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Geronimo - Killer Instinct


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2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Was talking a while back with @BGleas about how the team has been lacking that guy with a killer instinct. We have and have had plenty of talent, we have a beast in TJD, etc. but the raw I'll-get-in-your-face guy, the guy whose energy and will say I am going to close you out, has been missing.

Geronimo looks to have it. Just love his look after this throw-down, says it all.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=30756784&ex_cid=espnapi_internal

And a nice article from IDS -- https://www.idsnews.com/article/2021/01/iu-iowa-basketball-upset-geronimo

 

 

He reminds me a lot of a mini Thomas Bryant. I have been looking for Archie to use him more. He's one guy who should just play with reckless abandonment, not worry too much about fouling, and not be overly concerned with taking/making outside shots. Basically do what he did last night, every game. He seems like a good guy to put in against bigger, slower guys, almost like what Fife would do. Just agitate them and make them work hard. Garza lost steam in the second half, and JG was a big reason why. The smaller lineup was also affective against PU and a good lineup to go to when things aren't clicking; it basically forces the guards to move and be involved in the offense. I love TJD, but when he's the one and only option, the offense seems to slow down. I think Archie needs to use TJD as a decoy more often or take him out a little bit more. 

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42 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

 I think Archie needs to use TJD as a decoy more often or take him out a little bit more. 

After last night....maybe he will now. That's why his play last night was so important; it gives CAM a reason to play him more minutes, which gives us a little more diversity. Plus, it may be nice to not have 2 post players crowding the lane. 

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All right.  I just have to say it.  Hear me out.  I am not arguing how exciting it was to see a glimpse of his potential.  He was huge vs Iowa and no way we win without what he did with Race and TJD in foul trouble.  Okay, but so many people run wild with one good game by a guy.  First it was Race.  People acted like he was going to average 20 and 10 after his one goo game.  He has been solid, but it was a little overblown.  Then it was Galloway.  He's been good, but nowhere near what people have started giving him credit for.  Next was Hunter.  There are glimpses, but people keep acting like he is an elite scorer.  Now we are comparing Geronimo to Vic and OG.  Don't get me wrong, I get why those are pretty good hopes for JG, but let's maybe settle down a bit to see where he goes in the next few games?  I know.  I'm a downer.  It's tough being a fan like me.    

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1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

All right.  I just have to say it.  Hear me out.  I am not arguing how exciting it was to see a glimpse of his potential.  He was huge vs Iowa and no way we win without what he did with Race and TJD in foul trouble.  Okay, but so many people run wild with one good game by a guy.  First it was Race.  People acted like he was going to average 20 and 10 after his one goo game.  He has been solid, but it was a little overblown.  Then it was Galloway.  He's been good, but nowhere near what people have started giving him credit for.  Next was Hunter.  There are glimpses, but people keep acting like he is an elite scorer.  Now we are comparing Geronimo to Vic and OG.  Don't get me wrong, I get why those are pretty good hopes for JG, but let's maybe settle down a bit to see where he goes in the next few games?  I know.  I'm a downer.  It's tough being a fan like me.    

All of the speculation is based on potential, and people like to create a baseline. Nothing wrong with that.

@Hoosierhoopster makes the point Jordan isn't just an "athlete" who plays basketball, and I agree with that. I think where he and I locked up is how developed those skills are for the rigors of the B1G, and especially within the framework of the way his coach teaches the game on both ends of the floor.

Thursday I saw that not only Jordan, but Khristian as well, are getting that, and that encouraged me beyond belief. I think Anthony and Trey already got it, but in early games, Jordan and Khristian were both more following their basketball instincts rather that what Archie wanted them to do. I saw Khristian start to swing into 2 3 point shots only to fake and pass the ball back out. Small stuff but it showed me he's grasping it. Playing for the team and listening to his coaches rather than trying to make an individual play...

Of course, what do I know...

 

 

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It’s often all about development, we’re talking guys just out of high school. The question there is how they develop and in that, what’s best for them and the team. Where people disagree and often reasonably is on whether the coach’s approach is best or not, or benefits the team best. 

I don’t want to sidetrack this thread by turning it back into an argument about cam, but I’ve had a problem for some time with how I see cam limiting the growth of players who can (I believe) help the team more by giving them more run sooner rather than later, helping their development by playing them more, or more consistently, earlier in the season so that by mid-season they are impacting the win column, rather than yanking them off the floor and playing them 2 or whatever minutes, which just doesn’t (I believe) help either them or the team, and can kill rather than improve their confidence. If we argue about it turns into a chicken or the egg discussion.

Hunter plays more and in more important minutes and shows the scoring he can bring, helps spread the floor and we score better as a team because of it. Very first game Jordan plays real minutes he shuts down one of the best players in the country, shows poise and positioning within the offense and adds some huge buckets. Was it just that all the time he wasn’t playing he was improving in practice and that allowed him to shine when he got to play, or was he already capable and the floor time, along with his practice time, allowed him to show? Vic never would have gotten the early development Crean gave him, which was partly driven by how weak the team was when Vic came in. Imagine Vic not playing under cam. 

POY coming in, Jordan already had game, practice and learning the system is absolutely necessary, he was lost at times, in limited minutes, but actual game time is also necessary. End of the day I believe in the way Izzo (as just one examp) grows his players and team early by pushing game play, even when they lose early. I have a problem with the way Cam limits some guys - my opinion, that is how I see it.

But that’s all background stuff. Jordan is turning into a really good player, and he’s shown the promise in his game of what he can do. Absolutely looking forward to watching him continue to develop.

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8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It’s often all about development, we’re talking guys just out of high school. The question there is how they develop and in that, what’s best for them and the team. Where people disagree and often reasonably is on whether the coach’s approach is best or not, or benefits the team best. 

I don’t want to sidetrack this thread by turning it back into an argument about cam, but I’ve had a problem for some time with how I see cam limiting the growth of players who can (I believe) help the team more by giving them more run sooner rather than later, helping their development by playing them more, or more consistently, earlier in the season so that by mid-season they are impacting the win column, rather than yanking them off the floor and playing them 2 or whatever minutes, which just doesn’t (I believe) help either them or the team, and can kill rather than improve their confidence. If we argue about it turns into a chicken or the egg discussion.

Hunter plays more and in more important minutes and shows the scoring he can bring, helps spread the floor and we score better as a team because of it. Very first game Jordan plays real minutes he shuts down one of the best players in the country, shows poise and positioning within the offense and adds some huge buckets. Was it just that all the time he wasn’t playing he was improving in practice and that allowed him to shine when he got to play, or was he already capable and the floor time, along with his practice time, allowed him to show? Vic never would have gotten the early development Crean gave him, which was partly driven by how weak the team was when Vic came in. Imagine Vic not playing under cam. 

POY coming in, Jordan already had game, practice and learning the system is absolutely necessary, he was lost at times, in limited minutes, but actual game time is also necessary. End of the day I believe in the way Izzo (as just one examp) grows his players and team early by pushing game play, even when they lose early. I have a problem with the way Cam limits some guys - my opinion, that is how I see it.

But that’s all background stuff. Jordan is turning into a really good player, and he’s shown the promise in his game of what he can do. Absolutely looking forward to watching him continue to develop.

I think this is the crux of what is  really not a very divergent view of CAM. 

You, being an NBA fan, and me, who prefers a more rigid approach to the game, I think can both see the other's side. And to be honest, I'm sure Archie will give those kids more freedom in coming years, while still making them adhere to his basic plan...

I know the Isiah/Knight argument, but RMK, I think, knew he had a HOF caliber player early on. He eventually loosened the reins, but not before letting Thomas know how he thought the game should be played.

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There was a moment in the game when TJD was explaining or instructing Geronimo about something.  The look in his eyes was very focused and you could tell he was processing what was being said.  A lot of times when a coach or someone tells a player something, they look like they're thinking "yeah, ok, I get it.  Let me go now".  I believe he, like many of our players, has been a very good student academically and it definitely showed in that moment.

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9 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

There was a moment in the game when TJD was explaining or instructing Geronimo about something.  The look in his eyes was very focused and you could tell he was processing what was being said.  A lot of times when a coach or someone tells a player something, they look like they're thinking "yeah, ok, I get it.  Let me go now".  I believe he, like many of our players, has been a very good student academically and it definitely showed in that moment.

I remember that...

I also heard TJD's words after the game saying how proud he was of Jordan...Heartened by that...These kids like each other and pull for one another...right at the beginning...

 

 

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3 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

All right.  I just have to say it.  Hear me out.  I am not arguing how exciting it was to see a glimpse of his potential.  He was huge vs Iowa and no way we win without what he did with Race and TJD in foul trouble.  Okay, but so many people run wild with one good game by a guy.  First it was Race.  People acted like he was going to average 20 and 10 after his one goo game.  He has been solid, but it was a little overblown.  Then it was Galloway.  He's been good, but nowhere near what people have started giving him credit for.  Next was Hunter.  There are glimpses, but people keep acting like he is an elite scorer.  Now we are comparing Geronimo to Vic and OG.  Don't get me wrong, I get why those are pretty good hopes for JG, but let's maybe settle down a bit to see where he goes in the next few games?  I know.  I'm a downer.  It's tough being a fan like me.    

I think you're way overblowing peoples reactions to good games from some of these guys. Literally nobody acted like Race was going to average 20 and 10. I think most felt if his improved jumper (which has disappeared after the first few games) was real he could be an 11 and 7 guy or something like that, where part of the 11 was from hitting some jumpers and spreading the floor for other guys. His numbers actually aren't that far off, it's just that his jumper has disappeared. 

I don't remember the Hunter hype at all. He's been one of the most criticized guys on here. 

Galloway I can give you, I was part of hyping him up, and to be honest I don't think he's far off from being a really important player. When people were hyping him he was hitting his 3-point shot at a level that wasn't good, but enough to keep people honest so his drive and playmaking could still be effective. His coming back down to earth was when he stopped making any 3-point shots. 

 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I think you're way overblowing peoples reactions to good games from some of these guys. Literally nobody acted like Race was going to average 20 and 10. I think most felt if his improved jumper (which has disappeared after the first few games) was real he could be an 11 and 7 guy or something like that, where part of the 11 was from hitting some jumpers and spreading the floor for other guys. His numbers actually aren't that far off, it's just that his jumper has disappeared. 

I don't remember the Hunter hype at all. He's been one of the most criticized guys on here. 

Galloway I can give you, I was part of hyping him up, and to be honest I don't think he's far off from being a really important player. When people were hyping him he was hitting his 3-point shot at a level that wasn't good, but enough to keep people honest so his drive and playmaking could still be effective. His coming back down to earth was when he stopped making any 3-point shots. 

 

Fair enough.  We can agree to disagree on this one.  I feel like I saw people going very overboard on Hunter and Thompson.  

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20 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

Fair enough.  We can agree to disagree on this one.  I feel like I saw people going very overboard on Hunter and Thompson.  

Yes we can. All good. I just don't think people thought our two bigs were going to average a combined 40 and 20. I don't remember that happening on the board. HH has been very vocal about Hunter getting more opportunity to shoot, and some have agreed, but that's all the "blowing up" of Hunter I've seen this year.

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6 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

All right.  I just have to say it.  Hear me out.  I am not arguing how exciting it was to see a glimpse of his potential.  He was huge vs Iowa and no way we win without what he did with Race and TJD in foul trouble.  Okay, but so many people run wild with one good game by a guy.  First it was Race.  People acted like he was going to average 20 and 10 after his one goo game.  He has been solid, but it was a little overblown.  Then it was Galloway.  He's been good, but nowhere near what people have started giving him credit for.  Next was Hunter.  There are glimpses, but people keep acting like he is an elite scorer.  Now we are comparing Geronimo to Vic and OG.  Don't get me wrong, I get why those are pretty good hopes for JG, but let's maybe settle down a bit to see where he goes in the next few games?  I know.  I'm a downer.  It's tough being a fan like me.    

You’re exaggerating.  No one that I’ve ever seen has said Race is a 20 and 10 guy.  I think you’re misinterpreting what people are saying.  Race is a damn good player and it’s not because he is going to get 20 and 10.  He scored one point the other day and played really well.   You’re a coach. So obviously you can see the little things.  Points and rebounds are what the most casual fans can understand.  A coach is at a level that is way past that.  Race is a guy who is tough, makes the right play, brings a physical presence defensively and does his job really well.  He is very tough to move off his spot.  He’s frustrated guys much bigger.  He is in no way the problem.  He is a big part of the solution.  
 

I will tell you this.  There isn’t a single opponent we have that is happy to see Race in the game.   You’re a good poster but you’re way off track here with what people are saying.   

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1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

You’re exaggerating.  No one that I’ve ever seen has said Race is a 20 and 10 guy.  I think you’re misinterpreting what people are saying.  Race is a damn good player and it’s not because he is going to get 20 and 10.  He scored one point the other day and played really well.   You’re a coach. So obviously you can see the little things.  Points and rebounds are what the most casual fans can understand.  A coach is at a level that is way past that.  Race is a guy who is tough, makes the right play, brings a physical presence defensively and does his job really well.  He is very tough to move off his spot.  He’s frustrated guys much bigger.  He is in no way the problem.  He is a big part of the solution.  
 

I will tell you this.  There isn’t a single opponent we have that is happy to see Race in the game.   You’re a good poster but you’re way off track here with what people are saying.   

I' not denying any of that about Race.  Yes, for you and BGleas, I was exaggerating.  Believe it or not, some people do that on this board sometimes!  My point is that some people were actually saying some pretty crazy things about how great he was and how great he will be.  I also feel that some posters were giving Hunter a ton of credit after one game of making a couple 3s.  That's all I'm saying.  Both guys have potential.  Race has improved a lot.  Hunter, maybe?  Galloway has been fun to watch at times.  Geronimo just gave us a nice game and a reason to hope for more.  Just not ready to compare him to Vic or OG.  Not ready to say he is a "killer."  Not ready to say he is an extremely skilled player.  That's all I'm saying.   

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17 hours ago, addictedtoIU said:

Is it just me or anyone here thought Geronimo looked taller than 6'6"? He really looked like 6'8" with good amount of muscles. I think he can play bully ball against a lot of college kids. 

He still looks shorter than Race to me. He’s still probably 6’6 or maybe 6’7. He just has really long arms which allows him to play bigger on the court.

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5 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

So I'm about to start arguing with Scott about why Galloway won't be Pistol Pete and HH why Race won't be the Dream.  IUFLA - can you tell me that Hunter is gonna be a superstar so we can get this thing going?

Hunter will be the next Alex English

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