Indiana HS Football 2021

[btownqb]

Just now, rico said:

I am in no position to decide that.  And it doesn't really matter, the point is you are persistent in your negativity towards "covid protocols" and how they affect sports.

You mean I'm negative when two different teams will miss out on their first football game because the protocols are ridiculous? You realize these kids only get a guaranteed 10 games per year..... Yeah, you are right. I am pretty persistently negative about something that's been botched so many times its absurd. 

Should I jump for joy that kids are getting games canceled AGAIN!????? 15 days to stop the spread. 

[rico]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

You mean I'm negative when two different teams will miss out on their first football game because the protocols are ridiculous? You realize these kids only get a guaranteed 10 games per year..... Yeah, you are right. I am pretty persistently negative about something that's been botched so many times its absurd. 

Should I jump for joy that kids are getting games canceled AGAIN!????? 15 days to stop the spread. 

That it is up to you to decide what is best for kids that are not yours?  You a member of the Jeffersonville School Board?  The IHSAA?  Perhaps a member of the Indiana House?  C'mon bro.  

Let the people that are in charge botch it...remember to vote.

[btownqb]

30 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

I think the Delta variant has caused concerns regarding younger folks.  Until a larger number of people are vaccinated, I think we're going to see people in decision-making positions being cautious.  JMHO.    😊

I also don't know that they ever get the whole picture when they make decisions. I think they make their decisions to appease the public, rather than do right by our athletes. 

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, rico said:

That it is up to you to decide what is best for kids that are not yours?  You a member of the Jeffersonville School Board?  The IHSAA?  Perhaps a member of the Indiana House?  C'mon bro.  

Let the people that are in charge botch it...remember to vote.

Probably not going to do any of that. 

Jeff literally is in the same school district as someone we play. I am a member of the IFCA. Jeffersonville HS isn't the one deciding this, you understand that right? The state and health dept are deciding for them. You can live as a sheep. I won't. 

[btownqb]

It's not up to me at all. I never ONCE said it was. But... it should be up to the school, the parents, the coaches, and the players if their games are canceled. Not some slap d*** health dept that can't tie it's own shoes. Crazy talk if you think we should allow outside influencers decide if it's safe or not for an age group that is not effected by the virus, virtually at all, have their lives turned upside down. 

[btownqb]

Plus the 10 practice rule is just outdated. 

[5fouls]

I have concerns about the virus and believe vaccination is the best course of action.  But, irregardless of that...

- Contact tracing is a flawed method to fight this thing and should not be considered a solution.

- The 10 practice rule applies in all sports, not just football, and is stupid unless applied to a transfer student.  If a player has been participating in workouts all summer it is especially ridiculous.

Edited August 9, 2021 by 5fouls

[5fouls]

One of the consequences of the punitive results of contact tracing is that it will cause people to not get tested to avoid the consequences of getting quarantined.  With vaccines available to those that want them, there needs to be a better way so that students are not robbed of these kind of high school memories.

[Steubenhoosier]

I have been a coach, so I understand the passion of leading athletes and helping them develop

I am a parent, so I understand the need to protect my children, as well as the fact that sometimes disappointment in not being able to do something is a fact of life

I have sat on boards so I know that sometimes decisions are made for the greater (or perceived) greater good.

Where I believe the argument breaks down is in the belief, assumption or whatever you want to call it, that covid-19 has no real negative implications to teenagers. That is faulty thinking in that the virus has not been in existence long enough to determine if there are any long term effects on this population. We won't know this for years. It is irresponsible as an adult to lead young people into situations that might have serious long-term impacts on their health. When the alternatives exist, when a vaccine is available to avoid the risk, why risk it? The same argument that we don't know all the risks associated with the vaccine can be made that we don't know the long-term risks of contracting covid. Some leadership has to make a determination. Popular or not.

I get that a decision to postpone or possibly cancel athletics takes away the opportunity for kids to build "lifelong memories." For over 90% of these kids, that's all high school sports is...memories. Very few have the skill, drive and work ethic to play beyond high school. Sacrificing a few "memories" for the greater good shouldn't even be up for discussion.

[btownqb]

Again.. the 10 practice rule is outdated and contact tracing doesn't work. That's the topic.. not the vaccine.  

[5fouls]

6 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I have been a coach, so I understand the passion of leading athletes and helping them develop

I am a parent, so I understand the need to protect my children, as well as the fact that sometimes disappointment in not being able to do something is a fact of life

I have sat on boards so I know that sometimes decisions are made for the greater (or perceived) greater good.

Where I believe the argument breaks down is in the belief, assumption or whatever you want to call it, that covid-19 has no real negative implications to teenagers. That is faulty thinking in that the virus has not been in existence long enough to determine if there are any long term effects on this population. We won't know this for years. It is irresponsible as an adult to lead young people into situations that might have serious long-term impacts on their health. When the alternatives exist, when a vaccine is available to avoid the risk, why risk it? The same argument that we don't know all the risks associated with the vaccine can be made that we don't know the long-term risks of contracting covid. Some leadership has to make a determination. Popular or not.

I get that a decision to postpone or possibly cancel athletics takes away the opportunity for kids to build "lifelong memories." For over 90% of these kids, that's all high school sports is...memories. Very few have the skill, drive and work ethic to play beyond high school. Sacrificing a few "memories" for the greater good shouldn't even be up for discussion.

I realize this is an example specifically designed to fit my narrative, but based on your post above, I'm curious as to how you would handle.

Set aside football for a moment because of the numbers.  Let's look at volleyball instead.  Assume 15 members on the team.  All 15 are vaccinated.  Pre-season party at Cindy's house.  Cindy's little sister is 11 years old and ineligible for the vaccine.  Little sis hangs out with the team in th he family's game room for the entirety of the party. Two days after the party, Cindy's sister is diagnosed with Covid.  The whole team gets quarantined.

Should the team really get quarantined since they are all vaccinated?  Will Cindy's parents get backlash from the community for taking her to get tested (the answer, unfortunately, is yes)?

Vaccines are 99.99% effective against serious illness.  Build your quarantining rules around that, not contact tracing.

[btownqb]

Btw.. the 7 day average for deaths from Covid in Indiana is 7. Obviously that would average out to be 365 a year... We've stayed at that rate for a bit now. 

 

[rico]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I realize this is an example specifically designed to fit my narrative, but based on your post above, I'm curious as to how you would handle.

Set aside football for a moment because of the numbers.  Let's look at volleyball instead.  Assume 15 members on the team.  All 15 are vaccinated.  Pre-season party at Cindy's house.  Cindy's little sister is 11 years old and ineligible for the vaccine.  Little sis hangs out with the team in th he family's game room for the entirety of the party. Two days after the party, Cindy's sister is diagnosed with Covid.  The whole team gets quarantined.

Should the team really get quarantined since they are all vaccinated?  Will Cindy's parents get backlash from the community for taking her to get tested (the answer, unfortunately, is yes)?

Vaccines are 99.99% effective against serious illness.  Build your quarantining rules around that, not contact tracing.

What would you say if all 15 members of the volleyball team weren't vaccinated?

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I realize this is an example specifically designed to fit my narrative, but based on your post above, I'm curious as to how you would handle.

Set aside football for a moment because of the numbers.  Let's look at volleyball instead.  Assume 15 members on the team.  All 15 are vaccinated.  Pre-season party at Cindy's house.  Cindy's little sister is 11 years old and ineligible for the vaccine.  Little sis hangs out with the team in th he family's game room for the entirety of the party. Two days after the party, Cindy's sister is diagnosed with Covid.  The whole team gets quarantined.

Should the team really get quarantined since they are all vaccinated?  Will Cindy's parents get backlash from the community for taking her to get tested (the answer, unfortunately, is yes)?

Vaccines are 99.99% effective against serious illness.  Build your quarantining rules around that, not contact tracing.

But what does a positive test do for that family? That's what I don't understand. Assuming her symptoms are what they usually are for an 11 year old with Covid. 

I realize what you're saying. I'm just asking. 

[Steubenhoosier]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I realize this is an example specifically designed to fit my narrative, but based on your post above, I'm curious as to how you would handle.

Set aside football for a moment because of the numbers.  Let's look at volleyball instead.  Assume 15 members on the team.  All 15 are vaccinated.  Pre-season party at Cindy's house.  Cindy's little sister is 11 years old and ineligible for the vaccine.  Little sis hangs out with the team in th he family's game room for the entirety of the party. Two days after the party, Cindy's sister is diagnosed with Covid.  The whole team gets quarantined.

Should the team really get quarantined since they are all vaccinated?  Will Cindy's parents get backlash from the community for taking her to get tested (the answer, unfortunately, is yes)?

Vaccines are 99.99% effective against serious illness.  Build your quarantining rules around that, not contact tracing.

You asked how I would handle this....but then you painted the picture that I should only build rules one way.

To answer your question, science has shown that even vaccinated people can get the virus. The vaccine does not prevent that. I would require quarantine, not 14 days but a shorter period, maybe 5 days. Have a negative test and then your good to go. Better safe than sorry. Community backlash is an unfortunate sidebar to this issue. Better safe than sorry.

[btownqb]

Just now, rico said:

What would you say if all 15 members of the volleyball team weren't vaccinated?

That unless they show signs of being sick.... They're expected at school just like every other illness. 

Quarantining perfectly healthy individuals has to be the most unconstitutional thing we've allowed in a LONG time.  

[5fouls]

Just now, rico said:

What would you say if all 15 members of the volleyball team weren't vaccinated?

If none of them are vaccinated, then get them tested, and no volleyball until that's done.   If 12 are vaccinated, those 12 can continue to play while the 3 who are not would be required to get a negative test.

[btownqb]

There has been about 1 death per week in the county I live in since March 2020. I'm trying to find a logical reason why we've allowed this to run our lives for so long.... I can't come up with one. 

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

But what does a positive test do for that family? That's what I don't understand. Assuming her symptoms are what they usually are for an 11 year old with Covid. 

I realize what you're saying. I'm just asking. 

I'm never going to criticize a parent for getting their kid tested.  Maybe the girl has a condition not publicly known.  Even is she doesn't, there needs to be a rule that is fair to those not at risk, which in my example are the girls who were vaccinated.

As a parent, I will be very upset if either of my kids get quarantined from school this year since they are vaccinated.  It happened multiple times to both of them last year, but they were not vaccinated yet. This year they are, and I feel that should be enough to keep them in class unless th hey actually get sick.   Sports aside, kids simply do not learn sheet while schooling at home.

[Hoosierfan1901]

SIAC standings about to change if the rumors are true about Castle. They’ve apparently lost another starter at O-line, which means their entire line will have to be replaced

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm never going to criticize a parent for getting their kid tested.  Maybe the girl has a condition not publicly known.  Even is she doesn't, there needs to be a rule that is fair to those not at risk, which in my example are the girls who were vaccinated.

As a parent, I will be very upset if either of my kids get quarantined from school this year since they are vaccinated.  It happened multiple times to both of them last year, but they were not vaccinated yet. This year they are, and I feel that should be enough to keep them in class unless th hey actually get sick.   Sports aside, kids simply do not learn sheet while schooling at home.

I think students should be in class regardless of their vaccination or not.. as long as they aren't sick. Some as it's always been. 

[5fouls]

11 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

You asked how I would handle this....but then you painted the picture that I should only build rules one way.

To answer your question, science has shown that even vaccinated people can get the virus. The vaccine does not prevent that. I would require quarantine, not 14 days but a shorter period, maybe 5 days. Have a negative test and then your good to go. Better safe than sorry. Community backlash is an unfortunate sidebar to this issue. Better safe than sorry.

I'm trying not to turn this into a vaccination promotion, but if 99.9999% of people vaccinated are safe from serious illness, then their lives should not be disrupted because someone else has chosen not to get the vaccine.  There needs to be separate protocols for those that are versus those that are not.  

[5fouls]

13 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I think students should be in class regardless of their vaccination or not.. as long as they aren't sick. Some as it's always been. 

I'm not saying an unvaccinated student/player should be quarantined for 14 days, or whatever.  But, I can support the notion of having a negative test before they participate.  It's not a perfect solution, but is fair to those that are vaccinated but still offers a little bit of extra protection for those that are not.

Bottom line is that cancelling a football game that is 12 days away is truly unnecessary.

Edited August 9, 2021 by 5fouls

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm not saying an unvaccinated student/player should be quarantined for 14 days, or whatever.  But, I can support the notion of having a negative test before they participate.  It's not a perfect solution, but is fair to those that are vaccinated but still offers a little bit of extra protection for those that are not.

Bottom line is that cancelling a football game that is 12 days away is truly unnecessary.

We're very close in our thoughts. And I bet I'd lean more towards your thoughts if I were a parent and you towards mine if you were a coach. Good luck to the Creekers. 

[5fouls]

Follow-Up on the Jeffersonville piece of the story.  Greater Clark Schools, which Jeffersonville is part of, has over 1,100 kids on quarantine.  Story was on the local news tonight. Not sure what Greater Clark's enrollment is, but I have to think that is around, or even north of 10%.