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Let The Negative Recruiting Begin


5fouls
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As we all know, with the Purdue loss, there is no longer a mystery about whether Archie is on the hot seat or not.  Even if the administration is willing to be patient, the fan base has turned.  In the era of social media that becomes a very difficult thing to overcome.  

So,  my question is this.  How does Archie and IU combat this while on the recruiting trail.  Recruiting momentum has already slowed, even before this week.  There does not appear to be a 'Romeo' out there that could rejuvenate the fan base.  You can rest assured that Izzo, Holtman, Painter, and Underwood are going to remind kids of the situation when they are recruiting the same players.  

From my perspective, Archie's future is solely tied to the current roster.  There is no home run get, a la Zeller that will immediately shift a lagging future into a rosy one.

It's not a lost cause yet with Archie,  But, he needs a lot of good things to happen with the current roster (Duncomb counts since he has signed his LOI).  Finish out this year well enough to get in the tournament, and take a step forward next year, and recruiting could potentially start to pick up again.  But, if not, we're going to be trying to sell sand in a desert to potential recruits.

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33 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

As we all know, with the Purdue loss, there is no longer a mystery about whether Archie is on the hot seat or not.  Even if the administration is willing to be patient, the fan base has turned.  In the era of social media that becomes a very difficult thing to overcome.  

So,  my question is this.  How does Archie and IU combat this while on the recruiting trail.  Recruiting momentum has already slowed, even before this week.  There does not appear to be a 'Romeo' out there that could rejuvenate the fan base.  You can rest assured that Izzo, Holtman, Painter, and Underwood are going to remind kids of the situation when they are recruiting the same players.  

From my perspective, Archie's future is solely tied to the current roster.  There is no home run get, a la Zeller that will immediately shift a lagging future into a rosy one.

It's not a lost cause yet with Archie,  But, he needs a lot of good things to happen with the current roster (Duncomb counts since he has signed his LOI).  Finish out this year well enough to get in the tournament, and take a step forward next year, and recruiting could potentially start to pick up again.  But, if not, we're going to be trying to sell sand in a desert to potential recruits.

Since it's a new thread I'll respond. Wish we could just have one dump on the program thread. But that's just me. 

Put me in a room vs any of the 4 coaches you mentioned and even in turbulent times I could still win the battle.

Painter-Nice guy. Sometimes good coach. Doesn't have track record of guys getting in the league and staying in the league. Why would you want to play for the other program in the state? Lights still shine on Bloomington. Always have always will.

Izzo-Phenomenal coach and one of the all time greats....but Mr or Mrs Parent look at him. Looks like to me as his time is coming to an end.

Holtman-Basketball players like to play basketball at a basketball school. Mr or Mrs Recruit you are an after thought at Ohio St.

Underwood-...haha. So many to list. The best player to head there in last 2 decades (Ayo) needs at least 3 years to get to the league..and that's any next level league not the NBA. We can get you there in 2.,etc....

These are just versions or angles of what I'd be saying. Negative recruiting happens everywhere. Not just vs Archie. Shoot Calipari is probably not getting returned calls this morning. 

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SOME of the fan base have turned...not all. 

The squeaky wheel social media crowd has to come to the understanding that they're not even going to have a chance at getting their grease for a year and a half, and even then there are a lot of things that could happen.

Until then, their jabbering is only white noise...

I don't think Scott Dolson will be influenced by "influencers." 

That said, I've already stated what I would do. Offer a 2 year extension at the same $3 million dollar buyout and include heavier incentives for post season success. Archie's not a stupid guy. He knows the next year and a half will determine his fate. And that would be a fair compromise for both parties. 

 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

SOME of the fan base have turned...not all. 

The squeaky wheel social media crowd has to come to the understanding that they're not even going to have a chance at getting their grease for a year and a half, and even then there are a lot of things that could happen.

Until then, their jabbering is only white noise...

I don't think Scott Dolson will be influenced by "influencers." 

That said, I've already stated what I would do. Offer a 2 year extension at the same $3 million dollar buyout and include heavier incentives for post season success. Archie's not a stupid guy. He knows the next year and a half will determine his fate. And that would be a fair compromise for both parties. 

 

 

 

A large piece of the fan base wants Archie to succeed, but is concerned.  And, there are legitimate reasons to be concerned.  To ignore them at this point is not productive.   

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10 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

It started awhile ago.  There is a certain player at a Big 12 school that we recruited who was told by rival coaches that Archie wouldn’t be here for the kid’s four years.

Honestly, it's not out of the question that Archie could choose to move on.  His reputation still is strong enough that a Power 5 school might still be interested.  And, if so, why would Archie wait to potentially get fired here.  At that point, his reputation would take a bit of a hit.  

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Being now 2021, I often wonder how much ass coaches have to kiss in order to land someone they really want. Seems like everybody worthy has a top 5 list or in some instances top 12. With social media being so relevant, and with a lot more education being done virtually or some other non-traditional method, potential recruits and kids in general are subject to information overload. Being a high school teacher myself, I see this everyday.

In terms of Archie and recruiting...man...dude could do literally little wrong the last 3 years...Romeo? check. TJD? check. Lander and a year early? check

Leal and Galloway? Check check...How many realistic recruiting battles has CAM lost? Key word= REALISTIC...Dawson Garcia? sure. Trey Kaufman? yes no doubt. I want CAM to succeed (see previous posts regarding 5 year plan). 

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

A large piece of the fan base wants Archie to succeed, but is concerned.  And, there are legitimate reasons to be concerned.  To ignore them at this point is not productive.   

I hate to dispute this, but out of the crowd here, I've only seen a few who seem to want him to succeed, and one of them even couches any positive vibe in a no hope wrapper.

If you think I'm not concerned, you're wrong. If you think I'm gonna grab the shovel and start digging the grave right now, you're wrong about that too.

And to me, pushing false narratives about terrible recruiting, player development, and Christ, even Archie's demeanor aren't very productive either...

Let's get behind this coach and this team. If Archie isn't "the guy" in a year and a half, it'll be readily apparent even to the ultra optimistic like me.

And as far as going through the names for his replacement? Well, let's burn those bridges when we come to them...

😁

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54 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I hate to dispute this, but out of the crowd here, I've only seen a few who seem to want him to succeed, and one of them even couches any positive vibe in a no hope wrapper.

If you think I'm not concerned, you're wrong. If you think I'm gonna grab the shovel and start digging the grave right now, you're wrong about that too.

And to me, pushing false narratives about terrible recruiting, player development, and Christ, even Archie's demeanor aren't very productive either...

Let's get behind this coach and this team. If Archie isn't "the guy" in a year and a half, it'll be readily apparent even to the ultra optimistic like me.

And as far as going through the names for his replacement? Well, let's burn those bridges when we come to them...

😁

Amen. Nothing else to add....and with that I focus my efforts on watching football and making vegetable soup with leftovers from our garden thread. Froze sweet corn from September and I think a cold gray day is perfect to dig that out.

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3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Since it's a new thread I'll respond. Wish we could just have one dump on the program thread. But that's just me. 

Put me in a room vs any of the 4 coaches you mentioned and even in turbulent times I could still win the battle.

Painter-Nice guy. Sometimes good coach. Doesn't have track record of guys getting in the league and staying in the league. Why would you want to play for the other program in the state? Lights still shine on Bloomington. Always have always will.

Izzo-Phenomenal coach and one of the all time greats....but Mr or Mrs Parent look at him. Looks like to me as his time is coming to an end.

Holtman-Basketball players like to play basketball at a basketball school. Mr or Mrs Recruit you are an after thought at Ohio St.

Underwood-...haha. So many to list. The best player to head there in last 2 decades (Ayo) needs at least 3 years to get to the league..and that's any next level league not the NBA. We can get you there in 2.,etc....

These are just versions or angles of what I'd be saying. Negative recruiting happens everywhere. Not just vs Archie. Shoot Calipari is probably not getting returned calls this morning. 

I know I’m extremely biased but I think it’d be tough to negatively recruit against Painter right now if I’m Archie. He has the job security, the winning streak against IU, and a solid roster moving forward. If I’m a recruit, I’m thinking to myself, Archie’s time might be limited, he’s winless against Purdue, and overall there seems to be somewhat of a lack of development with his players. 

Edited by Stlboiler23
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10 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

He has the job security

A fan base obsessed with beating one particular team while being ok with overall mediocrity will get that for you...

 

12 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

overall there seems to be somewhat of a lack of development with his players. 

Again with that BS narrative...

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5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

So,  my question is this.  How does Archie and IU combat this while on the recruiting trail.  Recruiting momentum has already slowed, even before this week.  There does not appear to be a 'Romeo' out there that could rejuvenate the fan base.  You can rest assured that Izzo, Holtman, Painter, and Underwood are going to remind kids of the situation when they are recruiting the same players.  

 

 

21 minutes ago, rico said:

I really don't know how to respond properly to this thread.

 

Well, no one has really addressed the part of my post that I've copied here.  We all know this will be an issue, but maybe we want to stick our head in the sand and pretend that it won't be a problem.  But, it will.  

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Just now, 5fouls said:

 

Well, no one has really addressed the part of my post that I've copied here.  We all know this will be an issue, but maybe we want to stick our head in the sand and pretend that it won't be a problem.  But, it will.  

Well I would like to know the reason Archie(so far) has struck out with '21 recruits.  Something seems amiss especially with Goode.  What is the reason they didn't come to Bloomington?  Seems not too much more negative recruiting is required even if Archie's backside  is to the flame.

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8 minutes ago, rico said:

Well I would like to know the reason Archie(so far) has struck out with '21 recruits.  Something seems amiss especially with Goode.  What is the reason they didn't come to Bloomington?  Seems not too much more negative recruiting is required even if Archie's backside  is to the flame.

I think things are getting tougher.  Look at the current freshman class.  If we were where we are now when that group was deciding, how many of them would commit to IU with Archie's seat starting to get hot?  Maybe Leal?  Even he may have taken the Stanford offer.  

The situation we are in right now makes it very tough to recruit.  You have to take chances on kids that aren't getting other good offers and hope they develop.

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6 minutes ago, rico said:

Well I would like to know the reason Archie(so far) has struck out with '21 recruits.  Something seems amiss especially with Goode.  What is the reason they didn't come to Bloomington?  Seems not too much more negative recruiting is required even if Archie's backside  is to the flame.

Good question. and I have no clue as to why.

Archie needs a run in the tourney.  Something that is a tangible.  A win in the B1G tourney nobody's done that at IU.  Contend for B1G title next year.  Something to make the team and the fans believe there is hope.

He needs some player development and fast.

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17 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

 

Well, no one has really addressed the part of my post that I've copied here.  We all know this will be an issue, but maybe we want to stick our head in the sand and pretend that it won't be a problem.  But, it will.  

I think it has to be addressed with an extension. Any coach with less than 4 years on their contract that isn’t getting great results will have the same issue. 

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Just now, BeerBQ said:

I think it has to be addressed with an extension. Any coach with less than 4 years on their contract that isn’t getting great results will have the same issue. 

I agree.   Archie has 3 years left on his contract after this year.  You give him one year?  That's not a sign of confidence.  Give him two years and were in a situation that we may be keeping him way longer than we want.

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41 minutes ago, rico said:

Well I would like to know the reason Archie(so far) has struck out with '21 recruits.  Something seems amiss especially with Goode.  What is the reason they didn't come to Bloomington?  Seems not too much more negative recruiting is required even if Archie's backside  is to the flame.

Did Archie even offer Goode? Painter didn’t, but that was because he only had 2 spots this year. 

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3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

I hate to dispute this, but out of the crowd here, I've only seen a few who seem to want him to succeed, and one of them even couches any positive vibe in a no hope wrapper.

 

You're confusing thinking he'll fail with wanting him to fail. I think @5fouls was correct that most fans want Miller to succeed but now the number of fans thinking he won't is growing, and growing quickly. That's why this board seems so bipolar: IU will play a really good game or two and those who doubt start to think that maybe the team has turned the corner and is about to breakout. Then they go and have games like Purdue. Up and down, up and down. And it's not new issues each time, it's the same things that have been issues in the 3.5 years under Miller. If he suddenly figures out how to get the players to shoot well, play motivated all game every game, cut down on bad plays, etc and start winning consistently then a bunch of those people you think want him to fail would change their tunes because they don't want that. They want IU to be successful, regardless of who the coach is. There might be a few that do want him to fail because they really dislike him for whatever reason, but that is a very small minority.

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