't hired. Its why we fell to the feet of the NCAA during the Sampson fiasco. 

Its why compliance fights coaches instead of helping them. 

It's why the locker room wasn't upgraded until Archie got here and begged for it. 

It's why no IU coach has been able to successfully navigate the gray area. 

It's why at UK Calipari can kick the entire team off before the ink is dry on his contract and then sign Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe, yet Archie had to keep all of Crean's class and couldn't bring Mckliney Wright in. 

It's why Bob Knight brought this up for years. 

Again, it doesn't mean no coach can win here. But organizations that are mediocre for 25 years aren't that say if their executives are doing their jobs and supporting their people.  

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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10 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Where did I say they’re horrible?? My gosh! I said they ducked and we built brand new that easily put us middle of the pack. I guess I could word this 15 different ways and it’s not going to matter. So that’s fine. Agree to disagree. I’ve made my case.

every coach fired should have been and Archie should be too. No excuses.

Our administration would like to win a Natty but they don’t want to curb stomp the competition. They want to slap box.

If you have read my post i want Archie gone as much as anyone but I don't think we are bad because we are  being held back by the administration.

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Seeking6

Seeking6

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5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I’ve read them. They are all paranoid conjecture. Without any hard facts. Frankly telling him what plays to run would be a better claim because it’s a hard claim. 

Conjecture? 25+ years of having all the positives you say we have....what other proof do you need that there are issues we as fans never see? 25 years of mediocrity is the only thing you need to know.

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Seeking6

Seeking6

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

It's honestly stunning to me that people are arguing against this so hard. 

The evidence of 25+ years of mediocrity is right there. 

Its why Beilein wasn't hired. Its why we fell to the feet of the NCAA during the Sampson fiasco. 

Its why compliance fights coaches instead of helping them. 

It's why the locker room wasn't upgraded until Archie got here and begged for it. 

It's why no IU coach has been able to successfully navigate the gray area. 

It's why at UK Calipari can kick the entire team off before the ink is dry on his contract and then sign Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe, yet Archie had to keep all of Crean's class and couldn't bring Mckliney Wright in. 

It's why Bob Knight brought this up for years. 

Again, it doesn't mean no coach can win here. But organizations that are mediocre for 25 years aren't that say if their executives are doing their jobs and supporting their people.  

Amen. Amen. Amen. 

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's honestly stunning to me that people are arguing against this so hard. 

The evidence of 25+ years of mediocrity is right there. 

Its why Beilein wasn't hired. Its why we fell to the feet of the NCAA during the Sampson fiasco. 

Its why compliance fights coaches instead of helping them. 

It's why the locker room wasn't upgraded until Archie got here and begged for it. 

It's why no IU coach has been able to successfully navigate the gray area. 

It's why at UK Calipari can kick the entire team off before the ink is dry on his contract and then sign Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe, yet Archie had to keep all of Crean's class and couldn't bring Mckliney Wright in. 

It's why Bob Knight brought this up for years. 

Again, it doesn't mean no coach can win here. But organizations that are mediocre for 25 years aren't that say if their executives are doing their jobs and supporting their people.  

Beilein was not hired because of Hebert and he is no longer here.  Also i don't want IU to play in the gray area if that means trying to get parents jobs or houses to come here.

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BGleas

BGleas

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1 minute ago, BADGERVOL said:

This year is on Archie. PERIOD.

Almost three decades of crap is more than JUST coaching.

Again, it's absolutely stunning that people are fighting this. 

The only thing I can think of is hope. If they can blame it on only coaching then there is hope the next guy will fix everything. 

When it's a complete organizational problem, that's harder to wrap your brain around in terms of fixing. 

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Hippopotamo

Hippopotamo

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When a program is mediocre and underachieving for 25+ years, it’s almost always because of the administration. I’m from Chicago and most of the teams I’m a fan of have historically had terrible front offices. The Bulls were terrible and undermined their coaches for years. Finally they get a new president of basketball operations, he hired a legit GM and Head Coach, and now they’re finally heading in the right direction. The Cubs won the World Series after an overhaul of the ownership and front office. There is no chance that the administration is doing as much as they can to create a successful program at IU. There’s just no way. When we see a program that seemingly can’t catch a break, it’s because we aren’t taking every advantage they can to catch those breaks. McKinley Wright didn’t come to IU, our facilities were terrible until a few years ago, transfers seem to be a challenge. It’s all conjecture but when there’s smoke there’s fire. 

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IU Scott

IU Scott

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Just now, BGleas said:

Again, it's absolutely stunning that people are fighting this. 

The only thing I can think of is hope. If they can blame it on only coaching then there is hope the next guy will fix everything. 

When it's a complete organizational problem, that's harder to wrap your brain around in terms of fixing. 

So if it is all on the administration why are we here wanting Archie fired since it won't be any better with the next coach.  Why keep wasting money on salaries and buyouts since we won't be any good with this administration. I guess we shouldn't get excited for a top 11 women's team since the administration will get in their way.  We might as well not even watch our top  football team next year since it will not be allowed to compete for a championship.  I guess I should not forget a top  baseball program or one of the top soccer programs in the country.

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dbmhoosier

dbmhoosier

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12 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

The fact that Sampson and Crean were able to build winners despite them would seem to indicate they were overblown. 

You're really not making sense.  Michael Jordan once won an NBA finals game with a severe hangover (I mean case of the flu). Are you saying he wouldn't have played any better had he been 100%?

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BGleas

BGleas

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Just now, IU Scott said:

So if it is all on the administration why are we here wanting Archie fired since it won't be any better with the next coach.  Why keep wasting money on salaries and buyouts since we won't be any good with this administration. I guess we shouldn't get excited for a top 11 women's team since the administration will get in their way.  We might as well not even watch our top  football team next year since it will not be allowed to compete for a championship.  I guess I should not forget a top  baseball program or one of the top soccer programs in the country.

Not one single person in this thread has said it is all on the administration. 

NOT ONE PERSON!!

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