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Getting over the Hump


jojo123
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We have all seen the close calls with this Hoosier team and how we just don't quite have enough to get us over the hump in close games. We  don't have one player good enough to make the difference needed. The all around go to guy. 

We have Trace who is a definite go to guy in the post but push him ten feet from the bucket and all bets are out the window. We don't have that go to guy on the outside. one that will make all defenses plan for the outside shot. making us one dimensional equals close loses.

Trace is a great inside go to man, that gets the most out of his ability  but as I said push him ten feet from the bucket and all bets are out the window and unfortunately the free throw line is further then ten feet. Equals close loses.   

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Exactly. We don’t necessarily even need a great 3pt shooter either (although that would be certainly be nice to spot up). Let’s be real...we need a Romeo as well as Trayce. You want to see us be an elite team add Romeo to it and suddenly we are playing for a B1G championship. It’s what we keep saying we need that other high level 5* caliber stud. You need a couple of those guys not just 1. Surround them with a good core and you got something. How different would we be with a starting lineup of TJD, Race, Romeo, Armaan, Rob with Al/Hunter and freshman only getting spot minutes. Then you got a guy besides Armaan that can take his man off the dribble and get a bucket on his own. Plus we know we shoot 3s much better when we can just set our feet and spot up.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Exactly. We don’t necessarily even need a great 3pt shooter either (although that would be certainly be nice to spot up). Let’s be real...we need a Romeo as well as Trayce. You want to see us be an elite team add Romeo to it and suddenly we are playing for a B1G championship. It’s what we keep saying we need that other high level 5* caliber stud. You need a couple of those guys not just 1. Surround them with a good core and you got something. How different would we be with a starting lineup of TJD, Race, Romeo, Armaan, Rob with Al/Hunter and freshman only getting spot minutes. Then you got a guy besides Armaan that can take his man off the dribble and get a bucket on his own. Plus we know we shoot 3s much better when we can just set our feet and spot up.

This. You need at least two studs. You need a Zeller and Oladipo, you need a Yogi and Thomas Bryant. Archie has had Langford and then TJD, he's never had Langford and TJD. We all had hoped Lander would be that, but given how young he is, he clearly isn't ready for that.

I keep saying this, but the difference between IU and Illinois this year is simply Ayo stayed 3 years and Langford was a 1 and done. I personally think Archie is a much better coach than Underwood, Underwood just got lucky that Cockburn stayed 2 years and Ayo 3. So much of this is luck, maybe Archie gets lucky and TJD stays a 3rd year. But, he needs to get a "Langford" to go with him. 

But to your larger point, you need at least 2 studs, and at least one of them needs to be a guard/wing. 

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Look at most of the top teams in college basketball every year. They usually have dominant guard play. We haven’t had that since Yogi graduated and it shows on the court. 
 

Rob is a great defender, and Al has exceeded his high school ranking but neither are dominant offensive players. When they play well our team honestly looks very good and can hang with most teams. I’m encouraged that Armaan can become that player because he seeks the moment and is aggressive on offense. 

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

This. You need at least two studs. You need a Zeller and Oladipo, you need a Yogi and Thomas Bryant. Archie has had Langford and then TJD, he's never had Langford and TJD. We all had hoped Lander would be that, but given how young he is, he clearly isn't ready for that.

I keep saying this, but the difference between IU and Illinois this year is simply Ayo stayed 3 years and Langford was a 1 and done. I personally think Archie is a much better coach than Underwood, Underwood just got lucky that Cockburn stayed 2 years and Ayo 3. So much of this is luck, maybe Archie gets lucky and TJD stays a 3rd year. But, he needs to get a "Langford" to go with him. 

But to your larger point, you need at least 2 studs, and at least one of them needs to be a guard/wing. 

All day long and very true. Especially on Underwood. His best move this entire year was something he had no control over and that was Covid. Ayo/Cockburn were gone. Almost feels similar to some of Bo Ryan's teams where he had really good players but they would all return for another year of college instead of jumping to the pros like we've experienced so often. 

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4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The good news is, the potential for that is already on the roster in Parker Stewart and Khristian Lander. 

 

Agreed. Lander has elite ability to break his man down off the dribble...and Stewart has some shake and bake to his game too...albeit more to free himself up for his own shot. Armaan is growing in his ability to take his man off the dribble. I’m afraid the roster has passed Rob by. Can’t see him starting next year and is why I could see him as a strong candidate for a transfer honestly.

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5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Agreed. Lander has elite ability to break his man down off the dribble...and Stewart has some shake and bake to his game too...albeit more to free himself up for his own shot. Armaan is growing in his ability to take his man off the dribble. I’m afraid the roster has passed Rob by. Can’t see him starting next year and is why I could see him as a strong candidate for a transfer honestly.

That could be one of the issues. The roster has a couple guys that are great backups for a really, really good team, but will they be willing to either move to that role or stay in it?

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That’s not really fair though, the whole we’re just waiting for next season thing. It just isn’t. What if Brunk hadn’t been knocked out of the season? That alone would have us win at least a couple we’ve lost, and you can’t put that on CAM. Yes, we need an elite guard, but just having the actual team we have with Brunk would make us better. That’s just bad luck.

I’m not writing this season off yet. That said, do think we should take a jump up if TJD comes back (as of now looks like he will). Lander is going to be a lot more productive next season, with the full summer, the experience of this season, and finally his age - body will be that of an incoming frosh. Hunter has already been gradually starting to show at the level he was showing promise of as a frosh, he’ll be better and can score well from outside. Guys like Leal and Galloway are going to be significantly better as sophs and are already proving their worth. Franklin could be really, really good. It’s just not oh let’s wait until next year hopefully we’ll be better, it’s that we have a too young point guard, we lost Brunk, and the young guys we have, CAM’s recruits are getting better and showing a ton of promise. 

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15 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That’s not really fair though, the whole we’re just waiting for next season thing. It just isn’t. What if Brunk hadn’t been knocked out of the season? That alone would have us win at least a couple we’ve lost, and you can’t put that on CAM. Yes, we need an elite guard, but just having the actual team we have with Brunk would make us better. That’s just bad luck.

I’m not writing this season off yet. That said, do think we should take a jump up if TJD comes back (as of now looks like he will). Lander is going to be a lot more productive next season, with the full summer, the experience of this season, and finally his age - body will be that of an incoming frosh. Hunter has already been gradually starting to show at the level he was showing promise of as a frosh, he’ll be better and can score well from outside. Guys like Leal and Galloway are going to be significantly better as sophs and are already proving their worth. Franklin could be really, really good. It’s just not oh let’s wait until next year hopefully we’ll be better, it’s that we have a too young point guard, we lost Brunk, and the young guys we have, CAM’s recruits are getting better and showing a ton of promise. 

Agree with this analysis.  I think as you do that CAM was too slow in getting the FR acclimated to the game which could only help when we have someone go down with injury ala AF.  

Whether we like it or not, this team is a "50/50" team as currently constructed and our record shows this to be true.  When we play as a team, move the ball, and hit open shots we can play with anyone in the country and beat them. However, there is little room for error.

For better or worse, this year we will only go as far as RP takes us barring some miraculous improvement in Landers game.  I don't like to call out single players, but RP simply hasn't progressed as this team has needed to consistently be very good.  We win when RP has a good night and we lose if he has another of his disappearing acts.  To me he his game and confidence are established early.  If he hits his 3's early, we seem to do well. His confidence is up and his entire demeanor as player is what we need.  On the other hand, if he misses his first few shots or begins with a TO, his confidence deflates and he melts into the court with banal play.  

So as not to pick on one person, TJD has too often displayed similar attitude problems.  Loafs down the court getting back on D on misses or missed opportunities.  And man I wish he would CONSISTENTLY go the rim with authority.  I just can't stand the floaters and prayers he throws up trying to get fouled.  He should be shooting 500 FT's a day like AL and his 3's to get his FT % in the 70's.  That alone would have won some games as close as our losses have been.

I still see progress in this team.  I still think CAM figures this out.  And let's not forget CAM himself has had his own learning curve to navigate.  This is his first tenure as a P5 head coach.  No one has talked much about that aspect.  We are watching the HC and the team slowly progress over time.  It has been too slow for most fans liking but still I see continued movement in the right direction for now. 

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I agree with you @Hoosierhoopster and we share really the same thoughts. But, you have to be able to secure your home floor and especially against the lower half of the conference. Even now minus Brunk. That’s just in his job description.

If I remember correctly, CAM mentioned ‘slow down’ or something similar. I don’t understand that thought. If we are a team struggling to shoot and we already have defense locked down, why not speed the game up and hope for more transition points?

What I see when watching this squad since Miller arrived is something similar to a Bennet coached team but with tons more errors. If your a low scoring team, why not speed the game up and give yourself a chance at more offensive possessions. 

My thoughts of getting over the hump given what I’ve seen so far is going to be of course better guard play but also speed the game up as much as you can. Throw a few full court defensive presses in on occasion and hope to pick up a few points. Stop playing strategy all the time and let some flow happen for peats sake.

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1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Sadly, IU fans have understandably become like Cubs fans for many years. Talking about next year before a season’s half over. 

This has been going on for years.  I went back to some of the prediction treads earlier today, reading what some expected this year, and to be nice. most are way off.  And those are most of the positive posters here.

 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That’s not really fair though, the whole we’re just waiting for next season thing. It just isn’t. What if Brunk hadn’t been knocked out of the season? That alone would have us win at least a couple we’ve lost, and you can’t put that on CAM. Yes, we need an elite guard, but just having the actual team we have with Brunk would make us better. That’s just bad luck.

I’m not writing this season off yet. That said, do think we should take a jump up if TJD comes back (as of now looks like he will). Lander is going to be a lot more productive next season, with the full summer, the experience of this season, and finally his age - body will be that of an incoming frosh. Hunter has already been gradually starting to show at the level he was showing promise of as a frosh, he’ll be better and can score well from outside. Guys like Leal and Galloway are going to be significantly better as sophs and are already proving their worth. Franklin could be really, really good. It’s just not oh let’s wait until next year hopefully we’ll be better, it’s that we have a too young point guard, we lost Brunk, and the young guys we have, CAM’s recruits are getting better and showing a ton of promise. 

By his play TJD should come back but i still feel like he will leave after the year.

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2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

If true then I hope he enjoys playing in the G- league

For millions. He will get drafted and get his big contract and he will get personal coaches and have all day no school interference to help him improve. He will play better competition then college as well. But I bet he plays nba as well. He moves his feet and can protect the rim. It’s a myth that all nba bigs can shoot. Montrez Harrell, Capella...lots of bigs can’t shoot a lick.

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5 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Sadly, IU fans have understandably become like Cubs fans for many years. Talking about next year before a season’s half over. 

I posted that more so about getting over the hump.  I love Archie.  Love these guys.  But they’re a year away - mainly because the bulk of this team is Freshman and Sophs.     I’m still looking forward to the rest of this season, but next year, given where the B1G is, IU will be very solid if TJD returns. 

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1 minute ago, Bustout said:

I posted that more so about getting over the hump.  I love Archie.  Love these guys.  But they’re a year away - mainly because the bulk of this team is Freshman and Sophs.     I’m still looking forward to the rest of this season, but next year, given where the B1G is, IU will be very solid if TJD returns. 

That’s the thing...Trayce is almost certainly gone. So where does that leave us??? 8th in B1G again?

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