Billingsley99 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Best question I've heard in a while... Most questions can be good questions if you just word it the RIGHT way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 49 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: Hope Chris is right. He almost always is. I am not going to celebrate anyone getting fired. If this is true, I hope they have someone lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: He also didn't have to deal with a pandemic year...and the argument on this site is that at year 4 he should be contending for a B1G championship, not mired in the middle of the pack... No other coaches this year had to, just CAM, other coaches in year 2 and 4 seemed to find a way to overcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: He also didn't have to deal with a pandemic year...and the argument on this site is that at year 4 he should be contending for a B1G championship, not mired in the middle of the pack... But Mr IUFLA, wouldn’t 10th be considered below mid pack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 Just now, Billingsley99 said: Most questions can be good questions if you just word it the RIGHT way. Yep...Just like one basketball game can make a season...You cited losing 12-13, but I just want to point out that even with that, we were basically a playoff game in the BTT with Ohio State away from going... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 Just now, Inequality said: But Mr IUFLA, wouldn’t 10th be considered below mid pack? LOts to consider when assessing this year, and I've said them til I'm blue in the face... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana8585 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Yep...Just like one basketball game can make a season...You cited losing 12-13, but I just want to point out that even with that, we were basically a playoff game in the BTT with Ohio State away from going... Did we go? No so who cares if we “almost” made it. You seem to do everything to misrepresent Archie in some great light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 43 minutes ago, Muddy River said: I believe John had a conference record of something like 30 and 42 in his first 4 seasons at Michigan. Would we allow him a 5th year after a start like that? Given his age, you'd have to get a coach in waiting at some point during those 4 years and go through with the transition regardless of his performance I'd think. His age is why I wouldn't hire him because of just this possibility. He may come in and knock it out of the park. Or he might not. If he doesn't we're in a really bad situation given his age. He was 54 and had proven success at WV before starting that way at Michigan. He'd be 68 starting here and so would be 72 after 4 years in that scenario. You'd have to have a coach in waiting which is a tricky situation to navigate with a new hire. Turdue did it, but replaced a coach who had been there a long time with one of his former players brought in a couple of years early. That seems like the ideal way to do it, and with Beilein it wouldn't be anywhere close to that. This article from Mike Decourcy is from a year ago and preached patience with Miller and referenced patience paying off with Wright and Beilien. I wonder how he feels about it now? https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/indiana-should-give-archie-miller-time-not-make-a-beeline-for-his-successor/9q6f8nd5y96r13ynqi09kifvf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaprice14 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: He also didn't have to deal with a pandemic year...and the argument on this site is that at year 4 he should be contending for a B1G championship, not mired in the middle of the pack... Yes CAM had to deal with a pandemic year. I believe that so did Underwood and Holtmann had to as well in their 4th year. I don't believe that the pandemic is an excuse for the lack of development both individually and as a team through out his 4 years at IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yep...Just like one basketball game can make a season...You cited losing 12-13, but I just want to point out that even with that, we were basically a playoff game in the BTT with Ohio State away from going... We also got absolutely blown out by ISU and Fort Wayne in Assembly Hall. That right there was our first clue that Archie was in way over his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana8585 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: He also didn't have to deal with a pandemic year...and the argument on this site is that at year 4 he should be contending for a B1G championship, not mired in the middle of the pack... Middle of the pack? Maybe he could have just one winning conference record in 4 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yep...Just like one basketball game can make a season...You cited losing 12-13, but I just want to point out that even with that, we were basically a playoff game in the BTT with Ohio State away from going... Yes we were and we lost. 12 of 13 is worst losing streak in IU history. CAM is 1st coach in IU history to have 4 years under 500 in Conference play. While any 1 question can sway things in either direction his losing losing record tells the whole story. With 2 NBA players had the worst losing streak in IU history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, aaprice14 said: Yes CAM had to deal with a pandemic year. I believe that so did Underwood and Holtmann had to as well in their 4th year. I don't believe that the pandemic is an excuse for the lack of development both individually and as a team through out his 4 years at IU. Your argument was that even though Beilein finished well below .500 in his first 4 years, he was retained for year 5 because of 2 NCAA appearances... I was just pointing out that 1 game and a pandemic prevented Archie from having basically the same scenario... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaprice14 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Your argument was that even though Beilein finished well below .500 in his first 4 years, he was retained for year 5 because of 2 NCAA appearances... I was just pointing out that 1 game and a pandemic prevented Archie from having basically the same scenario... We are discussing this topic because CAM hasn't been able to win the games needed to remain the coach. His rank in the league has continued to decline. Do you think he has what it takes to turn this program around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 18 minutes ago, Indiana8585 said: Did we go? No so who cares if we “almost” made it. You seem to do everything to misrepresent Archie in some great light. Not at all...If you can find a post from me saying he's great or the results are great, I'll tip my hat to you...but you won't... I'm just saying be fair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Your argument was that even though Beilein finished well below .500 in his first 4 years, he was retained for year 5 because of 2 NCAA appearances... I was just pointing out that 1 game and a pandemic prevented Archie from having basically the same scenario... He was retained because he won 21 games, 7 games above 500 and had his team coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, aaprice14 said: We are discussing this topic because CAM hasn't been able to win the games needed to remain the coach. His rank in the league has continued to decline. Do you think he has what it takes to turn this program around? I don't know...And no one on this site knows for sure...I see things about him I like, and there are some things I question... I just think it's a better option to give him year 5 than trying to bring in 90% of the names that are being mentioned as his replacement... For the last time, if we're .500 or below in the B1G and struggling to make the NCAA tournament after next year, I'm all in on a coaching search... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: He was retained because he won 21 games, 7 games above 500 and had his team coming back. You guys have to settle on what means more...Overall record or conference record...after 4 years Beilein was 67-67 overall...Archie is 67-57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaprice14 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I don't know...And no one on this site knows for sure...I see things about him I like, and there are some things I question... I just think it's a better option to give him year 5 than trying to bring in 90% of the names that are being mentioned as his replacement... For the last time, if we're .500 or below in the B1G and struggling to make the NCAA tournament after next year, I'm all in on a coaching search... That might be right, but I would hate to see if you are wrong. If CAM is only here 1 more year, that will put us behind on a rebuild. If we end up worse next year, that would make it harder to entice a new quality coach or decent recruits to come to IU. Why comment to a coach that has 1 foot out the door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: I don't know...And no one on this site knows for sure...I see things about him I like, and there are some things I question... I just think it's a better option to give him year 5 than trying to bring in 90% of the names that are being mentioned as his replacement... For the last time, if we're .500 or below in the B1G and struggling to make the NCAA tournament after next year, I'm all in on a coaching search... Believe it or not I see many of the things that you see. What I don't see are things I like with the program. I so badly wanted to see CAM do well obviously for IU and my love but also because my father in law told me the day CAM was hired it was a huge mistake. I posted it a long time ago all the things that he saw and I hate to admit he has been spot on. I just don't think you can waste another year and just dig the hole deeper and deeper. You can see this team is not together at all. Just watch some of the mid majors and other teams that are not great and many of them you see a team a brotherhood that I got your back and you have mine. I have not seen that from this program for a long time. I look for little signs because thats just the way my mind works. In each year we have made excuses of why the team just does not seem to be all in or all on the same path. 1st is was Romeo and then Devonte and Justin and all the Crean players etc.. You are a very intelligent man and if that was your team under you and every year you have this type of division at what point is it your fault? For what ever reason we have made excuse after excuse for CAM and its because we are all tired of how things have been and so badly want him to be the guy. He isn't and some are still hanging on to that and I can't anymore. I don't want to keep getting a new coach but sometimes when the problem is so obvious we over look it and IMO CAM and what he is trying to do IS the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: You guys have to settle on what means more...Overall record or conference record...after 4 years Beilein was 67-67 overall...Archie is 67-57 No we don't we need to see improvement and I am sure if you dig heard enough you can find a stat that shows improvement but across the board it is not there. JB went from 10 wins to 24 that is tangible improvement. This year CAM will have the most losses since being at IU and this was a shortened season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said: Believe it or not I see many of the things that you see. What I don't see are things I like with the program. I so badly wanted to see CAM do well obviously for IU and my love but also because my father in law told me the day CAM was hired it was a huge mistake. I posted it a long time ago all the things that he saw and I hate to admit he has been spot on. I just don't think you can waste another year and just dig the hole deeper and deeper. You can see this team is not together at all. Just watch some of the mid majors and other teams that are not great and many of them you see a team a brotherhood that I got your back and you have mine. I have not seen that from this program for a long time. I look for little signs because thats just the way my mind works. In each year we have made excuses of why the team just does not seem to be all in or all on the same path. 1st is was Romeo and then Devonte and Justin and all the Crean players etc.. You are a very intelligent man and if that was your team under you and every year you have this type of division at what point is it your fault? For what ever reason we have made excuse after excuse for CAM and its because we are all tired of how things have been and so badly want him to be the guy. He isn't and some are still hanging on to that and I can't anymore. I don't want to keep getting a new coach but sometimes when the problem is so obvious we over look it and IMO CAM and what he is trying to do IS the problem And I see some of the concerning things you do as well...But as I said, next year is the make or break for me... You coached, and I value your opinion a lot...But think back and tell me that losing your second leading scorer for the bevy of the conference season, and having your leader hobbled by injuries these last 5 games makes no difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUProfessor Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 A little late to the party on this one, but the alleged quote from Dolson about him and Archie being on the same page doesn't strike me as being a sign that Archie is coming back. For instance, he could have meant that he and Archie are on the same page that IU should be in the dance every year. Or that they're on the same page that a sub-.500 record won't get it done. That could mean any number of things other than a sign of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Believe it or not I see many of the things that you see. What I don't see are things I like with the program. I so badly wanted to see CAM do well obviously for IU and my love but also because my father in law told me the day CAM was hired it was a huge mistake. I posted it a long time ago all the things that he saw and I hate to admit he has been spot on. I just don't think you can waste another year and just dig the hole deeper and deeper. You can see this team is not together at all. Just watch some of the mid majors and other teams that are not great and many of them you see a team a brotherhood that I got your back and you have mine. I have not seen that from this program for a long time. I look for little signs because thats just the way my mind works. In each year we have made excuses of why the team just does not seem to be all in or all on the same path. 1st is was Romeo and then Devonte and Justin and all the Crean players etc.. You are a very intelligent man and if that was your team under you and every year you have this type of division at what point is it your fault? For what ever reason we have made excuse after excuse for CAM and its because we are all tired of how things have been and so badly want him to be the guy. He isn't and some are still hanging on to that and I can't anymore. I don't want to keep getting a new coach but sometimes when the problem is so obvious we over look it and IMO CAM and what he is trying to do IS the problem Gosh this sums my thoughts up BIG TIME. Only thing I’d add is that all my impressions of Archie are positive so I also just really LIKE the guy. But it’s OVER in my mind. And even if he does come back and TJD did for some weird reason and we did show some improvement and moved to 5th to 6th in the Big Ten...that somehow some supporters of Archie would be like “oh see! There we go we are climbing back.” That’s not good enough. If he came back he’d have to blow the doors off to impress me. A undies team that finishes top 3 and was on the hunt for the BT Title all year, made the tourney ans either got to the Sweet 16 or drew a HARD second round match up and played them wicked well AND had some great talent coming in and more great talented beyond strongly interested. Anything less than ALL of that isn’t gonna cut it. We don’t need to see a step on the right direction if he’s back. We’ve needed to see that already. We need a HUGE LEAP to have a shot all the while any bad games the base will be at his throat and the team. in short...NOT likely going to happen. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted March 11, 2021 Report Share Posted March 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: And I see some of the concerning things you do as well...But as I said, next year is the make or break for me... You coached, and I value your opinion a lot...But think back and tell me that losing your second leading scorer for the bevy of the conference season, and having your leader hobbled by injuries these last 5 games makes no difference... It makes a HUGE difference but we you sit on 2 schollys you have no one to blame for not having available players. The excuse of our bench are all freshmen, well whose fault is that. At PU they have had 4 freshmen named BIg frosh of the week. No excuse to not have guys ready to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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