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It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


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So people can connect the dots. 

1. Poster on a board said Dolson was looking at how much money they would save or lose by keeping Archie. 

2. Board of trustees meeting scheduled for Sunday after Saturday's game. 

3. I've heard rumors Dolson is calling around looking for money. 

4. Feelers have possibly been sent out to coaches to see if they have interest. 

Where there's smoke there's usually fire and there seems to be a lot smoke all of a sudden. 

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9 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

They are far from the only two guys, and frankly, far from the two most influential figures at IU. 

Yeah, I am acutely aware of that.  I am just saying that you have 2 guys like that who are in the room.  If all this stuff we are hearing is true, how the f do they sit there and go along with that?

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2 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Nah, I'm done with responding to you. You've been shown multiple players that have developed under CAM that refute your claim, and you just keep moving the goalposts until you're holding on to one last scrap, instead of just admitting you're wrong. Seems to be a pattern. If you can't see the development in these players, particularly the ones that have been specifically pointed out like Race and AF, then you're watching a different game than I am. 

I will admit when I am wrong but I am right about TJD and player development.  I also go by what I hear from former players who have said pretty much the same about player development.  Leary even said he doesn't think race is that much better but he id getting a lot more minutes and that is the cause for his numbers going up.  I think franklin has improved skill wise but a lot of the other players have the same skill se that they had when they got here.

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5 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

So people can connect the dots. 

1. Poster on a board said Dolson was looking at how much money they would save or lose by keeping Archie. 

2. Board of trustees meeting scheduled for Sunday after Saturday's game. 

3. I've heard rumors Dolson is calling around looking for money. 

4. Feelers have possibly been sent out to coaches to see if they have interest. 

Where there's smoke there's usually fire and there seems to be a lot smoke all of a sudden. 

Would be interested if true who they sent feelers out to

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7 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Unpopular opinion but IU will never be a basketball Blue Blood again.  We've had our time, did the best we could with it and are being left behind in the basketball world. 

Unfortunately Coach Knight's legacy was a scorched earth campaign.  He left nothing in his wake.  It was glorious to witness and be part of at the time but it burnt out every bit from the university.  

I just don't see a way we rise from the ashes left behind and regain past glory.  It will take a once in a lifetime coaching hire, again, to get us back there.  And I wholeheartedly believe the administration/BoT does not want that to happen and its why you will never see them go big game hunting when they do a coaching search.

I no longer talk about basketball to my friends or family.  I don't watch most of the time anymore.  I have no excitement for next year or the year after.  I don't talk about #6 unless its about past opportunities. 

I grew up in the 80's watching IU basketball with my dad.  We always talked IU when I called from the abroad while in the  Navy, and then from college at Indiana State, and even when I moved to Iowa.  But then we slowly stopped talking IU basketball and then the last 2 years before he died we didn't talk it at all.  As I type this out, it brings an ache to my heart that i lost him last year and that I don't even have the connection we had for some many years to watch and connect with.  

I do not think I will ever be as passionate about IU basketball again.  They do not care about the program and I have come to feel the same way.  Oh i like coming here and talking about the program and seeing what people think or have to say but its because I can't completely go cold turkey.

 

Copied and pasted on the Bama boards and ND boards. Literally watched some of them say the same thing for years. With all due respect you’re dead wrong.

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6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Yeah, I am acutely aware of that.  I am just saying that you have 2 guys like that who are in the room.  If all this stuff we are hearing is true, how the f do they sit there and go along with that?

A lot of people get to those type of positions by not rocking the boat too much. Then they justify not rocking the boat in their heads by saying things would be even worse if they weren't offering the PC version of their perspective. 

That's just my opinion obviously, but I've seen it play out in the business world several times. 

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2 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Copied and pasted on the Bama boards and ND boards. Literally watched some of them say the same thing for years. With all due respect you’re dead wrong.

And I didn't copy and paste anything.  Everything I wrote, was from how I feel currently.  I appreciate your view and opinion, but please don't invalidate mine because you don't agree with it.

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25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think when you talk about limitations placed on IUBB by the administration, I think interacting in that way is a big part of it. 

I could be wrong, but I have very strong suspicion that the powers that be have little to no tolerance for that. 

This and compliance (working against/trying to catch violations instead of working with/trying to avoid violations but doing anything/everything that is legal) are the two big ones I've heard about. 

If Archie is let go, it would be nice if he opened up about anything like this going on, even if out of frustration. Something along the lines of, "I thank IU for the opportunity and thought we'd be more successful during my time here. It would have been easier to be successful if I wasn't prevented from coaching the way I had for xx years prior to my arrival by not being allowed to criticize/"be too mean" to players, raise my voice towards them, discipline them in ways I saw fit, accept certain transfers, deal with restrictive instead of helpful compliance, etc."

No idea what is true or not, and know that him coming out in that manner has less than 1% chance of happening, but it would be nice to know if we can expect any coach to be consistently successful here in my lifetime again.

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10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I will admit when I am wrong but I am right about TJD and player development.  I also go by what I hear from former players who have said pretty much the same about player development.  Leary even said he doesn't think race is that much better but he id getting a lot more minutes and that is the cause for his numbers going up.  I think franklin has improved skill wise but a lot of the other players have the same skill se that they had when they got here.

Race hasn't improved much stat-wise accounting for the increase in mins. Point for Scott, I know how much you love analytics!

image.png.452c922e2746759d4fab30706e2600ae.png

image.thumb.png.8d957a3a3e6ac511cee5a1d6683f3231.png

 

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1 minute ago, cybergates said:

Race hasn't improved much stat-wise accounting for the increase in mins. Point for Scott, I know how much you love analytics!

image.png.452c922e2746759d4fab30706e2600ae.png

image.thumb.png.8d957a3a3e6ac511cee5a1d6683f3231.png

 

I actually think Race has improved but just saying what Leary has said and Leary really likes Race

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1 hour ago, AxnJxn said:

It's also less than what I said, because I included Lander. Let's go further - you haven't seen any development in Al? TJD? Hunter? I mean, could you guys bend over backwards any further to not give any credit to this coach? 

Yeah, Rob has regressed, and the freshmen class have played like freshmen. The team overall just hasn't gelled into a cohesive unit, for whatever reason, and I have no issues with CAM taking the blame for that. But, again, let's not ignore the positive things that have happened here just because the end results aren't where they should be.

There was a start during the game last night that 3 of the top 4 players in the Big Ten in terms of ppg increase from last year are IU players. 

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23 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

So people can connect the dots. 

1. Poster on a board said Dolson was looking at how much money they would save or lose by keeping Archie. 

2. Board of trustees meeting scheduled for Sunday after Saturday's game. 

3. I've heard rumors Dolson is calling around looking for money. 

4. Feelers have possibly been sent out to coaches to see if they have interest. 

Where there's smoke there's usually fire and there seems to be a lot smoke all of a sudden. 

My gut says Archie will be back. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

There was a start during the game last night that 3 of the top 4 players in the Big Ten in terms of ppg increase from last year are IU players. 

Yep, AF, TJD, and Race I believe were the three. All three of those guys have clearly improved their games in their time at IU - whether they've developed enough in their time here is the question to be asked. 

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1 hour ago, DC2345 said:

Fife became a head coach of a division 1 school at the age of 25 and the record improved each year. He then joined Michigan State to learn from a hall of fame coach and has developed into a good recruiter. Go look at Coach K's record at Army. Was Izzo ready to be the head coach at MSU? What about Juwan Howard at Michigan. Everyone gets there different. You could argue Fife is more prepared because he has learned from past mistakes of being a head coach and having failed. 

There are probably 50 coaches in front of Fife right now for the IU job. Would take Crean back before Fife.

I would do the "if he never played for IU would you want him" conversation, but that's already been done.

If Fife or Alford are hired, the administration did it to shut up part of the fan base. Not because they are the best available coach.

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1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Why is that bad? Spacing is one of the most important parts of a good offense. 

I'm not saying it is bad exactly, except if you don't have the superior athleticism and size, and don't have four shooters on the floor, you won't be able to create any offense...

Imagine our roster trying to run a dribble drive offense...The Lane would be packed, we would never be able to beat our man off the dribble, and because we wouldn't be able to force help, even the three point attempts would be an easy closeout and contest...

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5 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said:

I hope they make it then... that is about the same window for me!

I'm 53, and I fully expect IU to be great, even blue blood great, again.  And I don't think it takes a generation; it takes tourney attendance, tourney wins, and a Nat'l championship.  Those are all in reach.  I never say never.

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3 minutes ago, JugRox said:

There are probably 50 coaches in front of Fife right now for the IU job. Would take Crean back before Fife.

I would do the "if he never played for IU would you want him" conversation, but that's already been done.

If Fife or Alford is hired, the administration did it to shut up part of the fan base. Not because they are the best available coach.

I don't know if that guy is Fife, but I do like the guy. I just love hearing him talk and share stories, to be honest.  He's quite engaging in that regard. (To be clear, I have never played or coached organized ball, aside from 4th and 5th grade gym and recess time, and the times I stayed after school to try out for 6th grade basketball and failed.  But I love watching it.)

What I like about Dane is his energy, his passion, and his sense of humor.  He was a player who gave his all, so understands that aspect; he's been a head coach, so at least gets some of the organizational skills required; been an assistant to really a great coach who gets the most out of his time consistently, year after year, as the season progresses.  I don't know if that translates into a superstar head coach.

IU took a risk with Bob Knight in the early 1970's.  I'm not saying IU needs to take a risk again, but I do think, as others have said, it's difficult to tell the diamond in the rough until you see actual experience at your level of play.  

Someone on HSN mentioned this recently, and that is that IU fans are knowledgeable basketball fans overall.  Very true.  Coach Knight was great at explaining why this play mattered, why that little detail mattered, etc.  I think a coach who is able to convey that same kind of detail again, have that same kind of draw, would be great for IU's fans.  Does it win games? Only time will tell.  But that's my 2 cents.

 

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8 minutes ago, MrsStoller said:

I don't know if that guy is Fife, but I do like the guy. I just love hearing him talk and share stories, to be honest.  He's quite engaging in that regard. (To be clear, I have never played or coached organized ball, aside from 4th and 5th grade gym and recess time, and the times I stayed after school to try out for 6th grade basketball and failed.  But I love watching it.)

What I like about Dane is his energy, his passion, and his sense of humor.  He was a player who gave his all, so understands that aspect; he's been a head coach, so at least gets some of the organizational skills required; been an assistant to really a great coach who gets the most out of his time consistently, year after year, as the season progresses.  I don't know if that translates into a superstar head coach.

IU took a risk with Bob Knight in the early 1970's.  I'm not saying IU needs to take a risk again, but I do think, as others have said, it's difficult to tell the diamond in the rough until you see actual experience at your level of play.  

Someone on HSN mentioned this recently, and that is that IU fans are knowledgeable basketball fans overall.  Very true.  Coach Knight was great at explaining why this play mattered, why that little detail mattered, etc.  I think a coach who is able to convey that same kind of detail again, have that same kind of draw, would be great for IU's fans.  Does it win games? Only time will tell.  But that's my 2 cents.

 

I think I would feel a little bit more confident if Fife had won a Division 1 basketball game as a head coach in the last 16 years. Mike Davis was an assistant to Knight, how did that work out?

I'm sure he is a great guy, but that's not going to win basketball games.

 

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33 minutes ago, cybergates said:

Race hasn't improved much stat-wise accounting for the increase in mins. Point for Scott, I know how much you love analytics!

image.png.452c922e2746759d4fab30706e2600ae.png

image.thumb.png.8d957a3a3e6ac511cee5a1d6683f3231.png

 

Great, so you can infer from the bold that Race has improved, just not as much as some people might like. Now do Franklin, TJD, Al, and the rest. The comment I didn't agree with wasn't about one player, it was about all of them: "From what we seen for 4 years is that those freshman won't develop wit this coaching staff. "

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2 minutes ago, JugRox said:

I think I would feel a little bit more confident if Fife had won a Division 1 basketball game as a head coach in the last 16 years.

I'm sure he is a great guy, but that's not going to win basketball games.

 

I understand.  Dane coached at IPFW (2005-2011) when it joined Division 1 (2007), and won several games there. His final season as head coach, 2010-2011, IPFW Mastodons were 18-12.  But I do understand what you're saying.

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