Andrew Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Does this conversation even happen if iu wouldve beat wisconsin? Or if we win vs iowa thursday? Sometimes people on here go way extreme way fast. Losing sucks but so does only having a negative mindset 24/7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 37 minutes ago, IU Scott said: It was a joke since I said $5.00. You know me because I have been with you all of this time by supporting the coach but this year has not gotten any better from the other seasons. The Northwestern game was the one that started me to really think this is not going to work. Then the Purdue game is what made me realize that it probably won't work. We'll see at the end of the season... "It ain't over, til it's over." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Just now, IUFLA said: We'll see at the end of the season... "It ain't over, til it's over." I really hope he turns this around because I am sick and tired of losing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, Andrew said: Does this conversation even happen if iu wouldve beat wisconsin? Or if we win vs iowa thursday? Sometimes people on here go way extreme way fast. Losing sucks but so does only having a negative mindset 24/7 I think it is loosing to home time after time to purdue and watching one team fundamentally sound with hustle, and the other show the same common flaws as year one. Indiana has lost a bunch of close games this year, and in each it came down to who executed better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 23 hours ago, thirdgenhoosier said: It started awhile ago. There is a certain player at a Big 12 school that we recruited who was told by rival coaches that Archie wouldn’t be here for the kid’s four years. It's been going on forever. That's part of recruiting. If that affects recruits we would have had 0 players since the days when people thought Knight might head out to New Mexico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 19 hours ago, rico said: Well I would like to know the reason Archie(so far) has struck out with '21 recruits. Something seems amiss especially with Goode. What is the reason they didn't come to Bloomington? Seems not too much more negative recruiting is required even if Archie's backside is to the flame. I do hear from people close to many recruits. Right now many don't seem to think that IU Basketball is exciting. I said RL would do more positive for IU basketball off the court than on, unfortunately he was misused and I can tell you recruits are hearing that more than hearing hot seat talk. Recruits and their parents understand the "hot seat talk" it's minor compared to how they feel their son will benefit and be used in the offense. That is killing recruiting not hot seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: I do hear from people close to many recruits. Right now many don't seem to think that IU Basketball is exciting. I said RL would do more positive for IU basketball off the court than on, unfortunately he was misused and I can tell you recruits are hearing that more than hearing hot seat talk. Recruits and their parents understand the "hot seat talk" it's minor compared to how they feel their son will benefit and be used in the offense. That is killing recruiting not hot seat. How was Langford misused? Just an honest question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, 5 championships said: How was Langford misused? Just an honest question. There was an interview with his father after he was at IU. Very grateful full for IU and the coaching staff. All positive there. There was a segment where he said he would could Romeo and ask him why he would just stand in the corner or in one place (something like that) and Romeo would say that is whay coach wants me to do. Not saying that was misuse as it could of been strategy, but with him and Morgan and Green.....maybe they could of had less scoring droubts if used differently? Just basketball discussion at this point, not criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, 5 championships said: How was Langford misused? Just an honest question. To stand in the corner on same same side as Juwan. Told that RP is he PG and offense runs through him. I watched Romeo from 6th grade on and I never saw him just stand in the corner waiting for the ball. You put the ball in the hands of your best player. He was unstoppable from the top of the key even being all right hander with no outside shot. Being stuck in the corner hampered him and the team. That's where CAM being stubborn hurt his team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Just want to say Negative recruiting is part of the game. Every coach is negatively recruited against. Even Coach K. Kids are still going to programs like LSU and Arizona and Kansas and who knows if they could be hit hard at anytime. My only concern, and we hear this from time to time with recruits, is how hard is that recruit being recruited? We hear in quotes, they (IU) started to pickup their contact or recruiting...while others have been consistent from the start. They kind of start strong, go away and pickup. Relationships are important and so is the work you put in. Now, I could be off....just going off on quotes from recruits thay IU ended up in top 3 or so. As far as personality, Archie is a player coach...players seem to connect with him and think he is cool. Not concerned there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: To stand in the corner on same same side as Juwan. Told that RP is he PG and offense runs through him. I watched Romeo from 6th grade on and I never saw him just stand in the corner waiting for the ball. You put the ball in the hands of your best player. He was unstoppable from the top of the key even being all right hander with no outside shot. Being stuck in the corner hampered him and the team. That's where CAM being stubborn hurt his team Hmm I feel like we’ve had this discussion before haha I don’t think he was misused terrible. Maybe a little more off the ball movement where he could of worked off more Pin down and back screens and maybe a few more pick N rolls/pops on the right side with Morgan. Still averaged 16.5 with torn ligaments. Best year for an IU freshmen since Gordon. what hurt him more than anything was Injury and the lane being packed because we had basically no shooting around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, 5 championships said: Hmm I feel like we’ve had this discussion before haha I don’t think he was misused terrible. Maybe a little more off the ball movement where he could of worked off more Pin down and back screens and maybe a few more pick N rolls/pops on the right side with Morgan. Still averaged 16.5 with torn ligaments. Best year for an IU freshmen since Gordon. what hurt him more than anything was Injury and the lane being packed because we had basically no shooting around him. No doubt Langford was incredible and played with pain. Wish the team won more to cement his legacy as one of the all time greats. Which, stats wise should be. I hope Al Durham doesn't have a similar fate. The kid is tough and I beleive he exerts so much effort and is fearless. I do beleive to much is being put on him, being a pg...but as a 2/3 he has had a very good career at IU. Hope they can play in Indy in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 28 minutes ago, 5 championships said: Hmm I feel like we’ve had this discussion before haha I don’t think he was misused terrible. Maybe a little more off the ball movement where he could of worked off more Pin down and back screens and maybe a few more pick N rolls/pops on the right side with Morgan. Still averaged 16.5 with torn ligaments. Best year for an IU freshmen since Gordon. what hurt him more than anything was Injury and the lane being packed because we had basically no shooting around him. Agree completely but knowing you can't rely on his outside shot why put him and JM on same side. Adds a potential post defender. Put him.opposite for a kickoff to create a driving lane. I think he could have had an even better year and the team as a whole better. If you know his only strength is getting to the rim why put him on baseline and take away more driving lanes? Yes I think we have had this discussion before. I have talked with parents that have said misuse of RL and his drop in the draft are what some coaches use against Indiana in recruiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Interesting thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 25 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: No doubt Langford was incredible and played with pain. Wish the team won more to cement his legacy as one of the all time greats. Which, stats wise should be. I hope Al Durham doesn't have a similar fate. The kid is tough and I beleive he exerts so much effort and is fearless. I do beleive to much is being put on him, being a pg...but as a 2/3 he has had a very good career at IU. Hope they can play in Indy in March. Yea Durham is not a PG but being forced into The roll a little more because of Lander not being ready and Rob being ineffective/hurt. Al is Much much better off the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 5 hours ago, Billingsley99 said: To stand in the corner on same same side as Juwan. Told that RP is he PG and offense runs through him. I watched Romeo from 6th grade on and I never saw him just stand in the corner waiting for the ball. You put the ball in the hands of your best player. He was unstoppable from the top of the key even being all right hander with no outside shot. Being stuck in the corner hampered him and the team. That's where CAM being stubborn hurt his team 100%. I used to say that on this Board after every game. What annoyed me most was that we were on a massive losing string and we still didn’t do it. After watching Coach for 25 years where he would not sleep until he found solutions, I thought that was strike one. Out of those 13 games, worst case Coach wins 5-6 of them. But we won one. One! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 5:55 PM, IUFLA said: They sure have a funny way of showing it. Talking about kicking in money for the buyout? Over playing recruiting "failures" and lack of player development? 5hat in no way suggests support to me. As I said I'm concerned too... I am the one who knocked player development and I stand by that. You pointed out Morgan, Franklin, and Thompson. To me, Morgan's first two years were under Crean and most of his polish was applied before he played his first game with Miller. Franklin appears to have improved from one season to the next, I give you him. Thompson is a red shirt junior. He has gotten a bit better but if you compare his stats from last year to this, the biggest development appears to be the fact that Brunk got hurt and his minutes have more than doubled. Race gets credit because he is a player that appears to "care" on a team that has a bunch of guys who appear to be going through the motions. Now, you may think it unfair to knock Miller's development but Phinisee, Durham, Anderson (left program), Green, and Smith and others I am sure I am missing kind of speak to an issue with development IMO. You can disagree if you want but I would say that if development was happening at an acceptable level, we would not be having discussions about his job. Our recruiting has not been elite, but it has not been lower third of the Big Ten. If he even had middling recruits and was developing them, we would be in the middle are of the conference in the standings. We haven't done that since his first year with guys that were almost wholly developed by Tom Crean. I want him to succeed but as time goes on, he is giving less and less reason to believe that he will. And, when he gets year 5 (and he will), if he brings in a slew of transfers and puts together a winning season, he'll still have development issues if the majority of that production comes from transfers IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 42 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: To me, Morgan's first two years were under Crean and most of his polish was applied before he played his first game with Miller. Subjective I'd say...He had his two best years under Archie, and whether the polish was applied before or after isn't something we really know...Just going by the numbers...And there's no disputing they were better under CAM... 42 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Thompson is a red shirt junior. He has gotten a bit better but if you compare his stats from last year to this, the biggest development appears to be the fact that Brunk got hurt and his minutes have more than doubled. Race gets credit because he is a player that appears to "care" on a team that has a bunch of guys who appear to be going through the motions. Does it really matter in the area of player development how long someone has been with the program? Race has vastly improved his floor game in the last two years. You're right that more minutes should equal higher numbers, but I think we all saw a palpable change in Race's game at the end of last season into this one. 42 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Now, you may think it unfair to knock Miller's development but Phinisee, Durham, Anderson (left program), Green, and Smith and others I am sure I am missing kind of speak to an issue with development IMO. You can disagree if you want but I would say that if development was happening at an acceptable level, we would not be having discussions about his job. Our recruiting has not been elite, but it has not been lower third of the Big Ten. If he even had middling recruits and was developing them, we would be in the middle are of the conference in the standings. We haven't done that since his first year with guys that were almost wholly developed by Tom Crean. I want him to succeed but as time goes on, he is giving less and less reason to believe that he will. And, when he gets year 5 (and he will), if he brings in a slew of transfers and puts together a winning season, he'll still have development issues if the majority of that production comes from transfers IMO. I think the nagging injuries (concussion, hernia, knee) have hurt Rob a little, but he hasn't produced as some, myself included, have wished...I know I sound like a broken record when I talk about Bardo's assessment of Rob, but I think he's spot on saying that if Rob would penetrate more and use his strength to get to the basket, he'd be one of the premier guards in the league. I already think he is on the defensive side of the ball. Anderson was billed as the "shooter" everyone wanted. The problem was, the other parts of his game were so deficient he could never get enough time to show those talents off. CAM can preach things like defense and rebounding, but it's up to the player to work on them. CAM is not going to put an incomplete player out on the floor just for one talent. James Blackmon under Crean comes to mind... Durham has improved, he's just a victim of his physical limitations to me. And he's plagued by inconsistency... Green and Smith? Some things are better left unsaid, but "addition by subtraction" is the phrase that comes to mind. You have to want to improve and understand your own limitations. I think both kids needed to quit thinking the were "finished products" and be more team oriented. My problem with this statement "Our recruiting has not been elite" is that as a fanbase, locking down the Indiana boarders was the priority, and CAM got Romeo (when no one thought he would), TJD, Leal, and Lander. He's started to expand by getting Geronimo and Duncomb. Sure, he's missed on a couple, but I think his recruiting is just fine. His first class was 10th in the nation, and 2nd in the B10. Second was 53rd nationally and 6th in the B10, but the had TJD ranked behind OAD Isaiah Stewart, and OAD that didn't workout Keion Brooks. Who would you rather have? 2020 we had the 15th ranked class Nationally, and again #2 in the B10. I'll give you it's not Kentucky or Duke "elite" but it's pretty damn good. As for next year, at best we have TJD, Race, Joey, Duncomb, Geronimo, and Hunter in the front court, Rob, Stewart, Trey, Anthony, Al, Armaan, and Khristian in the backcourt. At worst we have Race, Geronimo, Hunter, and Duncomb in the frontcourt, and all of the backcourt I mentioned unless Al decides to move on (I can also see a Justin Smith type scenario for Al). I don't know about anybody else, but I'm psyched by that prospect. And I also think some recruits looked at our roster and decided, that with CAM's "get old" philosophy, that would be a hard rotation to crack... This year isn't over...and the next is rosy to me... Just my 2 pennies worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: My problem with this statement "Our recruiting has not been elite" is that as a fanbase, locking down the Indiana boarders was the priority, and CAM got Romeo (when no one thought he would), TJD, Leal, and Lander. He's started to expand by getting Geronimo and Duncomb. Sure, he's missed on a couple, but I think his recruiting is just fine. His first class was 10th in the nation, and 2nd in the B10. Second was 53rd nationally and 6th in the B10, but the had TJD ranked behind OAD Isaiah Stewart, and OAD that didn't workout Keion Brooks. Who would you rather have? 2020 we had the 15th ranked class Nationally, and again #2 in the B10. I'll give you it's not Kentucky or Duke "elite" but it's pretty damn good. So explain how you square that with the idea development is happening. 2 of the years you mentioned we had a Top 3 class in our league and the year we did not, we had a middling class but that class contained the best player on the current team. You are making my case for me. 10, 53, 15 are his class rankings and he is on pace to once again finish in the bottom half of a conference in which his classes were 2, 6, 2 in the conference. How do you square the circle that we are getting good player development when we have finished 6 (nobody recruited by Miller), 8 (with Romeo), 10, and currently 8th when you compare that to the ratings of these classes coming in. You are basically making the argument that in the Big Ten, nobody has done less with more than Archie Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: So explain how you square that with the idea development is happening. 2 of the years you mentioned we had a Top 3 class in our league and the year we did not, we had a middling class but that class contained the best player on the current team. You are making my case for me. 10, 53, 15 are his class rankings and he is on pace to once again finish in the bottom half of a conference in which his classes were 2, 6, 2 in the conference. How do you square the circle that we are getting good player development when we have finished 6 (nobody recruited by Miller), 8 (with Romeo), 10, and currently 8th when you compare that to the ratings of these classes coming in. You are basically making the argument that in the Big Ten, nobody has done less with more than Archie Miller. First class Romeo- In the NBA Rob- A starting guard. The best on the ball defender we have. Career hampered by injuries. Jerome-Leg issue first year. Not confident last year. Improving this year on both sides of the ball Anderson- Transferred...Not enough PT Forrester- Transferred...Not enough PT So out of the 2 that are still here, I think injuries have taken their toll, but there has been progress...Maybe not enough for some, and as I said, I expect more out of Rob, but I do see progress... Second Class TJD Armaan I think we can safely say both have made progress in their respective games... And this years freshman class, isn't it a bit early to assess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 52 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: So explain how you square that with the idea development is happening. 2 of the years you mentioned we had a Top 3 class in our league and the year we did not, we had a middling class but that class contained the best player on the current team. You are making my case for me. 10, 53, 15 are his class rankings and he is on pace to once again finish in the bottom half of a conference in which his classes were 2, 6, 2 in the conference. How do you square the circle that we are getting good player development when we have finished 6 (nobody recruited by Miller), 8 (with Romeo), 10, and currently 8th when you compare that to the ratings of these classes coming in. You are basically making the argument that in the Big Ten, nobody has done less with more than Archie Miller. I've made this argument previously. People say he's recruiting fine as shown by the rankings of the classes. I can accept that (although I don't think the rankings tell the whole story). They also say his development is fine. I'm with you on this one. Yet they never answer how, if he's recruiting better than anyone in the B1G and his player development is just fine, IU continues to fall in the B1G standings under him. To them it's not coaching and not the players. I guess just bad luck? When push comes to shove they do end up blaming the players and not the coach. "Coach can't make the shots for them." "They just didn't execute the play that was drawn up." Et cetera, et cetera. It's the coach's job to bring in players who can play and execute at the B1G level. It's the coach's job to teach them (i.e. coach them) on how to play and execute at the B1G level. If the players can't motivate themselves before games, it's the coach's job to find a way to motivate them. Even well coached teams will have games where they can't hit shots, seem out of sync and aren't executing well, and/or seem tired and unmotivated. Those should be rare, maybe a few games in a season. IU under Miller looks like that more often than not. So he's either failing at evaluating and bringing in the proper talent to win, failing to coach that talent, or failing to prepare and motivate them for actual games. Possibly a combination of those at varying degrees. I would also point out that he's had plenty of unused scholarships. Those could've been used on grad transfers to shore up deficiencies or bring in a player as a backup in case of injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: First class Romeo- In the NBA Rob- A starting guard. The best on the ball defender we have. Career hampered by injuries. Jerome-Leg issue first year. Not confident last year. Improving this year on both sides of the ball Anderson- Transferred...Not enough PT Forrester- Transferred...Not enough PT So out of the 2 that are still here, I think injuries have taken their toll, but there has been progress...Maybe not enough for some, and as I said, I expect more out of Rob, but I do see progress... Second Class TJD Armaan I think we can safely say both have made progress in their respective games... And this years freshman class, isn't it a bit early to assess? Agree to disagree. What is TJD doing appreciably better now than last year? That guy came in pretty good but he still is one handed and can't hit jumpers. Those were the knocks on him last year. I don't want to get into a rundown where we are picking apart every kid's game, so I am going to stop there. However, when people were complaining about results the past few years, we were told a guy needs four to five years. Now that we are in year four and things are still not panning out, we get excuses. At some point, the guy has to win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said: What is TJD doing appreciably better now than last year? 7 ppg more than he did last year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, IUFLA said: 7 ppg more than he did last year... Last year 29.3 mpg, this year 34.0. Last year 56.6 FG%, this year 53.5%. Outside of those stats, almost everything else is similar to last year. So do you think it is an improvement to his game or something he is doing now that did not happen last year that accounts for the points or is it more likely his scoring is up because of Brunk's injury giving him an additional 5 minutes a game to score? I tend to think it is the latter but reasonable minds can disagree on that I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Last year 29.3 mpg, this year 34.0. Last year 56.6 FG%, this year 53.5%. Outside of those stats, almost everything else is similar to last year. So do you think it is an improvement to his game or something he is doing now that did not happen last year that accounts for the points or is it more likely his scoring is up because of Brunk's injury giving him an additional 5 minutes a game to score? I tend to think it is the latter but reasonable minds can disagree on that I think. Bingo! Still no right hand or jump shot to speak of either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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