IU Scott Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Feathery said: We were a bubble team last year, a 10 seed by projections. A few midmajor upsets in the tournament and we we’re not in the dance. Myself, I think we make it. But expectations in a down year should be what we make the NCAA as a mid/lower seed. We are a projected 11 seed right now per ESPN. That’s a down year. So 4 down years out of 4 have been down. At some point ya gotta think this is just who Archie is as a coach? Actually the mid major tournaments were pretty much over by the time the big ten tournament started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathery Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Everyone likes to cheer for a winning team. I love seeing IU win. But, losing isn't the end of the world. I have been an IU fan since 1964. Seen the highest of the highs, and the lowest of the lows. But I'm appreciative of what every kids who has put on that uniform has done. I love seeing the older players, and that one old coach come back so they can see what they mean to IU fans, and how they've played a part in our lives... Win or lose... That's what I'm in it for... As for a timeline for "success" it'll be defined different ways by different people, but I've already gone on record as saying if we're still middle-lower tier B1G at the end of next year, a change might be in order... But, until then, In Archie I Trust... Fair enough and good point of view. Which brings us to our impasse. We just view it differently. I grew up watching IU basketball with my grandfather in the late 80’s and 90’s. My memories of IU basketball start in the early 90’s though. Calbert and Bailey set a high bar (could have hung a banner of Henderson was healthy). To me it’s about winning. I don’t need IU to be ranked #1 yearly. But I do want them at the top of the conference consistently. A bad year should be like Bo Ryan Wisconsin, no worse than 5th. A good year is winning the conference and having a legit shot at a final four. I’ve been in Assembly Hall when it was rocking and full. And I’ve seen the malaise of apathetic crowds at the end of the Crean tenure. Success breeds revenue from an athletic department point of view. But on court success breeds recruiting success which breeds more on court success. It’s a cycle once started that can be sustained for a generation. Look at Coach K, Cal, Self, Boeheim, Izzo. Which is part of the reason why I value winning more than the journey. Can Archie turn it around? Sure. Are there pieces in place? Yes. Am I and many other fans frustrated by the lack of progress compared to the other teams in conference? Absolutely. Has the team improved in comparison to itself, while not improving much in conference? Yes. We are a TJD decision away from 5 years of mediocrity or a breakout year. See Illinois and Ayo this year. But I have concerns with only having 1 freshmen coming in that even after TJD goes pro, what does the team look like. Even if it’s after TJD’s junior season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 21 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Everyone likes to cheer for a winning team. I love seeing IU win. But, losing isn't the end of the world. I have been an IU fan since 1964. Seen the highest of the highs, and the lowest of the lows. But I'm appreciative of what every kids who has put on that uniform has done. I love seeing the older players, and that one old coach come back so they can see what they mean to IU fans, and how they've played a part in our lives... Win or lose... That's what I'm in it for... As for a timeline for "success" it'll be defined different ways by different people, but I've already gone on record as saying if we're still middle-lower tier B1G at the end of next year, a change might be in order... But, until then, In Archie I Trust... To piggy back on this, some people are intentionally sticking their heads in the sand when they act as if there hasn't been any progress towards winning. Year 1 - no postseason Year 2 - NIT Year 3 - NCAA most likely Year 4 - TBD, let's see how it plays out Year 5 - looks promising on paper I completely understand that we all wish things progressed faster than they have, but that's not particularly relevant to who is our coach moving forward. The question about who is our coach moving forward should be about who is the best choice to have get us to where we want to be from this point forward; unless we can get one of those home runs with 100% certainty it seems like giving Archie another year plus to finish what he started makes more sense than pulling the plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: Weren't we, by all accounts I read, going to the tournament last year? Isn't it pretty much consensus that the B1G was the strongest conference, top to bottom both this year and last? Haven't we suffered from a lack of front court depth this year due to Joey Brunk's back, and the subsequent suspension of Jerome Hunter? Haven't we been in every game save 1 (Texas) this year? Haven't we lost in overtime to 3 ranked teams? Didn't we beat Iowa at their place? Haven't we been operating with our second leading scorer out of some of those games and hobbled in others? We play with 2 kids in the backcourt, Rob and Al, who I appreciate but who are too inconsistent to be upper level B1G guards. Al just doesn't have the strength and athleticism, and Rob gives away a lot of height and has confidence issues. Ok, so we've got upgrades in the wings. Franklin has shown he can certainly be an upper level B1G guards. We have the most coveted point guard in the 22 class who gave us an extra freebie year and is developing nicely. And we have a coaches kid coming in that's 6'5 and shot over 40% from three in ACC play as a freshman. These are the upgrades that will push us over the top and have us winning those close games. I see accountability through suspending a player mid season for not protecting his team. I see an offense that produces good shots, and a defense that can be top tier when they're on their game. I see a team that has shot 38%or better in 9 of our last 12 games from three, and has shot over 47% from 3 in the last 3 games. So, yeah...I see us coming together. If the cards fall right and TJD comes back, I see us as one of the favorites in the B1G next year. Regardless, I think our guard play will be better, and we'll be in the race. And this year isn't over yet either. And don't worry about my eggs. They'll be put to good use. Sunny side up or over easy... You raise a lot of good points, as you always do. I’m glad you are positive and bring it to the fore here because I’ve always felt that different posters here are representative of many fans who aren’t posting. I hope you’re right on Archie. I’ve always associated a high degree of intelligence with the top coaches. Knight, K, Lombardi, Popovich, Stevens, Shula, Bill Belichick, et al., all are extremely smart. Since we have hired Archie, I’ve felt he’s smart. It’s a breath of fresh air because, with all due respect, I never felt Crean was particularly smart. Worse, Crean was the guy who thought he was smart but wasn’t, hence the Tommy Naismith type of nicknames. I still think Archie is smart. But there’s a serious disconnect here where we just don’t break through enough in tough situations. I do like what Archie wants to do on both sides of the ball. But, where you and I disagree is the close losses thing. I don’t see that as a plus. As Bill Parcells aptly says, you are what your record says you are. Here, I’d take the position that it’s not a coincidence. You aren’t winning close games for a reason. The Illinois game encapsulates it at some level. It couldn’t have been set up more beautifully. Ayo fouled out and you could argue that was a gift. I mean, the game is sitting there to win. Red flag that you couldn’t pull it out. We are looking at Durham, who is not athletic and lacks a tight handle, trying to create off the dribble up top, while he’s deploying Franklin in the corner to spread out the action. This is the same thought process we suffered through with Romeo, who I always felt needed to be far more empowered with the ball. You’re right, none of us know behind the scenes with the staff, but at some point you have to wonder what Ostrom and Roberts truly bring to the table. Archie probably needs at least one wily basketball savant. We may not see behind the scenes but we see the end product. No, I don’t think Archie is dumb. Far from it. But a veteran coach who’s drawn up smart stuff might do him wonders. It’s working for Juwan at UM. I am still hoping for the best with Archie but there are some red flags. The 2-20 thing against Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan, and Ohio State. Never having beaten Purdue. But it’s not just that. They aren’t reliable against the bottom feeders like Northwestern. If we have a 5-7 point lead, we almost never extend it to 12-14 points. No, it bleeds away and we get tied or fall behind. I like Archie’s approach on both ends of the court, but there are a bunch of nagging things many of us feel at a visceral level. The issues above aren’t necessarily going to change with more time. If he had five stars at every position, the record might mask these issues. Bit when push came to shove in a big game, you’d have to wonder if he has the chops to push the right buttons the way we were confident about with Coach Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 This is a couple years old at this point, but I think this is an interesting graphic: https://twitter.com/hoopvision68/status/1072161035400986624?s=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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