It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[Seeking6]

7 minutes ago, MrsStoller said:

First, if this ends up not working out for CAM, I wish him all the best going forward.  He is a good coach, and I'm certain he'll land well on his feet.  I liked his hire and I'm disappointed for all that it hasn't worked out better so far.

Having said that, if the coach's position opens up, my dream list:

1. Brad Stevens - I mean, of course.  I'd like to see the Butler Way introduced to IU.  I think we kind of had that back in the day.

2. John Beilein.  He's available, proven winner, classy guy. 

3. Chris Beard - just have heard his name a lot on this board; seems solid; Texas Tech is more than a mid-major I think, and he is accustomed to having to coach in a state with a lot of great teams, so I think coming to Indiana might be appealing.

4. Dane Fife - maybe as an assistant to Beilein if not the HC.  Line him up to take the reigns.  I like his passion, his energy, he's funny, could probably tour with Pat McAfee during the off-season.  But he's been the AC for a great head coach, love or hate MSU.  Izzo consistently has his teams at the top of their game late in the season.  And I just like Dane Fife. 😂

5. Fred Hoiberg - maybe he'd like a different B1G school.

6. Randy Wittman - bring him to IU for a few; Dane Fife under him; other solid assistants. He's been an NBA player and coach, played on an NCAA Championship team.

7. Beyond that, I'm not sure.  I want to find that coach who can find those tangents to get IU and the players to the next level, like Coach Knight.  No one has mentioned Mike Roberts, current assistant. I like him. I think he's well-liked by fellow coaches and players as well.  He also gets "it". I don't know that that's the direction IU wants to or needs to go in, but I think he's solid.

How's that?

1,2,3,5, and 6 would never happen. Mike Roberts? He was brought into to teach bigs right? And also recruit which is what guys that far down on the bench are supposed to do. All the respect in the world because I'd like for this board to get back to what made it a great place to discuss hoops in an adult way....but what do you see from Mike Roberts? I'm probably missing something but would love to know if Roberts is in charge of bigs and recruiting as well....what has he done?

[BADGERVOL]

3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

1,2,3,5, and 6 would never happen. Mike Roberts? He was brought into to teach bigs right? And also recruit which is what guys that far down on the bench are supposed to do. All the respect in the world because I'd like for this board to get back to what made it a great place to discuss hoops in an adult way....but what do you see from Mike Roberts? I'm probably missing something but would love to know if Roberts is in charge of bigs and recruiting as well....what has he done?

First, I asked for her ideal...so it would be a dumb answer if her list didn’t include some of those.

Second, 2 and 3 are not completely off the wall. Long shots? Yes. But as this thread has shown, they’re being discussed as viable by many.

Third, 6 I wouldn’t want but at least it’s a discussion point that’s a little different than we’ve heard from many.

[IUrocker]

With everything people are hearing at this point, I wonder if it’s more than a 50/50 shot that he’s gone this season, or if it still isn’t even safe to say it’s that high. There definitely seems to be plenty of smoke, and the talk about replacements is pretty high. Like Scott said, I could see hopes getting high thinking there is going to be a change and a then a letdown at this point from a lot of people if he comes back.

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

First, I asked for her ideal...so it would be a dumb answer if her list didn’t include some of those.

Second, 2 and 3 are not completely off the wall. Long shots? Yes. But as this thread has shown, they’re being discussed as viable by many.

Third, 6 I wouldn’t want but at least it’s a discussion point that’s a little different than we’ve heard from many.

First off @MrsStoller I didn't even recognize the lady part. I usually just read and move along without looking at people's names. No disrespect intended at all. My apologies.

Regarding IU potential hires. We aren't a school that puts their $ where their fans mouths are. We just aren't. I'd expect another mid-major....or potentially a guy from the NBA like Frank who wants to get back in coaching. I can't say it enough gang. Our administration doesn't care about hoops. 

Dolson works for someone. Until he actually proves it (because the next coach will be his signature hire) I wouldn't hold my breath. He's a fundraiser. Met him 2x. Nice guy....but doesn't seem like a guy who would walk up the hill and say I need $10M a year to hire the guy I want. 

 

[BADGERVOL]

4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

First off @MrsStoller I didn't even recognize the lady part. I usually just read and move along without looking at people's names. No disrespect intended at all. My apologies.

Regarding IU potential hires. We aren't a school that puts their $ where their fans mouths are. We just aren't. I'd expect another mid-major....or potentially a guy from the NBA like Frank who wants to get back in coaching. I can't say it enough gang. Our administration doesn't care about hoops. 

Dolson works for someone. Until he actually proves it (because the next coach will be his signature hire) I wouldn't hold my breath. He's a fundraiser. Met him 2x. Nice guy....but doesn't seem like a guy who would walk up the hill and say I need $10M a year to hire the guy I want. 

 

I agree ultimately. Do I HOPE we are shocked with a hire that gets everyone pumped? Yes. Do I believe it’s going to be very uninspiring? More likely yes. 😕

[MrsStoller]

6 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

First off @MrsStoller I didn't even recognize the lady part. I usually just read and move along without looking at people's names. No disrespect intended at all. My apologies.

Regarding IU potential hires. We aren't a school that puts their $ where their fans mouths are. We just aren't. I'd expect another mid-major....or potentially a guy from the NBA like Frank who wants to get back in coaching. I can't say it enough gang. Our administration doesn't care about hoops. 

Dolson works for someone. Until he actually proves it (because the next coach will be his signature hire) I wouldn't hold my breath. He's a fundraiser. Met him 2x. Nice guy....but doesn't seem like a guy who would walk up the hill and say I need $10M a year to hire the guy I want. 

 

No worries.

I am hopeful that AD Dolson will see what Mr. Stoller pointed out moments ago (as I read him these posts - I am the sports fan in this family! haha) - hiring a great coach that produces a strong, winning basketball program will lead to a great return on investment.  We need to get our 20 & 30-yr-old alumni and fans back into the program, buying IU gear, etc. That's our future.  I'm 53; I'm a huge IU bball fan, but we need a future cash flow.

[BADGERVOL]

2 minutes ago, MrsStoller said:

No worries.

I am hopeful that AD Dolson will see what Mr. Stoller pointed out moments ago (as I read him these posts - I am the sports fan in this family! haha) - hiring a great coach that produces a strong, winning basketball program will lead to a great return on investment.  We need to get our 20 & 30-yr-old alumni and fans back into the program, buying IU gear, etc. That's our future.  I'm 53; I'm a huge IU bball fan, but we need a future cash flow.

You two IU grads? Stoller’s?

[Seeking6]

Just now, MrsStoller said:

No worries.

I am hopeful that AD Dolson will see what Mr. Stoller pointed out moments ago (as I read him these posts - I am the sports fan in this family! haha) - hiring a great coach that produces a strong, winning basketball program will lead to a great return on investment.  We need to get our 20 & 30-yr-old alumni and fans back into the program, buying IU gear, etc. That's our future.  I'm 53; I'm a huge IU bball fan, but we need a future cash flow.

That's the part that really worries me. As we all know in the plus or minus 10 year age range you say.....a generation is lost. Right now it's all just hot air. They (being the students and up to age 30 or so) despite a few moments don't know good this thing is when it's right. 

I remember going to the 1987 Indy 500 parade. Could care less about the race....just wanted to see the IU team/Alford drive by me just for a few seconds. It was that special. 

Hope we get it back. Bama did with Saban. Kentucky did with Cal. Maybe we have a care still. 

[MrsStoller]

26 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

1,2,3,5, and 6 would never happen. Mike Roberts? He was brought into to teach bigs right? And also recruit which is what guys that far down on the bench are supposed to do. All the respect in the world because I'd like for this board to get back to what made it a great place to discuss hoops in an adult way....but what do you see from Mike Roberts? I'm probably missing something but would love to know if Roberts is in charge of bigs and recruiting as well....what has he done?

I mentioned Mike Roberts based solely on what was said about him by former players at the time of his hire.  This is not is first assistant position, if I'm correct.  So, I figure, he's at least worth an honorable mention.

For the remaining names, I never say never.  This list is my fantasy list, lol. So, of course, I start at the top. 2, 3 - never say never. Beilein, imo, would be great here. 5 - someone mentioned Hoiberg, and I like the guy. I figure maybe it's a possibility, he's got B1G experience and knowledge, which I think is a plus. 6 - Wittman is someone mentioned by former players on a podcast I listen to (Hoosier Hysterics).  I think it was either Steve Risley or Joe Hillman - maybe it was Risley - who mentioned him.  Randy certainly has a wealth of bball knowledge and with the NBA connection, I think that's a major plus.  Wittman might be someone you could bring in for a few, with an assistant lined up to be an understudy with him.

There are probably others I'm not thinking of; it's been a long year and honestly I've not paid as much attention to bball this year as usual.  But darn when I heard that CBS NCAA tournament music on a tweet the other day, I nearly wanted to cry knowing IU probably won't be in it this year.

[MrsStoller]

3 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

You two IU grads? Stoller’s?

haha, yes!  A nod to one of my favorite movies

[Madison22]

18 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

I wonder if it’s more than a 50/50 shot that he’s gone this season

 If this team shot 50%, we wouldn't be looking for a new coach. 

[MrsStoller]

4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

That's the part that really worries me. As we all know in the plus or minus 10 year age range you say.....a generation is lost. Right now it's all just hot air. They (being the students and up to age 30 or so) despite a few moments don't know good this thing is when it's right. 

I remember going to the 1987 Indy 500 parade. Could care less about the race....just wanted to see the IU team/Alford drive by me just for a few seconds. It was that special. 

Hope we get it back. Bama did with Saban. Kentucky did with Cal. Maybe we have a care still. 

Exactly.  I think we'll get it back.  

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, Madison22 said:

 If this team shot 50%, we wouldn't be looking for a new coach. 

Shoot (no pun) I'd take 35% from 2 feet. 

[Inequality]

12 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

With everything people are hearing at this point, I wonder if it’s more than a 50/50 shot that he’s gone this season, or if it still isn’t even safe to say it’s that high. There definitely seems to be plenty of smoke, and the talk about replacements is pretty high. Like Scott said, I could see hopes getting high thinking there is going to be a change and a then a letdown at this point from a lot of people if he comes back.

I think it’s a tough move but necessary. I don’t see any possibility of fan base recovery at this point.

Recruiting isn’t going to be there for a guy treading water.

The IU faithful are many. The ones close to me have tuned out. Family members who’ve been multi-generation ticket holders have forfeited tickets and stopped donating.

If a change is made, by golly they better go big time, no holds barred. An underwhelming hire will just continue to shrink the fan base.

It’s not that hard. No genius required. You want to win big, you invest big. Your only going to get out of it what your willing to put into it.

[eddy4iu]

38 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Trust me. I know you the game. I'll say it again the worst mistake I made was not buying season in year 2 of Crean. I'd be in 17th row main by this point.

Ha!  I caught the perfect storm at the end of the Davis era when fan dissatisfaction was at record highs AND the "inventory" of bleacher seats previously controlled by Knight were being "freed up."  For a rather significant increase in my annual giving level I moved from mid main-level seats to side court bleachers and have enjoyed those seats for 17 years.  Pretty much caught lightning in a bottle. Or should I say "bought" lightning in a bottle - LOL.

I get where you are coming from is all I'm saying.

 

[Seeking6]

3 minutes ago, eddy4iu said:

Ha!  I caught the perfect storm at the end of the Davis era when fan dissatisfaction was at record highs AND the "inventory" of bleacher seats previously controlled by Knight were being "freed up."  For a rather significant increase in my annual giving level I moved from mid main-level seats to side court bleachers and have enjoyed those seats for 17 years.  Pretty much caught lightning in a bottle. Or should I say "bought" lightning in a bottle - LOL.

I get where you are coming from is all I'm saying.

 

Good for you! I missed that one and by the time I started ramping up things....row 37 it is. I'll get back down there again at some point. 

[MrsStoller]

4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Good for you! I missed that one and by the time I started ramping up things....row 37 it is. I'll get back down there again at some point. 

As someone who still watches mainly from my sofa, I envy all of you with season tickets!  Some day!!  A girl can dream! 

[KoB2011]

Haven't read the last several pages, but if it hasn't been said it needs to be...

If there is a mutual agreement Archie isn't leaving a large chunk of money. He would still negotiate some type of buyout, likely a lump sum without anything offsetting, and he will be able to have more pick in his future landing spot which will likely protect future earnings. 

IF that has happened, it's likely best for all parties. But to be clear, there is no scenario that Archie is leaving $10M on the table. That's not how his contract works if he got fired. 

[H00sier]

2 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

He’s super pumped now...

he got an awesome buy out 😏

Exactly my thoughts, only way I’d imagine him being “energized and pumped” with the team we’ve seen is he already knows he’s gonna be cashing a fat check and taking a year off, but I’ve been wrong plenty of times.

[DC2345]

It really doesn’t surprise me that Archie hasn’t lived up to the job. I read somewhere and it was maybe on here that Glass settled on Archie early and didn’t look at other candidates. If that’s true then that was a mistake and a terrible job by an athletic director. You should always meet with a couple of candidates just to be able to compare their coaching styles and how they would improve the program. If there’s a change hopefully Dolson is smarter than that unless it’s a home run hire which there’s really only one of those.

[John S]

Ok. In order to spice up the discussion on possible replacements.   Brian “Dutch” Dutcher, head coach of San Diego St Aztecs.  Mtn West Conf, like Alford at Nevada.  Dutchers 4-yr record is 93-30. He is Minn grad, son of former Big Ten coach, and was a long time asst coach under Steve Fischer.  Highly reputed as teacher, coach and recruiter.  He doesnt have the polish in front of cameras like the Alfords of the world.  But he is genuine blue collar type of leader.   Too bad he’s 60 already, and probably loves Aztec program and warm weather. Almost forgot to mention that he co recruited Kawhi Leornard.  Dutch is paid less than half of Archie.    

 

 

 

[8Bucks]

11 hours ago, JugRox said:

IMO this is the most important thing about Drew. He is winning in a power 5 conference without a single player ranked in the top 50. His first top 25 ranked recruiting class in the last 5 years is next year.

Miller not having enough talent is a big problem. Crean didn't have enough talent when he failed.

It would be nice to have a coach win without having to out talent the other team.

On top of all that, Drew would bring in more talent at Indiana than he would at Baylor.

Is he the long term solution? I don't know.

But I think he would be the coach to turn things around the fastest. Which would be a lot of transfers and junior college kids in the next 2 years.

The thing I like about Drew is that he used to chase the 5*s but changed his recruiting strategy a few years back. He has a more Villanova like approach now which is what I hoped Archie would bring.  

https://www.si.com/college/2020/02/28/scott-drew-baylor-basketball

Drew would probably have to address the Hanner issue but that and the phone calls were so long ago they do not seem to have been reoccurring patterns. 

[madmax]

21 minutes ago, H00sier said:

Exactly my thoughts, only way I’d imagine him being “energized and pumped” with the team we’ve seen is he already knows he’s gonna be cashing a fat check and taking a year off, but I’ve been wrong plenty of times.

Full disclosure: I’m one of the 7 people left hoping Archie gets another year. 

But do you really honestly think that Archie was “energized and pumped” at the thought of cashing a fat check? Does that really seem like something he would do? The famously stoic man who already has made more money then he could ever possibly need in 5 lifetimes is excited for a few more million? So excited that it spills over into an interview?

Coaches do care about money. But I’d bet more then anything he would trade a few million for a better record over the past 4 years.

I feel like our fan base is setting itself up for extreme disappointment soon. Maybe I’m wrong, probably am, but we will see...

[H00sier]

37 minutes ago, madmax said:

Full disclosure: I’m one of the 7 people left hoping Archie gets another year. 

But do you really honestly think that Archie was “energized and pumped” at the thought of cashing a fat check? Does that really seem like something he would do? The famously stoic man who already has made more money then he could ever possibly need in 5 lifetimes is excited for a few more million? So excited that it spills over into an interview?

Coaches do care about money. But I’d bet more then anything he would trade a few million for a better record over the past 4 years.

I feel like our fan base is setting itself up for extreme disappointment soon. Maybe I’m wrong, probably am, but we will see...

Truthfully I was making light of the energized and pumped comment, I can’t think of a reason to be pumped about anything IU basketball related. 

For the record, I wanted Coach to be successful and welcomed his “stoic” manner after Coach Creans sideline antics. In hindsight, we might as well kept Crean, wouldn’t be 5 years without a tourney invite. If Miller is here next year, I will start the season full of hope like past seasons, a switch could be flipped and Miller could excel beyond our wildest dreams and in 20 years we could be saying thankfully we didn’t pull the plug  on him in year 4. 

[Inequality]

41 minutes ago, H00sier said:

Truthfully I was making light of the energized and pumped comment, I can’t think of a reason to be pumped about anything IU basketball related. 

For the record, I wanted Coach to be successful and welcomed his “stoic” manner after Coach Creans sideline antics. In hindsight, we might as well kept Crean, wouldn’t be 5 years without a tourney invite. If Miller is here next year, I will start the season full of hope like past seasons, a switch could be flipped and Miller could excel beyond our wildest dreams and in 20 years we could be saying thankfully we didn’t pull the plug  on him in year 4. 

That last statement is similar to that slot machine your afraid to walk away from because it hasn’t hit and in your mind your thinking it could hit at any time. Similarly, a waste of time and money. I hate that a once blue blood would take such a gamble.